Summoner In Delve - Share Your Stories

So I was wondering if any of you summoner out there been going in Delve and would not mind sharing your story and experience. I don't think Smn is a wasted spot in farm party. We can bring a lot - assuming your pick up groups understand what team work mean.

As summoner we can hold one stray adds that whack the healer, buff our party with evasion + accuracy, hastega, phalanx, fenrir stats bonuses, enfire +40 damage, ice spikes, stoneskinga. Assuming your smn magic is capped, our buffs last quite awhile, you can rotate those buffs, and toss cure 4 here and there. With elemental siphon, you should never run out of mp.

If two mobs whacking your party or three, garuda can easily hold 2 with whispering wind spam if needed (or dawn mulsum for emergency). If we are not buffing and have to stick with one avatar, Ifrit enfire + double attack would works with 12-24% double attack rate. You can toss cure 4 as needed. Even your light spirit is not shy tossing cure 4 and curaga heals.

I would assume, bard, 3 monks, sch and summoner would make a good stationery party - this counting those same group can work together :)

A smn going into delve is a waste of a slot it just doesnt do enough damage compared to melees and buffs arent as good as a cors or brds. If the group has a sch healer the party can also get phalanxga, enfirega, stoneskinga and 6+mins of haste which are all more powerful versions of a smns.

Pen and paper party whoooo
My SMN experience in delve was changing to brd.

Well if a SMN wanted to replace a WHM or SCH as healer, the minimum i'd ask for is the ability to keep a party alive (i don't care if it's by regen, phalanx, purely by cures or w/e, an alive pt is an alive pt), hasted, free of petrify and attack down. I'd consider anything else a bonus.

I can't see a SMN replacing any other slot though without harming the functionality of the party

I played as smn/rdm in fracture in tank pt, since we dont need buffs we can do better than a random melee. That was before ammo for smn. I think that with new ammo lvl 113 and balsam staff(with 120MAB in august) can be decent choice.

The tank party thing never really stuck on Fenrir lol, i personally found holding NMs on PLD to be just as boring as sacking, but needed more attention. It also lumped other people with boring roles too and generally netted less plasm. There's the exp loss, but sac is usually willing to take 5 lixir to pay for the deaths and everybody is happy.

I'm sure PUP and SMN would thrive in that situation though

My main problem with my run so far is the lack of good healer, or people who understand what "healer" job is. And know how to play Scholar and Whm effectively with decent refresh gears and can manage their mp. When your summoner in party can heal better than your whm, and have better healing gears, there is something seriously wrong with your whm.... With Diabolos favor, I can get 10 mp per tick standing up spamming haste and cure 4 without running out of mp at all. Lack of protectra shellra is a big issue but when your buffs constantly dispelled by the eft... and your healer dont even bother to apply again let alone cure 4, or regen 4-5....

Well all protect and shell do at the end of day is help keep people alive. If you can keep people alive w/o them, w/o preventing yourself from doing your other stuff or DD having to gimp DPS with DT sets and such, then they are effectively needless

Not having Shellra is a big issue on fodder mobs that dont cast?.... ok

As far as protect goes /whm gets protectra 3 and you can shining ruby for an extra 10% def if a mob AoEs you can use healing ruby 2 and top then back to full. Though in all seriousness I wouldnt want to heal on smn theres me thinking the dark days of smn being a healer were long gone. I was a career smn back at 75 endgame and not once did I need to heal anyone but myself.

No, I don't want to be forced as healer either lol, but I don't mind healing here and there, I mean it is a group effort and I am not beyond tossing cure 4 here and there to help out the healer. Though when the SMN become the healer - and your whm has to rest mp even with 10 mp refresh.... that's like a serious problem, usually with PUGs delve shout :) At that point, I may as well come as SCH and do a better healing job and kick the healer since that is a wasted spot.

I think the horror story of PUGs delve group maybe a better story to tell here hah hah hah.

