|
|
Microsoft's Next-Gen Sets Itself Back
 Shiva.Gib
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1264
By Shiva.Gib 2013-04-08 11:54:28
And why wouldn't you have the internet, I mean if you didn't something tells me technology really isn't your forté, and you probably don't care about gaming...
You're missing the point entirely. Despite percentages and statistics, internet connection availability and consistency are not on the same levels as running water or electricity. While I'm sure a general majority including MS's demograph have relatively consistent and fast internet connections, there are and will be many who do not. Which brings the case of the underlying purpose of a console: to play games.
Why in God's green earth would you restrict the capacity to play games or anything for that matter on the basis of steadfast internet connection? People buy consoles because they're a single package they know they can plug in and it will work with the given software, if you take that away, why have a console in the first place outside of deemed must-have exclusive titles? I think you're missing the point if you're comparing video game consoles to indoor plumbing and electricity...
if the "always on" thing offends you this much, you should get a new hobby bro. This is the future, it's happening, cry all you want, whine all you want, it's happening.
Being a hardcore and LEGAL PC gamer and a steam fan for years and years all I can say is, Jesus Christ you console people are making a mountain out of an anthill.
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 33979
By Bismarck.Dracondria 2013-04-08 11:55:46
The point is it shouldn't be required for a game that isn't even played online. For an online game it's fine. It makes absolutely no sense for an offline singleplayer game to force you to have an internet connection in order to play it.
[+]
By Artemicion 2013-04-08 11:56:49
What I am baffled by is how anyone could support or otherwise not care about any form of unnecessarily imposed consumer freedom or functionality. As a customer and consumer of the industry, you should not accept anything less than at the very least the most fundamental right and ability to do what you demand: playing games.
Sony kicked their demo in the balls when they asked for backwards compatibility.
Now MS is doing the same for anyone that may or may not lose internet connection or not have access to it at some point in time. Here's a hint...
By Artemicion 2013-04-08 11:58:22
I think you're missing the point if you're comparing video game consoles to indoor plumbing and electricity...
if the "always on" thing offends you this much, you should get a new hobby bro. This is the future, it's happening, cry all you want, whine all you want, it's happening.
Being a hardcore and LEGAL PC gamer and a steam fan for years and years all I can say is, Jesus Christ you console people are making a mountain out of an anthill. 
For the record, I was comparing the consistency levels between internet connection and electricity/indoor plumbing.
Secondly, an always-on mandate completely defeats the purpose of owning a console in the first place.
If you cannot understand that then there is little to no hope for you.
Shiva.Gib
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1264
By Shiva.Gib 2013-04-08 12:00:13
Bismarck.Dracondria said: »The point is it shouldn't be required for a game that isn't even played online. For an online game it's fine. It makes absolutely no sense for an offline singleplayer game to force you to have an internet connection in order to play it. shouldn't, but it is, times they are a changing.
And guess what, looking at games like Diablo 3, which have sold millions of copies and still yet CANNOT be pirated is showing companies that there is value in always on DRM.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5350
By Asura.Abysswalker 2013-04-08 12:01:05
I have a pirated copy of Diablo 3 that works just fine. :x
Times may be changing but I feel like they are for the worst. PC gaming looks more better after each announcement.
Shiva.Gib
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1264
By Shiva.Gib 2013-04-08 12:02:12
I think you're missing the point if you're comparing video game consoles to indoor plumbing and electricity...
if the "always on" thing offends you this much, you should get a new hobby bro. This is the future, it's happening, cry all you want, whine all you want, it's happening.
Being a hardcore and LEGAL PC gamer and a steam fan for years and years all I can say is, Jesus Christ you console people are making a mountain out of an anthill.
For the record, I was comparing the consistency levels between internet connection and electricity/indoor plumbing.
Secondly, an always-on mandate completely defeats the purpose of owning a console in the first place.
If you cannot understand that then there is little to no hope for you. and you, like 95% of all the other 'internet cynics' will cave the second a game you want for the system comes out.
yep
By Artemicion 2013-04-08 12:02:51
Bismarck.Dracondria said: »The point is it shouldn't be required for a game that isn't even played online. For an online game it's fine. It makes absolutely no sense for an offline singleplayer game to force you to have an internet connection in order to play it. shouldn't, but it is, times they are a changing.
Corporate vices on their user base shouldn't such a conforming reaction. It's kind of scary that any imposed limitation on your ability to do what the device is advertised or otherwise intended to do would be greeted with
Shiva.Gib
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1264
By Shiva.Gib 2013-04-08 12:04:24
Asura.Abysswalker said: »I have a pirated copy of Diablo 3 that works just fine. :x
Times may be changing but I feel like they are for the worst. PC gaming looks more better after each announcement.
with functioning AI?
if it's not Scene, I'm sure it's crap.
