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Nin update..
Remora.Dubont
Server: Remora
Game: FFXI
Posts: 629
By Remora.Dubont 2009-07-21 03:28:03
so far its been 100%...maybe they made it that way to encourage more nin tanking? And it wouldnt mess up merits b/c then theres still the Innin...u need spells with it too which isnt ninja tool expertise so u would need the trait from merits.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4135
By Asura.Artemicion 2009-07-21 03:28:15
Sounds like UO became alot more fun and easier :3
Bahamut.Rumaha
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10000
By Bahamut.Rumaha 2009-07-21 03:29:56
Yea im all sorts of tired lol, so it is 100%? cuz thats pretty sexy
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4135
By Asura.Artemicion 2009-07-21 03:32:11
Now if only this applied to the use of Shirukens too ; ;
Bahamut.Rumaha
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10000
By Bahamut.Rumaha 2009-07-21 03:32:55
Artemicion said: Now if only this applied to the use of Shirukens too ; ; i would*** my pants, lvl throwing, and get a few Koga SHurikens
Shiva.Daimos
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1202
By Shiva.Daimos 2009-07-21 03:33:35
The whole shuriken thing has been the only reason between me and liking nin... I WANT To THROW Dx
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4135
By Asura.Artemicion 2009-07-21 03:36:37
YONIN ACTIVATE!
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Shiva.Daimos
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1202
By Shiva.Daimos 2009-07-21 03:37:47
looks like stan and kyle have same face lol
Remora.Dubont
Server: Remora
Game: FFXI
Posts: 629
By Remora.Dubont 2009-07-21 03:45:07
ok...this enmity increase is FAR from 23..its like..2....seriously. Yonin active enmity +7 from gear...spamming ele enfeebles and vokes..and a war STILL pulls hate from a single hit? I think something is wrong x.x
Shiva.Daimos
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1202
By Shiva.Daimos 2009-07-21 03:57:59
I think its only fully shines in lowman situations. In exp parties it should help you keep hate, but maybe not noticable.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4135
By Asura.Artemicion 2009-07-21 04:00:18
Yeah, I think it would work best in more delicate situations with less fireworks going off all at once. Hard to get significant impact of one JA out of the mess of a full fledged TP burn party going on.
Remora.Dubont
Server: Remora
Game: FFXI
Posts: 629
By Remora.Dubont 2009-07-21 04:01:03
havnt been able to keep hate with it yet..
Lakshmi.Drekien
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 241
By Lakshmi.Drekien 2009-07-21 04:02:58
Rumaha said: Yea im all sorts of tired lol, so it is 100%? cuz thats pretty sexy definitely 100%.. been testing it myself all night
Ramuh.Haseyo
Server: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 22442
By Ramuh.Haseyo 2009-07-21 04:32:45
Don't expect it to be godly. Even Plds have trouble in TP burn parties, especially Colibri.
Server: Kujata
Game: FFXI
Posts: 928
By Kujata.Argettio 2009-07-21 05:16:09
http://www.bluegartrls.com/forum/78660-innin-yonin-enmity-values.html"Yonin starts at +30 and eventually wears at +10 after 5 minutes" "Innin around -20 at start. Currently not enough good data to suggest an amount near the end."
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Server: Garuda
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6310
By Garuda.Wooooodum 2009-07-21 05:17:38
Definitely 100%, yeah. Cast Utsusemi 45 times and it cost me 0 shehei!
I'm guessing that's not how they intended it to work...
Alexander.Syxx
Server: Alexander
Game: FFXI
Posts: 101
By Alexander.Syxx 2009-07-21 06:44:10
since everyone thinks they work in SE and knows how to calculate Emnity.. someone let me know exactly how much emnity is from yonin and how much is from provoke..
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Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2106
By Asura.Xenophire 2009-07-21 06:57:26
I was just in a party in Crawler's Nest with a PLD tank, everything seemed alright. PLD DC'd and we found a NIN. My first thought was, "This should be interesting." The first mob we pulled, hate was everywhere. I asked her if she could use Yonin. Nothing. A couple mobs after, I asked her once again if she could use it. Her reply :
"ACC-(No thanks.)"
I understand how this could be a set back but, with everything that Yonin has on it, you really don't need your physical accuracy to help you keep hate and create enmity. Sure, this can cause problems if you're trying to skill up but, with the newly added boost in Skill Ups for lower and mid levels, this shouldn't be TOO much of a problem, right? I'm a COR, so Hunter's Roll was helping her, too. She finally uses Yonin and already, we found a drastic change in party flow. The BLU was free to self-skillchain when he wanted, and the NIN was still holding hate.
As much as you're sacrificing, NINs, I have to say, Yonin is an extremely useful Job Ability, and I think you all should make full use of it. I'm sure the -Acc can be rather annoying, but there's so much out there to make up for it. (ie : Sushi, Blade/Sword Madrigal, Hunter's Roll, etc.)
Seraph.Saxonn
Server: Seraph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13
By Seraph.Saxonn 2009-07-21 07:14:59
Dubont said: havnt been able to keep hate with it yet.. A bad workman blames his tools...
Server: Kujata
Game: FFXI
Posts: 928
By Kujata.Argettio 2009-07-21 07:56:52
Syxx said: since everyone thinks they work in SE and knows how to calculate Emnity.. someone let me know exactly how much emnity is from yonin and how much is from provoke..
No one here works for SE, a few very clever people spent months testing the hate system. Part 1Part 2Part 3Part 4Part 5Part 6Part 7Part 8Enmity Table, showing all JAs and spells hateAnd to answer you question provoke produces 1 CE and 1800 VE before and additiona enmity effect (gear or merits) (You will need to read the links above to understand the difference between CE and VE)
Server: Ifrit
Game: FFXI
Posts: 142
By Ifrit.Rikiyame 2009-07-21 08:29:23
I spent about four hours last night fighting tough crabs in Boyahda(solo). I was skilling up and was using /RNG, but the -acc on Yonin, not noticeable. I used no food. Spent no tools, although casted.