1. Usually you get clueless DD who whack every single mobs - even the one that are slept. They do not assist the one person in their group that is assigned already to attack first.
2. Your pick up bard or red mage decided to sleep the NMs and wiped out the stationery party....
3. Your paladin kite and grab other NMs but keep on running even when his hp is below half, instead of stop running and let the healer catch up and toss a cure - then pld can run again.
4. Roaming party went all over the place instead of following party leader and stick with the group. That said straggler aggro NM and brought it to the roaming party and MPK them...
5. Healer who busy tossing non needed spells instead of focusing on the pld and let rdm do the haste refresh phalanx 2. Worse is healer who AFK half the battle, or the clueless aby noobies who decided to heal - rest as NM being kited through them and end up agro and killed them.
6. SCH who don't even use Regen 5-ga with perpetuance. Sat iddle - and end up running out of mp, every single time without question, not even using sublimation.
7. Melee who keep complaining they are not getting buffed, and worry more about their e-peen damage instead of working together as a group.
8. The general lack of knowledge on how to work together as a group, and helping each other to ensure a smooth run. I mean, if you are going to come as a healer or support job, by all means, try to know what that role is, and gear up. Don't come half naked with gears level 60s -75s... there are bayld version that is very affordable.

You wonder why it is so hard to get PUG group for delve when you always wasted an hour getting the group for a 45 mnts run. Then half the people disbanded instead of getting back to do another run ASAP. Thus the cycle continue, another hour to shout to refill lost party members. And that's just the general horror stories...

Tidal Roar, Inferno Howl, Diamond Storm are likely the only merits to SMN in delve right now. After the new 1 hour ability is released for SMN it will be much more likely to be used.

I wouldnt quite blame it all on the healer it depends no how much damage the DDs are taking and if they arent using some defensive JAs to keep damage down. Yes I know to get the most plasm DDs need to go all out but if the arent skillchaining or their wses arent doing enough damage they need to mitigate the damage from prolonged fights. Pts should be set up so that DDs can either make light or darkness generally it will kill mobs a hell of a lot faster. Ive been on cor and sch and seen pts doing crap damage and taxing the healers mp pool with ballads and refresh.

Skillchaining? LOL what is that? Delve PUG DDs mostly just auto attack spam WS tp, they dont bother setting up macro for SC, let alone looking at the other DD in their group, maybe send a tell, figure out, hey perhaps you and I can skillchain together, let's make a macro. But yeah the sorry state of delve PUGs, if we clear 4500k or more everyone is happy....

Yes I think I probably have to come as healer or dd or support. The curse of SMN is the buff they are giving us is not adjusted as we get to level 99. We end up can only do a little bit of everything but not doing it very good. And our damage output is limited by a very long timer compared to melee DD.

There was a function added by SE many years ago that allows you to not to be in parties with DD who are HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE, BRDs with gimp skills, and healers who ust have been drowned at birth, but their parents were too fail to finish the job.. /blacklist add [idiotname]

You can't build a party because of scrubs, you build a party based on best set ups, and kick the losers, I don't mind a DD whos DPS is Kack, but a DD thats just an idiot and doesn't try, has NO PLACE IN PLASM FARM PARTIES.

]1. Usually you get clueless DD who whack every single mobs - even the one that are slept. They do not assist the one person in their group that is assigned already to attack first.

Blacklist these fools or explain to them. Your choice, I know what I would do.

2. Your pick up bard or red mage decided to sleep the NMs and wiped out the stationery party....

Blacklist again

3. Your paladin kite and grab other NMs but keep on running even when his hp is below half, instead of stop running and let the healer catch up and toss a cure - then pld can run again.

I'm seeing alot of blacklist usage here.

4. Roaming party went all over the place instead of following party leader and stick with the group. That said straggler aggro NM and brought it to the roaming party and MPK them...

*** AND YELL AT PEOPLE or blacklist them. Only way retards will learn.

5. Healer who busy tossing non needed spells instead of focusing on the pld and let rdm do the haste refresh phalanx 2. Worse is healer who AFK half the battle, or the clueless aby noobies who decided to heal - rest as NM being kited through them and end up agro and killed them.

Define not needed buffs, but you should make sure the WHM knows their role, again though if they still persist. Blacklist again.

6. SCH who don't even use Regen 5-ga with perpetuance. Sat iddle - and end up running out of mp, every single time without question, not even using sublimation.

Never come across this one before, if someone doesn't know their job, kick and blacklist clearly HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE.

7. Melee who keep complaining they are not getting buffed, and worry more about their e-peen damage instead of working together as a group.

With a good healer, this wont be an issue. A group that works together is a group with a healer thats not HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE, I dual box a SCH when I play SAM and EVERYONE IN MY PT HAS Regen V, Phalanx, Firestorm (with the relic +2 feet augment), Enfire, Protect and Shell V, Refresh on DRK's and are instantly Viruna'd and poisona'd after every tp move. Don't blame the DD for complaining that your healer sucks, Kick the fail Healer and get one thats half competent.

