Job Balance?

Circle-jerk around my statements all you want, build strawmen all day long.

None of that changes how much BLU changes a party, I'm only suggesting that its the Haste cap + Really good DPS that makes it a more valuable option than others, especially in pugs when it is unorganized.

Yea you could bring two GEOs, but unless the mob needs Magic damage - They aren't going to do as much damage as another BLU + GEO.

I mean what would nerfing MG do to BLU? All you are is proving how unnecessary it is so then the haste going away would change nothing correct? So why not do it?

Not at all, I just read that Indi-stats were miniscule and posted a reply to that. Keep trying to put my down, it does not add to the argument at all though.

Even in the case of Entrust you are still underestimating how big +25 of a stat is when people literally pay 100m just to gain a +30 boost.

I had a longer reply showing how you're trying pretty hard to save face by acting like we weren't clear in what the discussion topic was, but I see others have already pointed that out for me. And he's still trying to deny it. Give it a rest.

BLU can be used for Teles, though, but it's not the best DD for that NM. Also I said BLU is arguably the best for 2 of 9 fights (Just to help you out a little, by 9 fights I mean the 7 Reisen HELMs, Kirin and WoC), not that it *isn't* for 2 of 9. What are you even talking about anymore.

I have no need to save face, If I wanted to save face I would have never replied. I'm being honest and if it is too hard for you guys to believe then just drop it because you are obviously dead set on bullying me to prove some vague point.

Also I understand that, and what jobs are used strongest for the other 7 fights in terms of DPS?

If need be

I have to put this here to see how unbalanced the game had become. Blu is on the block just because they got several buffs and went from the jack-of-all-trait melee to the master-of-all-trait melee.


If you can find places that an average geared Mnk can be more useful than an average geared Blu, let me know. Cause I can't seem to find it anywhere that matters.

I am 100% on board with these proposed changes. And then see where things fall after that.

On top of that as a balance change I want Haste to start scaling with enhancing magic, so that a RDM with 500+ enhancing offers a full haste cap Haste 2 (45%).

And rework bard entirely as well. Gjallarhorn gives Honor Minne, which will be attune/minne/haste, combined with honor march will cap with haste 1 and mimic MG.

Only issue there would be MG still potentially being required since it would stack with Minne, so maybe make the defense buffs from Honor Minne and MG not stack.

This would allow much greater party configuration options to be made a lot easier and maybe allow the community to get over its obsession with BLU. As well, good BLU's would still be good BLU's, able to do pretty much everything they currently do. Everybody wins.

Oh kid you don't have a clue. I'm flattered that you seem to be kept up at night because of me though. Keep shouting non-stop to merc, I'll just afk all day and get people asking me over you anyway.

<3

Yeah, I can see I started a fire here. As for the RDM being higher tier for solo, that was a mistake on my part. I didn't even realize that RDM wasn't on that list when it should have been.

In the end though, I tend to stay away from hardcore meta players. If people give me ***as a DD because I'm a THF and not BLU (because blu is the only DD in their eyes), then it's best to avoid those people. Meta can turn a person cancerous.

Lastly, it seems there is that bandwagon phase all the time which is now BLU. Seen so many people give up their main jobs to go to BLU that it just makes me shake my head in disgust. Guess that's unavoidable. When will the DRG bandwagon happen I wonder?

I'd give you more ***for afterglowing Mandau, only the worst THF's do that.

(Mine is afterglowed too, but it's the worst gil sink I've made in this game lol)

22 jobs in game, gil is easier than ever to come by and some of us here pour ungodly amounts of time into this game. Just jump on all the damned OP bandwagons and have some fun doing it instead of worrying about how to reinstate some idealistic state of balance that never existed to begin with. This also doubles as the most effective way of getting the dev team's attention. ;)

The lack of diverse end game content is playing a larger role in the perception of imbalance than most of what's been discussed here.

Yeah, definitely wish I didn't revive this topic. All it's going to do is get a bunch of trolls attacking me and others when I was merely making an opinion. No one has the common decency to actually discuss like this mature human beings rather than just make petty pokes to get their point across. Best to just stop at this point.

Nahhhh real THFs afterglow mandau too :p Da poison proc and melee dps for amnesia!

Speaking of the worst gil sink, in 2012 I spent one *** year doing dyna, doing absolutely nothing else on my char except log on, dyna, log off like a 2nd job for a gun that cost 450m to 600m and adds nothing to dps nor the job except more qd dmg.

