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 Bismarck.Magnuss
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By Bismarck.Magnuss 2012-07-18 10:51:49
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I don't see Of Mice and Men in that list anywhere. That book was hugely important to the shaping of America. Also, Wieland should be on that list as well, considering it was one of the first actual novels ever written on American soil. Also, I'm disappointed to see no Poe or Nabokov, either. It is a thorough list, but it needs more.
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 Cerberus.Kalyna
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By Cerberus.Kalyna 2012-07-18 10:53:23
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Bismarck.Magnuss said: »
I don't see Of Mice and Men in that list anywhere. That book was hugely important to the shaping of America. Also, Wieland should be on that list as well, considering it was one of the first actual novels ever written on American soil. Also, I'm disappointed to see no Poe or Nabokov, either. It is a thorough list, but it needs more.
Shaped America = What made America what it is today. Poe nor Nabokov nor Mice and Men didn't really do anything. (like politically and mentally)

edit: Basically, it's books that shaped America as it is today. Gatsby was about prohibition. Jungle was about how disgusting the meat packing industry was and so on
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By Cerberus.Kalyna 2012-07-18 10:57:06
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What did Poe and Nabokov do to make USA what is is today then? What did they do to make a huge influence on politics?
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By Asura.Dameshi 2012-07-18 10:57:46
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They left out Twilight.
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 Cerberus.Kalyna
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By Cerberus.Kalyna 2012-07-18 11:02:31
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Ramuh.Rowland said: »
Poe raised the American short story to a new level, writing works that completely modernized detective fiction, science fiction, and, of course, the horror story.
That's shaping the world of literature, not America.

edit: and i take my comment back about mice and men. I got that mixed up with a different book for some reason.
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By Bismarck.Magnuss 2012-07-18 11:03:22
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A lot of those books on that list don't fit the criteria, then. What does Huckleberry Finn have to do with politics? Or perhaps the Call of the Wild or the Cat in the Hat? It doesn't have to be political, but how about social? Doesn't that have anything to do with how America is founded? Nabokov helped many authors and people learn to think outside the box, and he even played the part of the antagonist when he put out such an offensive book as Lolita mainly because he wanted to.
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By Cerberus.Kalyna 2012-07-18 11:13:12
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Mag, ever heard of hidden meanings? Go reread those books.
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By Asura.Dameshi 2012-07-18 11:16:44
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They're playing Christmas music on the radio... Please put me out of my misery.
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By Cerberus.Kalyna 2012-07-18 11:19:59
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Asura.Dameshi said: »
They're playing Christmas music on the radio... Please put me out of my misery.

