Looking For Stunning Advice, Morimar Delve 5NM

Are you the only stunner in the group? We usually have 2x SCH/BLM.

With Tabula Rasa you get 3 minutes(3:30 with augmented relic) of solo stuns each without consuming stratagems. And then alternating stuns for the remainder of the fight should last you until it's dead.

I don't go with pickups but I assume if they can kill all 5 NMs in time then it shouldn't take more than 9~10 minutes to kill tojil?

My situation is almost the same as the op, maybe today or tomorrow will finish gearing my stun sch, not a top sch but i think what i have should be fine.
My current stage is getting experience with that job. So would like to ask some few questions.
First, i would feel more confortable in stunning by chat log. Using the program mentioned (battlemod) should work fine for that in entire run?
I think having 2 stunners should be more reliable, so i geared both me and my dual box to stun sch. Having 2 can we stun every tp move/magic in the run without running out alacrity?
Should i ask cor to cast me macc and fast cast rolls?
About command, correct if im planning something wrong: first thing to use should be thunderstorm to get argute loafers bonus, then alacrity so create a macro that cast stun and one second after recast alacrity and alternate between main and dual box stuns to get more time to recharge stratagems and be able to stun consecultive moves. Tabula rasa if i ran out stratagems.
Last thing, is sch suppose to do more roles aside stun in a boss run? Like healing or nuking?
Sorry for wall text.
Thanks.

some people can do fine with chat log stun, some people can't. Majority of the people I know prefer animation stunning as it is reliable provided you can see the animations. Relying on chatlog can make you trigger happy and accidentally stunning on a wrong log (depends on filter setup i guess.) It is fine as long as you are used to it imo. Bottom line is you deliver your stuns when it's needed, who cares how you do it.


Depends how long your fight last. But it's usually not the norm to stun every magic moves as it's quite wasteful (and nms will build resistance). Some are not worth stunning, some are too fast for you to stun.. so usually you're only required to stun ones that hurt (e.g. meteor on tojil)

Depends on setups, but for most setups you're not gonna get a COR in your party. Generally, Geo will give you macc+(and -meva on the mob), you'll get haste and maybe marches if a brd is in your pt.

You probably want to check on your group on that. Some groups may want you to embrava for specific nms/situations (e.g. in Ceizak, some groups might want embrava on Mastop instead of bee, thus you're may not have tabula rasa at your disposal when you want it.)

I think most Tojil run uses a sch to nuke Matamata now. But otherwise no, though it depends on strategy.

Obviously, the natural FFXI chat filters don't adaquately filter battle log, but can battlemod? Can I turn on all the filters except all of the mob sections <casting> and <readies> so I only see the mob stuff, and not the TP moves my ally is doing.

Also, an LS member said they he believes he read of a lua add on that allows you to change the text color of certain TP moves, say to red, so that you can simply react to a color instantly.

I suggest finding a way to work in 1 bard into your party at least for the boss. w/ marchx2 & haste, you shouldn't need to use stratagems while those are up if you have 2 schs.
It's helpful to have a march+3 harp & af3+2.

Other roles for a sch in delve are:
Bio the scorpion after every tp move / when message appears if you aren't the next to stun.

Help enfeeble Mastop.

Dispel if a boss gets buffs up.

Embrava mastop/krabakarpo. those are the ones my group embravas.
Mastop embrava is to help mitigate slow, Krabakarpo just so I can kaustra him & burn lots of strats fast nuking. ^_^

Help nuke down aura if you aren't up to stun @boss.

Impact: eft, peiste, kurma, craklaw, uragnite, orobon, krabakarpo, Twitherym, & Chapuli.
Only attempt to impact craklaw/orobon/twitherym if you don't need to worry about stratagems & can make sure you'll be ready to stun again when it's your turn.

Hi.
Would like to ask if a party bring 2 stun sch to fracture, that could allow swapping an apajamas ii for an high macc staff like atinian, then turning not necessary geo languor and indi focus, so just having to bring 1 geo (for frailty, refresh and nukes)?
Thanks.