THAT is the worst timesink and time investment in my life ever. I just hit a jackpot after ws revamp.

Because this is the nature of tier list, in game or irl. When you presented opinions that hinted certain things or choices are inferior, how can you not anger people.

Regardless, it shouldn't come down to menial put downs. I welcome anyone's opinion to defend their case as it will open my eyes to another spectrum.

Doing stuff like "you're the worst thf in ffxi cause you use mandau", "get good bro", or "jump on the bandwagon and play the meta like everyone else or you're an idiot", etc. are terrible rebuttals. Gets old hearing those empty put downs. At least if you're going to bring out criticism, at least make it constructive. It's bad enough I have to listen to that crap in game from several people.

Did you miss the part where I said I had an AG Mandau?

I read that part but it's hard to tell if you're being sarcastic or if you were being serious at putting me down. I honestly don't know you at all. I apologize if I came off harsh but I didn't know what context you were throwing at me as it felt like a personal attack. Sorry about that.

It was the first 119-3 weapon I had. But I'm also serious that it was a waste of gil. It literally sits in my storage. My Idris-121 has been a better expense of gil, and I don't even know if anyone else did that upgrade...lol

So the answer is...both, I suppose.

*backreads*
I'm not getting into who is right and who is wrong, but it looks some people don't even understand that blu can't get all its highest traits and best spells at the same time without sacrificing things.

These two posts are really hypocritical.
Many people have presented educated and informed counterpoints. And just cause a lot of people disagree with you it doesn't mean they're bullying you, or trolling you, or are even angry.
So *** conceited.

It's not even a matter of me being wrong. If I'm wrong, just show your case and I'll respect your opinion. I didn't say everyone was being a troll to me but there were some questionable posts (i.e. Ladyofhonor, etc) but that was a misunderstanding and we cleared that up.

That doesn't make me conceited. If I was conceited, I would tell everyone that my opinion was fact and that everyone else's opinion is invalid. That's being conceited/arrogant.

This part. It assumes everyone but you can't discuss things, which is not only false but conceited as well.

Yes, I agree. That should of been worded differently as it doesn't apply to all people. That was me generalizing which I shouldn't have done and I respect you pointing that out. Thank you.

I mean this thread is about job balance, if there is any place for people to express their opinions about how they think the game should be balanced it should be here. This is the best place to have this type of discussion. Heated or not, we all have the best interest of the game in our minds.

That being said, our talks of balance will never reach the ears of SE nor will they most likely ever happen. It is just musings at this point, which is why it makes it more confusing how people are taking personal offense to nerfs suggested here.

With that being said instead of nerfing BLU in general why not just make the other options of UL more viable so that way they need to make an active choice, just my two cents from a few "drive-to-work" thoughts:

1. Change MG - Replace the Haste w/ Atk up, Lower the duration and make it non-stackable with Cocoon / Natures Med (MG > Natures > Cocoon). Duration should be 1:30 to match its counter parts. This way MG still has both offensive and defensive properties and retains its value

2. Lower UL CD to 3 minutes from 5 minutes.


3. Increase the Viability of other UL spells. Either increase their overall strength or increase their utility. Make them options that should be considered so BLU becomes more about the choices they make with what spells they use.


I feel like a change like this would still keep them relatively strong, open up options for other DDs to join the mix since Haste capping would be a support only thing and furthermore it would really keep the BLU theme going of them having to give up certain things to obtain others.

I have no idea how to make the other UL spells better but maybe someone here does.


On the note of "BLU doesn't need changes", "PUGs are stupid", "Make your own parties".

I'm personally not effected by the strength of BLU at all. I play with group of friends in a LS and we will bring w/e to the content we can do. I'm not pushing end-game (The big '9') just yet but I will be and I'm sure our LS will apply the same ideology to doing those fights. I rarely PUG anything so the constant shouts for "BLU onry" do not effect me. I know they effect other players though. Newer players who are really what is going to keep this game going. We can't sit here and base balance on what we see in organized groups and our personal agenda. Getting new people to enjoy the end-game is what is going to keep this game alive.