=D
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By Bismarck.Magnuss 2012-07-18 11:21:53
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Lmfao, of course I have. I just don't see how the Cat in the Hat helped to shape the political world. It's about a cat that plays around with kids to make them less bored. It's also an allusion of envy wherein the kids feel they need the help of someone else to remove themselves of boredom rather than relying on themselves and because of it, they have to deal with the faults that come along with it. Simply the book says that you need to rely on yourself to get what you want done. And really it's a great message, but I don't see that changing the political climate, especially when it was written in 1954, a good 9 years after the end of WWII, where we pretty much already declared ourselves a world power.
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By Cerberus.Kalyna 2012-07-18 11:29:37
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In 1955, Dr. Seuss and William Spaulding — director of Houghton Mifflin’s educational division — stepped into the publisher’s elevator. Its operator was Annie Williams, an African-American woman who wore white gloves and a secret smile. Spaulding thought Seuss could solve the Why Johnny Can’t Read crisis by writing a better reading primer. Seuss gave this book’s protagonist Williams’ white gloves, sly smile, and color. The Cat in the Hat is black because Williams and other influences were black. Another source is Krazy Kat, the red-bow-tied, ambiguously gendered creation of African-American cartoonist George Herriman. Seuss, who admired Krazy Kat, also draws upon the traditions of minstrelsy — a recurring influence in his 1920s magazine cartoons. In this paper, I read the Cat in the Hat as racially black. Doing so helps delineate the African-American cultural imaginary in Seuss’s work, the evolution of Seuss’s racial politics, and how children’s literature reflects and obscures the struggle for civil rights.
What Eric Lott says about nineteenth-century minstrels might also be said about Seuss’s twentieth-century black cat. The Cat and minstrels are ambivalent figures “with moments of resistance to the dominant culture as well as moments of suppression,” and they emerge during a struggle over the role of blacks in American society. Though not explicitly about integration, The Cat in the Hat (1957) dramatizes a conflict between a black cat and white children. The Cat’s character and costume borrow from Zip Coon, that foppish “northern dandy negro,” who William Mahar calls “a confidence man who is sincere and ignorant of the values associated with social station or power.” The Cat’s umbrella and outrageous fashion sense — striped hat, bright red bowtie — recall Zip Coon, as does his pretense of knowing this middle-class household’s rules. Like Krazy Kat, another black cartoon cat with roots in minstrelsy, Seuss’s Cat is ambiguous, both crossing boundaries and reminding us of where those boundaries should be.
Emerging at a crucial juncture in Seuss’s development as a consciously political artist, The Cat in the Hat displays both the unconscious racism of his earliest work and the progressive ideals of his mature work. In the 1950s, Seuss introduces this anti-prejudice motif in “The Sneetches” (Redbook, 1953; book, 1961), and Horton Hears a Who! (1954), published the same year as Brown vs. Board of Education. Yet, Seuss also publishes If I Ran the Zoo (1950), in which protagonist Gerald McGrew travels to the “African island of Yerka,” where he meets two mostly naked black natives, and to “Zomba-ma-Tant / With helpers who all wear their eyes at a slant.” The Cat embodies the contradictions of Seuss’s work in the 1950s. A black character in a white family’s home, he is both fun and terrifying. He liberates Sally and her brother from stifling social rules, but brings many dangers — the very real possibility of the household’s destruction, the fish’s death, and mother’s censure. Read as racially black, the Cat conveys a mixed message about integration, performing Seuss’s struggle with racism.
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By Bismarck.Magnuss 2012-07-18 11:46:19
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Yeah, you can find several analyses of the book. Just like there are millions of books on a single Shakespeare play. And the beauty of literature allows it, because there's no single way to analyze any work. I had a professor tell me that if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck that it must be a duck. But what about looking at the duck from the side? Or underneath or above it? How about looking at the duck's internal organs, or focusing entirely on its leg? The same thing can be seen in literature. If you find race to be at it's forefront, then so be it. I found another article that mentions that the Cat in the Hat is about the school system and the climate of the time. Bearing that in mind, though you can see the Cat in the Hat as a piece of racial literature, it doesn't embody the movement as prolifically as something like Malcolm X's work or the narrative of Fredrick Douglass. Again, I would argue that the Cat in the Hat alone did nothing to change the political climate, unless you can offer me definitive proof of someone passing a law entirely based on something the Cat in the Hat suggested. Social change is just as large a part of America as politics are, and that is entirely what literature is about. That's what it's been used for as long as literature has been a medium in human history. Whether it's being used as a forefront of a social movement (which in many cases also begets political change such as the the Cavalier works which brought about the British Civil war) or used as a step in the right direction for personal use (such as Emerson's Self Reliance), literature plays that role. And Nabokov, Poe and Steinbeck are just as much a part of that as anything else.
 Asura.Dameshi
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By Asura.Dameshi 2012-07-18 11:50:25
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I want to write a book in which I have no hidden meanings, then watch everyone analyze it and try to determine what hidden messages there are.

Would be fun to see what people say.
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 Bismarck.Magnuss
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By Bismarck.Magnuss 2012-07-18 11:54:03
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Asura.Dameshi said: »
I want to write a book in which I have no hidden meanings, then watch everyone analyze it and try to determine what hidden messages there are.

Would be fun to see what people say.
That's why I love Nabokov so much. He purposefully wrote Lolita trying to imagine the most offensive topic imaginable. To this day people still don't understand. I had a classmate who read the same book and publicly announced to the class that she thought the book was a waste of time and she hated it, etc. And I realized that's the point. If you're worried about what it has to say and find it offensive, that's just Nabokov trolling you. He loved this attention, because he always felt that his work like all literature is a work of art, and simply that. Don't try to think of it didactically, he didn't mean it to be as such. He wasn't an advocate for pedophilia. He wrote it because it was just as much art to him as say looking at the Mona Lisa. And if people get offended, they don't get the point.
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By Asura.Dameshi 2012-07-18 11:58:23
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Bismarck.Magnuss said: »
Asura.Dameshi said: »
I want to write a book in which I have no hidden meanings, then watch everyone analyze it and try to determine what hidden messages there are.