A good group can do it with 1 sch and 1 geo.

your idea leaves your rdm & main sch lacking macc & your other sch lacking recast. In result having resistance on enfeebles & stuns as well as miss stuns due to 9sec+ recast issues. so i would suggest not doing so as Focus/languor are vital than you may think, as well as bringing a useless sch will just cause problems. you may as well not bring them at all.
If mp is a issue and need refresh that badly just embrava/Ballad

Question is what are you trying to substitute the geo for?

like Itchi508 says, 1 sch can do it with 1 geo. So you can take away the 2nd sch for whatever you desire if the sch is good enough to solo instead of taking away the geo.

Without languor and indi focus you're going to start getting resists on stun a lot faster, so you have less time to kill the boss (also more risks with random resists). with weapon being so strong now frailty definitely isn't worth it over languor.

What you need refresh for? put a bard in that pt and ballad whoever needs it might be a better idea (since they can march the sch too. Stun duty sch should be able to live off sublimation) I don't think refresh is worth a geo magic slot to be honest.

I was just wondering using an atinian over apajamas ii means giving up +190 macc for -14% recast. If having 2 sch, in theory, can halve the overall recast time, i would prefer having 2 redundant stuns, prefering safety over efficiency, at least in first steps.
So the question would be if languor+focus > +190 macc. If yes, those magics need to be cast. If no, a second geo wouldnt be necessary as i also dont want to give up frailty as not everyone have oats. Refresh would be for geo nuking after his spells are cast, but could be indi focus and benefit bith schs and whatever mage in geos party.

Think people are way overvaluing the magic accuracy here. I started SCH stunning with gimp skill, whatever I had laying around, and way able to land alternating stuns on Tojil for about 9-10 minutes before resists set in, using zero stratagems. With marches and haste (which you should have anyway), a gimp set should get down to 12 second recast, and from what I have seen, TP moves on bosses tend to run off every 9-10 seconds when full melee are engaged. Just keep up your thunder weather and accuracy shouldn't be an issue.

Not sure what you have in your mage party either if you are hurting on a slot. Mage party should be GEO/GEO/SCH/SCH/BRD/RDM. BRD and RDM can easily pull the boss without missing a beat.

If sch don't have Apa II don't take them period, they will not be dependable. if they are required to main stun or even cover a stun and go back to back stuns, they wont have the recast. Not to mention they can't solo stun. Making them a waisted member.

The macc from that Atinian is not needed. & even with rigor mnks they still shouldn't have issues where you would need to swop your lupons as you desire. If they do have issues its not lupons that need changes, its there gear sets.

And this makes me smile. I don't think I've won a single run when I wasn't on SCH, yet I don't have Apa II yet!

No offense, but this means your other sch is pulling your weight & you would have trouble keeping up if say Lahar went off 2-3x in row and was your job to stun them. Speaking as if your main sch d/c or died or was out of strats.
Its not impossible to stun w/o Apa II. The issue is you are relying on the other sch to stun what you cant due to your recast.
But lets not get off topic. The point is don't change your lupons. Or everyone is going to have issues.

Obviously skills can outshine the need for ideal stun set. You could very well be the exception here :P A sch without apaII would make you wonder if they have the efficient haste/fastcast/macc and... skills to do it. Definitely not something I'd consider if I'm doing a PUG. XD

It's very situational I believe, if you have a stun bot or a close to the server (aka JP sch) or someone with ridiculous reaction time - then you don't need to red line stun everything. Which means recast time matters a lot less since you only stun things that are risky. If you are to red line stun, I believe you need that Apa2 to get your recast time down enough to stun reliably.