8. The general lack of knowledge on how to work together as a group, and helping each other to ensure a smooth run. I mean, if you are going to come as a healer or support job, by all means, try to know what that role is, and gear up. Don't come half naked with gears level 60s -75s... there are bayld version that is very affordable.

Again if people are not geared and ready for delve, they should not be invited. kick them but perhaps not blacklist, I have this time honored reason.

" Please refer to the release notes where SE said this is for advanced players, if you find the content too hard, go do other parts of the game to get better GEAR " this does not mean you can come here in perle, *** OFF and come back when you have taken even half the time everyone else here has to prepare for this.

One time, my SMN did 99,999 dmg with Diabolos on the Matamata. I dispelled Harden Shell and stuff on Kurma. I might have used Haste-ga and some other buffs. I lagged people out with my Avatar too...


And then I went back to being DD, Cor, or RDM b/c SE has done a good job of making SMN a pretty wasteful slot in a productive delve party.

Aye back at 75 that 45 seconds didnt really mean much when DDs werent tping on the mob and just running in to ws but now that 45secs is 3-4 wses depending on jobs and buffs. At 75 only 2 jobs could reach the haste cap and one of those needed a relic.

4.5k plasm..... id have left that run half way through PUGs on odin are getting 6-7.5k and good groups are getting 9-10k. Shame SE added that ammo piece so late hardly anyone shouts for plasm farms these days.

Well a lot of people are somewhat new-ish at plasm party and what they need to do etc, if you never done Einherjar in the past, or Limbus party roaming, then this plasm thing is new for them. It does not help that with the lack of atma (the horror!!!!) - people suddenly have no idea how to manage mp and play defensively (work together so that your group do not wipe, aka more effective plasm party).

The fact that it takes at least 30-60 mnts to set up a party because you want certain jobs in your set up is adding more aggravation that people just want to do this and get it over with instead of waiting longer. Ideally you wanna check the party member gears (though this does not solve the problem, skills trump gears) and would rather have people who know what they are doing and decently geared over good geared player who play on their own beat and not working together in a party.

You would think that after seeing some of the same people in delve run over and over, they would understand their roles. I can forgive rookie mistake - we all made it, and first time run can be stressful with everything being so new. A good party support each other, it's just common sense. A DDs only as good as the support jobs in the party. And a mage can only be so effective if the DDs work together and not trying to solo each mobs. Bard songs draw massive hate, so when the slept mob getting woken up, it will go to the bard who may in the middle of casting buffs, and corsair light shot has timer. I have been to great party where the whm + pld set up is amazing and the roaming party keep roaming and has zero death.

Sac farms yes. NMs no.

Smn can do 10k+ BPs on the trash mobs as well as Nms. If your doing a sac farm there's no reason to turn down anyone let alone a good Smn.
Turning people down from "sac farm runs" cuz they are too weak is hypocritical, since the person leading is to weak to even attempt NMs in the 1st place! Sac farm is easy plasm for the lesser skilled.

But that is the problem, with a random group, the worse is your entire alliance is wiped soon enough within 5 mnts. The good party would recover this quickly and move on (a good player who are new to delve may made rookie mistakes but they learn fast). A bad group just keep on dying and end up with 2000 plasm which is just sad. Also why people are insist to farm in Morimar all the time? Ceizak farm is far more easier if the group knows what they are doing (and cheaper pop item). I do think SE should come up with alternative of delve farm - more small group options for less plasm. I rather get 3k max on small group but can go twice or more in a row rather than sitting waiting for an hour for a 45 mnts run and yield 2k on a bad party set up.

I would love to try a plasm farm on my SMN. I don't think I would be doing much via damage though but instead focus on raising the damage everyone else is doing.

Ifrit's Favor is 23% Double attack when capped. Add on Inferno howl for about 50 damage enfire and War cry for +11% Attack. Or you can break out some of the other avatars for their buffs.

Garuda for evasion, Hastega, and AoE heals.

Ramuh for Crit rate and Enthunder, Lightning spikes, or Stun.

Titan for Defense and Stoneskin-ga.

Carbuncle Stackable Protect/shell, 20 HP regen, AoE heals.