Would be fun to see what people say.
That's why I love Nabokov so much. He purposefully wrote Lolita trying to imagine the most offensive topic imaginable. To this day people still don't understand. I had a classmate who read the same book and publicly announced to the class that she thought the book was a waste of time and she hated it, etc. And I realized that's the point. If you're worried about what it has to say and find it offensive, that's just Nabokov trolling you. He loved this attention, because he always felt that his work like all literature is a work of art, and simply that. Don't try to think of it didactically, he didn't mean it to be as such. He wasn't an advocate for pedophilia. He wrote it because it was just as much art to him as say looking at the Mona Lisa. And if people get offended, they don't get the point.
That's pretty awesome. Not everything needs to be analyzed to the ground!
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By Bismarck.Magnuss 2012-07-18 11:59:01
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There's another one of his works which I really want to read called Pale Fire. In it, within the first few lines he suggests that in order to understand this, you need to turn to this other page. So you put your finger in the page at the time and flip to the other page to read what he's talking about. A little while longer while you're reading the explanation, he tells you that you need to go to this other page to understand what you just read. So you do so again. After a little while, you already have one full hand in there with each finger holding another page when you realize that Nabokov has trolled you once again. That ***is awesome to me.
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 Asura.Dameshi
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By Asura.Dameshi 2012-07-18 12:00:20
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Magnuss! You have a new goal in life. You must become a troll author.
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 Bismarck.Magnuss
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By Bismarck.Magnuss 2012-07-18 12:04:14
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I think I'm already on the verge of something like that. See, now I really want to post what I have of my story so far. Actually, what the hell? Why not? I'll just spoiler it, and those that want to read it can.

Shouldn't take more than 20 minutes to read the whole thing.
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By Asura.Dameshi 2012-07-18 12:05:23
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Remind me after lunch and I will read it. I don't want to start it then get interrupted with delicious Chinese cuisine.
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2012-07-18 12:06:19
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Bismarck.Magnuss said: »
Asura.Dameshi said: »
I want to write a book in which I have no hidden meanings, then watch everyone analyze it and try to determine what hidden messages there are. Would be fun to see what people say.
That's why I love Nabokov so much. He purposefully wrote Lolita trying to imagine the most offensive topic imaginable. To this day people still don't understand. I had a classmate who read the same book and publicly announced to the class that she thought the book was a waste of time and she hated it, etc. And I realized that's the point. If you're worried about what it has to say and find it offensive, that's just Nabokov trolling you. He loved this attention, because he always felt that his work like all literature is a work of art, and simply that. Don't try to think of it didactically, he didn't mean it to be as such. He wasn't an advocate for pedophilia. He wrote it because it was just as much art to him as say looking at the Mona Lisa. And if people get offended, they don't get the point.
What if they get the point and are offended anyways?
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By Bismarck.Magnuss 2012-07-18 12:07:43
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Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
Bismarck.Magnuss said: »
Asura.Dameshi said: »
I want to write a book in which I have no hidden meanings, then watch everyone analyze it and try to determine what hidden messages there are. Would be fun to see what people say.
That's why I love Nabokov so much. He purposefully wrote Lolita trying to imagine the most offensive topic imaginable. To this day people still don't understand. I had a classmate who read the same book and publicly announced to the class that she thought the book was a waste of time and she hated it, etc. And I realized that's the point. If you're worried about what it has to say and find it offensive, that's just Nabokov trolling you. He loved this attention, because he always felt that his work like all literature is a work of art, and simply that. Don't try to think of it didactically, he didn't mean it to be as such. He wasn't an advocate for pedophilia. He wrote it because it was just as much art to him as say looking at the Mona Lisa. And if people get offended, they don't get the point.
What if they get the point and are offended anyways?
Well, they don't have to read it. Y'know, unless their grade depended on it.
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By Caitsith.Zahrah 2012-07-18 12:11:03
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Oh man! This took off!
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2012-07-18 12:11:09
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this all kind of reminds me of when that world famous violinist went down into the subways of new york and started to play on his strat for tips as a kind of expiriment or what not... no one paid him much attention or knew who he was or even seem struck by the beauty of the music... While others pay hundreds of dollars and dress up just to go see him play...

Not everyone understands or appreciates things the same way nor do they hold the same importance or significance...
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