If you want safety over efficiency, 2 hasted apa2 sch and a geo doing languor+focus is the way to go. This is the most common method (at least to my knowledge). You are not going to hit the stun resist wall until about 9mins in as long as your schs are adequately geared with macc - personally i've never had a single resist until that time. recast is a bigger worry than resists, if you want to extend your timing, maybe it's an idea to swap in atinian staff after you hit the stun resist wall, but definitely not worth it before that - it gives you no merit because your stuns will land.

EDIT: one thing to add is that the luopans not only gives macc to sch stunning, it also helps the bards/geos land elegy/dispel/nukes/whatever magic related. So i think the gain is a lot better than getting the sch to equip staff.

The other SCH doesn't have Apa II either...It's called knowing how to coordinate and knowing when to use/not use your stratagems. Lahar can go off 100 times in a row, they will be 9-10 seconds in between, and 2 SCH's with 11 second recasts alternating can stun EVERYTHING. Not sure what kind of SCH's or DD's you are rolling with, but actually knowing what you are doing is a great thing. And if the other SCH dies, stun with alacrity is around 6 seconds atm with weather up and +2 feet, add that with +2 hands and Tabula, I can free stun every single thing he does up until the other is unweak. And it is on topic, as the title, is in fact, "Looking for stunning advice..."

It is off topic from your question. Now you seem to boasting that you can solo stun w/o Apa II. Then asking questions that make no Sense. Now you are acting like your boss and saying wha kind of DD i roll with? Our group can go with 1 sch, 1 geo 4dd. I am not the one asking questions then talking ***when you get the answer you where looking for.
I tried to not get off topic but you are asking to be trolled. Also you mentioned delve, not morimor specifically. If you are put on a spot in any Fracture where you need to solo stun, you will fall short.
If you and your other sch are not using apa II, then you may as well use the atinian staff but still do not eliminate your suggested lupons.

If you have such great confidence & so good than why are you here asking a question if your only going boast or talk ***?

It was me who did the question not studboy.
Anyway, guess better sticky with 2 sch and 2 geos is the safest way to for what i read.
Thanks for all answer.

You mean you can free stun every TP move until your other sch is unweak. If you stun the magic moves in between, i think you might have trouble with your recast time. Since a magic->TP move can happen at Tojil back to back that requires a recast of close to 3s to stun reliably, a 6 second recast isn't going to cut it in those situations.

Sure, something like Flare/meteor etc you will/might have time to recover your recast, but things like diaga 3 or slowga , you don't. Whilst it's not life threatening it's detrimental to your DDs, and trying to erase those out is like a lottery draw with all the debuff aura Tojil has.

As always, you can still win, but you can't deny Apa II will make your life easier. :P

I agree, that's why I'm making one now! (Just have the hecteyes to go)



I R REED GUD!

Edit: For the record, he basically asked about magic accuracy and jobs that he brings to runs. I answered that, then gave personal experience to back it up. You then said not to ever bring a non-Apa II SCH, in which I then, again, gave personal experience, which then led to you calling me the weak link in so many words. In closing:
1.) All I am doing is giving personal experience and trying to help in an area I think many would say I excel in, and
2.) Please, please, please understand what the hell is going on before you try to trash me. I'm not looking for a fight, and blindly pulling stuff out of the air is making you look foolish.

Is apajamas staff required for stunning? Or some other staff is ok?

atinian is better

Atinian may have more accuracy, but Apajamas have the ever-needed -14% cast/recast time.

So apajamas is required for stunning? If so I quit my quest of becoming a stunner lol