Shiva.Gib
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1264
By Shiva.Gib 2013-04-08 12:09:23
Bismarck.Dracondria said: »The point is it shouldn't be required for a game that isn't even played online. For an online game it's fine. It makes absolutely no sense for an offline singleplayer game to force you to have an internet connection in order to play it. shouldn't, but it is, times they are a changing.
Corporate vices on their user base shouldn't such a conforming reaction. It's kind of scary that any imposed limitation on your ability to do what the device is advertised or otherwise intended to do would be greeted with
you're making it seem like they're going to hide an 'Always on' thing, even if it is in the final version of the console.
So, yes, it will be as advertised, I'm sure.
you're making it seem like Microsoft is installing spy cameras in your house or something. If the concept of Single Player not being available 100% of the time, and only 99.99% of the time, don't buy the system. Speak with your wallet, see if you change anything. Something tells me you won't and that's the main reason you're getting your panties all in a bundle.
I don't see why this is like offending your way of life.
Video gaming is not a god given right.
By Gavlin 2013-04-08 12:09:33
I dont feel its my right to demand they make there console or game how I want it. I may not want it the same as you or anyone else.
You may really enjoy just grabbing a mag and some tissue's and heading to your bedroom for a good time.
I on the other hand like to have someone there with me to enjoy myself.
We are not all the same and it may not be a bad thing having even single player games have conectivity. Games these days seem rushed this is a way games could update, patch, fix glitchs etc... so it could be a good thing for some. Also you stated consumer freedom they have by no means limited your freedom as you do not have to purchase one.
That is your right, you have the right to make decision to buy or not.
 Garuda.Chanti
Server: Garuda
Game: FFXI
Posts: 12244
By Garuda.Chanti 2013-04-08 12:11:47
90% of PC's today run on a Mircosoft based operating system. That is the the stat's of a company who has no clue what there doing? They know their market... well enough for most purposes but far from ideally. Cases in point: Windows Vista, Windows 8.
That is a far cry from saying no clue.
Also may I ask why you want them to fail? Do you not like having the option of multiple devices on which to play games?
I don't want for them to fail, I pointed out that in the past they have failed badly. Another case in point: Apple is now worth more than Microsoft.
And FYI I am strictly a PC gamer. I own no platforms. This will not affect me.
I am aware you did not state you want them to fail but that is the feeling that I am getting from your posts.
The feeling that I am getting from your posts is you don't understand why people don't like the always connected thing.
[+]
By Artemicion 2013-04-08 12:11:59
You're right. The customers should vote with their wallet. And I intend to.
However, what bothers me is not so much how much this little system functionality/feature will affect me, but rather how little hesitation or reluctance you have to these unnecessarily imposed compromises or limitations to your freedom to play games or use the device at all; regardless of how improbable it is to you, because to others it will be a big problem.
Sure, the world will keep spinning, MS will make millions, and you and many others will fork out the cash for your shiny new system. But you shouldn't so calmly accept any detriment to the users; especially when it is outright unnecessary and holds virtually little to no benefit to either side of the spectrum.
YouTube Video Placeholder
[+]
Cerberus.Tikal
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4947
By Cerberus.Tikal 2013-04-08 12:13:22
Except it's not 99% of the time for a lot of folks, and some ISPs charge by the minute. My internet goes down at least four times a week while I'm playing, and yeah, that'd piss me off if I'm playing a single player game and it kicks me off because my internet cuts out.
Shiva.Gib
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1264
By Shiva.Gib 2013-04-08 12:20:19
also about OS's
here is the thing, with Vista, it wasn't 'bad' it was just poorly optimized. So I'm sure that 95% of the time when you hear about terrible performance, i'm sure the person was using a low end computer, or a laptop. Not defending it, but if you didn't cheap out on a machine, chances are you didn't have problems.
Also Windows 8... I wish more people would use the damn thing other then see picture of Metro and freak out. Point is besides the start bar looking all wacky. Windows 8 is the cleanest and leanest OS they have ever put out, and for gaming it actually outperforms Windows 7 and has native DX11 support.
but of course this is the internet, and it's easier to *** about something then actually take the 5-10 mins to learn the new shortcuts/use the search feature in Windows 8
By Gavlin 2013-04-08 12:21:47
I want to point out that I play games on everyting from Xbox,PC to Playstation. We have friends over and break out board games like Taboo, and Win lose or Draw.
I love having option's not all options are good, but I want them.