If john wants to play exclusively DRG and he is just starting he will currently have a hard time finding party space in content where people shout for BLU for the stupidest of things. John will then get extremely discouraged because he is being excluded from end-game content because his preferred job is not meta. John will either quit, get lucky and find an open linkshell or just level up BLU/GEO to get what he wants done. All of those options suck

I agree that BLU isn't required for anything they are shouting for and have spoken against that but I'm also not the one making the PUGs. PUGs will follow the path of least resistance and if you don't change the path every now and then they will always be stale and newer players will feel pressured to play a job they don't even want to play.


That is why I'm arguing that something should be done about BLU in some for or manor. I definitely think that GEO should be next on the list but I think that BRD just needs to be looked at and not really that GEO needs to be nerfed.


Also "King swapping" isn't necessarily ideal in the sense that it will always have a job that is meta for X role, but designing a perfectly balanced game that isn't bland is near impossible to the point I have not seen it done successfully. I think that meta-shifting through content or buffs/nerfs is a much better option than just sitting in the same place and not moving anywhere.

Hope that all made sense, typed that pretty fast.

When it comes to job balance the bigger issue is people lack the ability to play anything in content aside what they are comfortable playing.

I feel bad with the groups that use the usual pld, blu, blu, cor, geo, whm setup. I have even sent people /tell asking why blu? The answer is always the same, "makes the fight faster." Or some variation of the same comment. While it might be true in groups those people have been in, it isn't always the case.

These are the same people that get mad if you ask them how much magical haste will be in the party to help you determine what job to go if you even decide to join them. Yes I inquired about magical haste for a VD ambuscade group the other day, was going to go on drk, the reply was "either join or gtfo, I am not in the mood for this right now." OK well have fun with your 5+ minute clears, I will do something else.

The only jobs I see needing an overall boost would be drg and mnk, everything "CAN" be used in most endgame content. (I still haven't personally ran with r/e/m/a ag mnk or drg. Mnk is so far behind right now that our relic mnk never finished mythic and refused to ag relic, our relic drg switched gears and made r/e/m brd and is working on his aeonic.

Jobs we have used for endgame, pld, whm, rdm, sch, run (Orobo jse gs), blm, geo (one of our geo is idris), cor, bst, drk (we have 3 ag rag/apoc drks one has mythic as well), rng, brd, thf, working on getting a pup I'm shell for tanking, we have a nin in shell we have agreed to see what he can do on various levels even as a mb, we don't have a smn, war, sam, or dnc, but we know how very well they preform and are not opposed to them. Literally the only jobs we frown upon are blu, drg, and mnk. Mostly because you can get far higher dmg running 2 drk and a brd, most blu main in our shell leave due to thinking blu will get them in every fight. We do what we can to get whatever person and job their win and gear, some people are just left behind because they only have a mid tier melee job. The rest we can find use for.

The game is far closer to balanced than people want to believe, it is the downfall of needing to play more than the one job people want to play that makes people think it isn't balanced.

If you use the cookie cutter blu, blu, cor, geo setup, I feel bad for you. The only instance in which you are locked to a specific setup is when you are doing certain helm nms and need to go the sc/mb route.

He made it quite clear that he doesn't do the cookie cutter blu setup. Oh wait, no he didn't. He says blu all day everyday. Oh wait, nvm, he plays with a group of friends that lets him play w/e he wants. IDK anymore. I can't keep track of his flip flopping and lack of reading skills when arguing.

I don't really think Thorva was responding to me but rather the thread in general. That last comment especially had no way to be directed towards me.

But really personal attacks? Flip-flopping? I have yet to flip-flop on my position other than make it more clear about what I mean by something I say. I also made one "mistake" in this whole conversation and it is over the word entrust, and my reply in itself wasn't a mistake just the understood context of my reply was mistaken.

I have no idea what you are even contributing to this conversation anymore. You are just flinging out insults and personal attacks rather than offering valid counter-points to anything others have said.

Please find where I said blu all day, please find where I said I get to play whatever I want. Please find where I use the cookie cut blu setup.

Edit: I think he was talking about me since he quoted me, I was responding in general, not to a specific individual.

I clearly stated the only times you are locked in a set up was for the sc/mb setup. I also said you CAN play what you want in most content, just that my ls frowns on 3 jobs.

I am sorry your reading skills can't keep up with the convo

Think it was a jab at Eli.

Sounds like we need...

JAB BALANCE!

Okay, you can close the thread now.

I was NOT talking about you. How can you you think I was talking about you when I said HE and mentioned nothing you said?