Omg why do people think you need a macro to skillchain? Setting up skillchains and waiting for people to get tp and all that slows things down in delve partys. When people say you should skillchain together its more of paying attention than actually setting things up. It's not hard to figure out what your ws will skillchain with, I mean there are what 4 or 5 ws you will ever see used now adays. Pay attention to what is being used, if someone is wsing hold that extra second to skillchain, do it when it is convenient rather than just blindly spam ws. I have never tried to talk out ws, HATE chat macros, and never hold tp yet I manage to sc constanly. That and you need a new server or something if 4500 makes people happy. Now adays even a poor group should hit close to 6k, a halfway decent group should be at around 7k. I mean your later posts which I don't feel like quoting cause im lazy mention like 3k runs, how do you do that? I've had one or two uber fail PUGs with a lot of death and we still hit 4k. You almost have to try to hit that low. Also how do you actually have a full wipe in a delve run? Seriously take Conaghs advice and use that blacklist cause you got some people that are beyond clueless running around it sounds like.

Yes ifrits favor is 23 DA but if you are doing all that it wont ever be capped. Dissmissing ifrit or using a blood pact reset the favor

Don't forget to factor the terrible range. Most of the time people would be too far from Ifrit.

I wasn't suggesting using all the avatars. Sorry if it was worded poorly, have a habit of doing that. Meant pick one avatar that fits best to support your group and stick to it. If you have to change though that would lower the usefulness for the first 2 minutes after the change.

The majority of the posts here were talking about damage so I figured Ifrit would be the best to suggest as a main since he provides the highest raw damage boost with +11% Attack, Enfire, and Double Attack +23%.

It only takes 20 seconds to recover after using a ward to get capped Favor again. If you are using Rages then yes it will probably never cap out but the post was meant more so as a DD support role and not all out DD.

Using both Crimson and Inferno Howl (mine currently last 3m33s) nets you with 40 seconds of lower Double attack and 173 seconds of 23% double attack.

Over a 45m run if Ifrit doesn't die and you don't have to switch this nets 34m20sish of Full buffs and favor. (Rounded down to 3m30s duration on wards to make this easier.)

My skill is 454 in skill+ gear atm so you can get even higher numbers then this.(Skill isn't capped I'm a nub)

As for melee DPS being out of range, I'm not suggesting you just sit idle using a ward every now and then. At least send your avatar to attack the current target. Even with just the Bayld sash avatars can take quite the beating.

I suggest subbing WHM so you can haste, cure, -na, and erase your group as well further adding to your support.

Also I know most of this is a moot point as pretty much no one will take a SMN anyhow lol.

In an ideal set up where you have absolute control over everything, yeah you probably want job XYZ with DDs that are super tweaked with gear swap macro to the tilt that can one shot kill delve trash mob when they do weapon skill and have your three song bard buffs and perfect roll from your corsair and cure bot whm ready with their cureskin spam to keep you alive - and their perfect refresh cure potency gear.

But we are talking in general, reality, in pick up groups. A well geared summoner with maxed summon magic and delve staff + ammo is more useful than your typical pick up whm that barely have their AF3+1 together. Or by the number bard and corsair that just want to take the easy ride for invite to a delve party.

As other have mentioned, a good career summoner is more valuable than your by the numbers job xyz. Between double attack, enfire, and crimson howl (which last over 90 seconds or more with max summon magic). Let alone a bonus 2k damage from your BP rage if needed - plus the ability to toss haste and cure 4 if needed - and your avatar can easily tank hold trash mob on its own. That's a lot to bring to the table.

But you know how it is, everyone wants a cookie cutter set up, jobs xyz, OMG we are doomed no bard or corsair in party, everyone disband and go back shouting for another 2 hours....

You're comparing a hypothetical gimp AF3+1 whm to a perfectly played smn so of course the smn would sound most ideal. All things being equal, you would take the cookie cutter job because it's the most effective.

Drop the case for SMN please. This thread is more of a vindication of your desire to go to delve as SMN, rather than a thread discussing and ultimately disregarding it as an inferior choice in comparison to optimal setups. The hypothetical pimped SMN Vs. an under-geared job or an unavailable support job is just a hypothetical idea, but in practice the reality is blatantly obvious. SMN is inferior to jobs of equal stature that are more suited.

You're on Summoner, it's Monday.. That's against the rules. You can't Delve with us.

Honestly? If you could blood pact more often I'd say yes however an Avatar's regular hits just don't do much damage. However, a few times Iv'e been to a delve party in Mori and the party in the main room group have been waiting on repops cause of how fast they kill, so maybe in this scenario you could. I've farmed on BLU and kept pretty consistent damage with my weapon skills alone in there BUT too many people think you have to keep to a strict grouping while doing even plasm farming on the regular mobs in there and it annoys me....