I wish sega would not have had a decade of mediocrity thus leading to there demise. As I loved some of the games on those consoles as well.
Microsoft unlike Sega can afford mediocrity if that is indeed what they end up producing with this console. Really I the consumer still win cause even then there will still be games within the lifespan of that console that I am sure I along with others will love.
Shiva.Gib
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1264
By Shiva.Gib 2013-04-08 12:23:20
You're right. The customers should vote with their wallet. And I intend to.
However, what bothers me is not so much how much this little system functionality/feature will affect me, but rather how little hesitation or reluctance you have to these unnecessarily imposed compromises or limitations to your freedom to play games or use the device at all.
Sure, the world will keep spinning, MS will make millions, and you and many others will fork out the cash for your shiny new system. But you shouldn't so calmly accept any detriment to the users; especially when it is outright unnecessary and holds virtually little to no benefit to either side of the spectrum.
YouTube Video Placeholder again, this isn't even offical, and how do you know that there will not be any added value to a always on connection? you could actually wait for an offical word before you go all doom prophet.
Shiva.Gib
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1264
By Shiva.Gib 2013-04-08 12:25:58
Except it's not 99% of the time for a lot of folks, and some ISPs charge by the minute. My internet goes down at least four times a week while I'm playing, and yeah, that'd piss me off if I'm playing a single player game and it kicks me off because my internet cuts out. sadly Microsoft sees you as an acceptable loss... if this "always on' thing is even true mind you.
By Artemicion 2013-04-08 12:26:20
I'm not confirming or denying what MS is or is not doing with their system.
That's up for grabs still, and I understand that.
What I am however exclaiming is your inability or outright denial to practice your power as a consumer.
One shouldn't accept ***, rumored or not, with conformity and lukewarm reception, followed by false equivalences and other logical fallacies.
You reserve the right to call people and companies alike out on their ***. Especially when the proposed scenario is unacceptable to even the most fundamental of demands.
While yet unconfirmed, the evidence is surmounting. And while this problem will seldom affect me, doesn't make it any more acceptable.
Shiva.Gib
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1264
By Shiva.Gib 2013-04-08 12:29:50
I'm not confirming or denying what MS is or is not doing with their system.
That's up for grabs still, and I understand that.
What I am however exclaiming is your inability or outright denial to practice your power as a consumer.
One shouldn't accept ***, rumored or not, with conformity and lukewarm reception, followed by false equivalences and other logical fallacies. again, console games are not a god given right, you don't like it, don't buy it, I would imagine if anything that IS the ultimate power you have as a consumer... it's not like this is water or electricity and your quality of life will degrade without it.
I mean, unless you do see videogames on par with that... then... Priorities bro, look into those.
By Artemicion 2013-04-08 12:30:20
I'm not confirming or denying what MS is or is not doing with their system.
That's up for grabs still, and I understand that.
What I am however exclaiming is your inability or outright denial to practice your power as a consumer.
One shouldn't accept ***, rumored or not, with conformity and lukewarm reception, followed by false equivalences and other logical fallacies. again, console games are not a god given right, you don't like it, don't buy it, I would imagine if anything that IS the ultimate power you have as a consumer... it's not like this is water or electricity and your quality of life will degrade without it.
I mean, unless you do see videogames on par with that... then... Priorities bro, look into those.
Cerberus.Tikal
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4947
By Cerberus.Tikal 2013-04-08 12:30:31
No skin off my nose.
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15066
By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2013-04-08 12:30:38
If it's online only, I'll be sitting out
Shiva.Gib
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1264
By Shiva.Gib 2013-04-08 12:34:45
ok, so you're taking the route of "I don't like something that doesn't effect me, so everyone else sucks that doesn't think like me. I have my fingers in my ears I can't hearrrrr yooouuuu"
Gotcha
Cerberus.Tikal
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4947
By Cerberus.Tikal 2013-04-08 12:36:09
No, he's saying get the fatalistic ball-gag out of your mouth. It's making you look pretty whipped.
I'm probably paraphrasing.
Shiva.Gib
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1264
By Shiva.Gib 2013-04-08 12:39:44
No, he's saying get the fatalistic ball-gag out of your mouth. It's making you look pretty whipped.
I'm probably paraphrasing. I look whipped? because I've been using Online DRM for at least 8 years and there is no deal with it and I know from first hand experience that you console people are freaking out over nothing? that makes me whipped?
no that makes me informed, unlike the paranoid masses here that are being like 'OMG THIS IS DIFFERENT, LET'S ALL PANIC'
By Gavlin 2013-04-08 12:40:30
Artemicion you seem very well educated. So my logic may be a little to low brow for youself. As I am simply a blue-collared working father of two.