Stun SCH is a job where you need to balance your gear to have both speed (cast and recast) and macc. Adoulin staves have high macc while apajams fall in the category speed. Prob a reasonable answer would be, depend of your gear.
Apajamas has -14% recast time. That would mean one single slot in your gear would have 28% fast cast, and if you look the options available for fast cast, that's simply crazy (second best fc I remember is natirah hat, with 10).
In theory, with apajamas II you could swap fast cast in gear for macc gear, that are more common than the former, but unfortunately no other slot has more macc than the staff, so doing this trade off wouldnt make that much sense.
But looking at morimar delve, the place this topic is referred to, if you consider just nms, i can say that, if you have good dds and good healers, you really dont need one single stun in all t1-t5. None of those nms have enough power to wipe a party that have real chances of winning this delve, even if not stunned.
At tojil, he sure is dangerous, because of lahar. That can wipe a party no matter how good they are (still good party can survive some lahars). But tojil, as dakuwaqa and muwingwa, are the easier to stun in all the respective delve, first because they have high reading time, second because they dont cast/read a move in less than 8 secs after the previous move.
Saying about experience, normally the party leader will place you with a personal brd that will march you and haste. With those, i, dual boxing stuns, can stun everything without alacrity, even swapping apajamas for a macc staff.
As the interval between tp move of mega boss dont really change till the end, prob stunners will lack more macc (if the fight takes a large amount of time, like9+ min) than recast.
In short, no, you dont need apajamas ii , and dont even need such massive amount of haste of fast cast, providing you have a brd and haste.
A rudimentar math, suposing you get marchsx2 and haste, you will reach the cap of 44%. Just that will cut the recast time of stun from 45 to 25,2 secs. Supposing the interval of tp moves of 8 secs, and 2x stuns, so you would have actual 12,6 secs. So you just would need to shave off 4,2 secs of recast, so you would need 33% reduction in gear. Haste gear can come, for a modest setup, 20%, plus 2% from ionis, just needing 11% to shave with fast cast to stun without alacrity. Apajamas could make up this difference so fast cast wouldnt be necessary, but if you use natirah hat, apajamas isnt necessary.
Of course in actual fight you will have alacrity that cut this recast to half, making viable even more poor gears in recast.
But then, you would ran out stratagems before you hit stun wall. But for those cases, you could also choose what to stun, prolonging both time available before stun wall, and time to recharge stratagems.

But about the apajamas trial, they arent like weather trials, and with adoulin gear, can be easily accomplished in one day, provide you have suport, or if you do as solo sch/drk, provide you can use efficiently kraustra and isl chest in abyssea. Btw, almost all the trials of apajamas ii can be done in abyssea.

EDIT: probably i did some mistake in those calcs, because im not any mathematic genius, nor i have perfect understanding of the equations involved in recast delay, so anyone who better understanding feel free to correct me, but i think the idea is that, just the numbers should be a little off.

Oh thanks for the detailed explanation :)

Basically the above.

If there are two stunners, you don't need Apajamas II.

If you have one stunner, you don't need Apajamas II but you might want to exercise some discretion in what magic to skip.

If you "have" to use Alacrity as the only stunner, you probably don't need Apajamas II (this would be the case for bee since TP moves can be spaced ~8 seconds apart).

This is all contingent on having adequate recast reduction. Two stunners relaxes the magic haste requirement vs one stunner.

If you use Apajamas II, it's probably a good idea to have at least one of Focus or Languor to avoid random resists before the stun wall. Atinian or similar precludes need for Focus/Languor.

Truth to be said, dont understimate apajamas ii.
It isnt, by any means, a blind staff. Dont let the text "thunder affinity: magic accuracy +6" fool you. It isnt macc+6. Its actually, macc +70.
Of course higher lv staves have more +magic acuracy skill (that i dont know if 1 macc skill= macc), but i already faced a situation where i hit the stun wall then swaped for atinian. I can say the diference shouldnt be much higher than +1 min of stuns maybe 2, so adoulin staves arent that much better than apajamas.

Unless you have no buffs and ***gear, apamajas ii will not cut a significant amount off of the recast of stun. You see 14% and think 'w0w', but it's in fc term not haste term. If you're getting haste term high enough, it ceases to matter. Asking for languor or focus just so you can pretend your magian trials weren't a waste of time is absurd.

..I have apamajas II, on all of my characters. It was wonderful when legion and provenance were popular. At this point though, it sits in storage where it belongs.