Server: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 30
By Siren.Yunalie 2009-07-21 08:35:31
Xenophire said: I was just in a party in Crawler's Nest with a PLD tank, everything seemed alright. PLD DC'd and we found a NIN. My first thought was, "This should be interesting." The first mob we pulled, hate was everywhere. I asked her if she could use Yonin. Nothing. A couple mobs after, I asked her once again if she could use it. Her reply :
"ACC-(No thanks.)"
I understand how this could be a set back but, with everything that Yonin has on it, you really don't need your physical accuracy to help you keep hate and create enmity. Sure, this can cause problems if you're trying to skill up but, with the newly added boost in Skill Ups for lower and mid levels, this shouldn't be TOO much of a problem, right? I'm a COR, so Hunter's Roll was helping her, too. She finally uses Yonin and already, we found a drastic change in party flow. The BLU was free to self-skillchain when he wanted, and the NIN was still holding hate.
As much as you're sacrificing, NINs, I have to say, Yonin is an extremely useful Job Ability, and I think you all should make full use of it. I'm sure the -Acc can be rather annoying, but there's so much out there to make up for it. (ie : Sushi, Blade/Sword Madrigal, Hunter's Roll, etc.) you should have told the nin to stop being so fail and learn to use the ele wheel. Yonin + ele wheel at those levels you shouldn't have trouble tanking.
Lakshmi.Rylis
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 129
By Lakshmi.Rylis 2009-07-21 09:00:00
At that level, even if you don't use the ele wheel, you should be able to negate the acc loss with gear and food.. Dorado Sushi would give you some extra enmity, and should damned-near guarantee you hit..
Was tanking last night in Aydeewa Subterrane, and I certainly lost hate here and there, but the WHM was spamming Curaga (II) more than a few times, we had a BRD which made me lose to WS from SAM and DRG now and then..
Even when they drop it back down from 100%, I think a NIN should be able to keep hate (I was doing fine with High Breath Mantle, both pieces of Gothic, and Nokizaru Hakama (+10)) on anything but Colibri. The rest of my slots I filled with acc or eva, and didn't really have much trouble with my acc, and could generally keep up Ni alone. When Kurayami and Hojo landed, I generally had Ni available while I still had 2 shadows left.
I also managed to erase 5 levels worth of Level Sync killing my Ninjutsu (180-198) in an hour-long party.. All for the cost of a tool here and there when I missed Yonin recast.
Cerberus.Atreyu
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2
By Cerberus.Atreyu 2009-07-21 09:49:07
Dubont said: ok...this enmity increase is FAR from 23..its like..2....seriously. Yonin active enmity +7 from gear...spamming ele enfeebles and vokes..and a war STILL pulls hate from a single hit? I think something is wrong x.x It could just be you? I looked at your gears and level, and yea, it may just be you.
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Server: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2215
By Siren.Thoraeon 2009-07-21 09:51:54
if Yonin is 100% Ninja Tool Expertise, then there should be no excuse not to constantly use the E. wheel
Server: Unicorn
Game: FFXI
Posts: 18
By Unicorn.Dragonspight 2009-07-21 09:58:16
Innin is missing something, though: Increased Dual Wield effect. D:
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Fairy.Tbest
Server: Fairy
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5490
By Fairy.Tbest 2009-07-21 09:59:51
Wow.... This makes me want to lvl Nin again... I loved spamming the elemental wheel in pt's. >.>
Server: Unicorn
Game: FFXI
Posts: 18
By Unicorn.Dragonspight 2009-07-21 10:00:34
FFFFF Here comes NIN's maintenance. :<
Fenrir.Thandar
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 405
By Fenrir.Thandar 2009-07-21 10:03:20
Colibri and Greater Colibri is an excuse not to use E Wheel.
Server: Unicorn
Game: FFXI
Posts: 18
By Unicorn.Dragonspight 2009-07-21 10:06:33
Actually, Thandar, I often used the elemental wheel on colibri as a sort of pseudo-stun. They'd absorb it and cast it back at me in the time it took me to recast Ichi. Call me crazy, but I think I'd rather a colibri be spamming the elemental wheel back at me than its normal attacks. Also, has anyone tested the ninjutsu damage increase from Innin? That could be interesting.
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ok after a few hours of playing with it heres the low down.
Yonin: Frankly..it sucks. Too much -acc and not enough enmity+ to make up for it. Better off just straight tanking without it. Besides..it only works of the mob is facing u -.- which most of the time it wont be.
Innin: actually this ja works really well. Was getting close to 4/10 crit average on campaign mobs and I never saw a miss. The Enmity- is quite a bit. 1k Blade: Jin followed by 3 provokes with emnity+7 gear and still didnt get hate from a mnk. Acc+ is a good bit as well id guess close to 10? correct me if im wrong.
All in all i think Innin was a good addition but Yonin is severly broken for a nin that wants to tank well. Too much -acc not enough enmity+ (as said before). Enmity +7 (again from gear) + Yonin with provoke still could not keep hate off of an average geared sam. Also, the acc down must be pretty severe. With Yonin on with full ws gear, Blade:Jin only hit for 50 dmg (wtf...seriously...) but with Innin it hit for almost 900.
Just a bit a info on them incase some of you hadnt had the chance to try them out.
Edit: The evasion boost from Yonin is actually pretty high it seems. Tanking without a SH and still evaded 7/10 attacks from imps.
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