All I am saying is everyone seems so quick to judge or deem this unnecessary when we have yet to see what it even is or can do. Or even why they are doing it in the first place.
I support new idea's there have been alot of things over the years that have been deemed unnecessary that have changed the world for the better. That is why I dont feel I have the right to judge a device or even idea before it has been produced. My rights fall like yours within my wallet. I hope that helps you see were at least I am coming from.
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 33979
By Bismarck.Dracondria 2013-04-08 12:42:04
What you don't seem to understand is that by doing this they'll lose a lot of customers who have ***internet or no internet because it's not available where they live. All they want to do is play a game offline but because of this they can't, meaning microsoft will likely lose a lot of customers. People who can't play with always-on and people who won't support a company that *** over their customers this way. There are more of them than you think.
[+]
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10394
By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2013-04-08 12:44:45
ok, so you're taking the route of "I don't like something that doesn't effect me, so everyone else sucks that doesn't think like me. I have my fingers in my ears I can't hearrrrr yooouuuu"
Gotcha
Tell me, whats the advantage as a customer for the manufacturer to have complete control overva product I purchased? In that case why not stop selling consoles and lease them out in 2-4 year contracts? If you havent noticed the strings that have been attached to the cellphone market quickly have been giving way to no frills, freedom centric business models.
Why should consoles be going retrograde?
The deal is when I buy a console, i do so to play games without being ropeadoped into having internet. If the manufacturer wants to offer perks like an online shop, subs or whatever other boohs come with being online - fine. But dont hand me you must be online or your console is a 400 dollar brick.
PC gaming and tablets have already eaten into consoles and this just goes further into heavyhanded control masked under the guise of stopping piracy. Protip: It wont.
[+]
By Artemicion 2013-04-08 12:44:53
I understand where you're coming from Gav, but I don't see any real compromise in this proposal of an always-on mandate.
I'd be a bit more understanding and apologetic if this feature were necessary to reduce system costs and thus affecting the price tag in the end, much like PS3's lack of backwards compatibility did.
However, I see no such silver lining with this. This ultimately serves no purpose or benefit to the user other than enabling Microsoft to alienate legitimate players and help assure they're not making Linux boxes like people did with their initial Xbox.
So, there is a console-war about to kick off, and a few opening rounds have been fired, with more to come in the ensuing months.
However, one of those rounds fired was aimed straight at the consumer base...huh? Thats right, Microsoft employee Adam Orth, newly crowned hero to Sony/Nintendo fans, spouted off on Twitter last night, attacking, well everyone.
Let me give some background information first. Officially, the next xbox has not been announced and all of the information pertaining to it is strictly "rumored." Two of the biggest rumors are mandatory Kinect ( Lengthy Video) and Always online. ( Always online article)
The always online rumors have really picked up of late, and after the disasterous SimCity launch, fan feedback has been largely negative towards the idea. Hostility amplified with the latest article stating that if the xbox lost internet for 3 minutes, the game would stop and players would no longer be able to play. Again, I stress that these are rumors, and they have been posted by Kotaku, not exactly reliable.
Well ladies and gentleman, hard working Adam Orth did not take too kindly to such hostility, breaking normal company policy and addressing said hostile reactions on twitter. Hilarity ensues: Huh? Even Amandarius makes more sense than this. But he wasn't done, in what will do more for Sony's PS4 than their marketing team could ever do, he posted this response to a Bioware employee:
Quote: "Sorry, I don't get the drama around having an 'always-on' console," he said. "Every device is now 'always-on'. #dealwithit"  Well then, ok. So far I have been completely neutral regarding next gen, but this was almost enough to push me to pre-ordering a PS4. How is that for dealing with it, Adam?
Microsoft has sense issued an apology: Quote: "We apologize for the inappropriate comments made by an employee on Twitter yesterday. This person is not a spokesperson for Microsoft, and his personal views do not reflect the customer centric approach we take to our products or how we would communicate directly with our loyal consumers. We are very sorry if this offended anyone, however we have not made any announcements about our product roadmap, and have no further comment on this matter." Not a spokesperson, ok, but still an employee, and your name is on his tweets. This is going to be a marketing disaster for Microsoft, I can just see E3 now, Sony rolls out Kevin Butler for an Adam Orth roast. Even if these rumors turn out to not be true, and they are looking more and more credible, else why would an employee even address them, Microsoft has a pretty big hole to climb out of because of this one man. I expect him to resign soon enough, too little too late. IGN Source article. Feel free to discuss, I am going to find a battery operated vacuum cleaner.
Edit - Adam Orth is a Creative Director at Microsoft.
Edited for clarification.
|
|
