IiPunch - Monk Guide
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iiPunch - Monk Guide
Seems the jury is still out on this then, huh?
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What you quoted was an explanation of why Asuran gets a larger increase from Adoulin weapons than Spiral does.
So I don't see what your post has anything to do with it. Unless you're saying my claim is wrong. Don't typically agree with Pchan/disagree with Mot, but I can't produce the results anyone is claiming
Isn't happening yet, but as weapon D increases Asuran is destined to pull ahead of Shijin as WSC becomes less and less important to increasing base damage and Asuran's relatively substantial fTP lead over Shijin starts to flaunt its stuff.
Pretty sure this is already happening with Evisceration and Exenterator, but I haven't done maths im doing just over 3k to VT mandies outside town atm with Asuran Fists with rcb, zerk/imp/focus/agg up. pretty sure not using a decent gearset for it either.
Rigor/Potestas Thurandaut/Justiciar's/Moonshade/Ghille+1 Tantra+2/Melee+2/Rajas/Mars Atheling/Caudata/Thaumas/Thaumas Valefor.Prothescar said: » Isn't happening yet, but as weapon D increases Asuran is destined to pull ahead of Shijin as WSC becomes less and less important to increasing base damage and Asuran's relatively substantial fTP lead over Shijin starts to flaunt its stuff. Pretty sure this is already happening with Evisceration and Exenterator, but I haven't done maths No doubt that it's inevitable, but I'd like to know how people are producing these results Just did a Salvage run. Was doing around 3000-3500 with both Asuran and Shijin. Not enough samples to call it an average, and lots of variation in the conditions, obviously, but I'm definitely seeing them as quite similar.
Doing lair reives earlier, was doing 900-1000 on nests with asuran, 700-900 with Shijin. Also, Kaparu, this only applies once you're using Rigor Baghnakhs; it's not a general statement for all mnks. Not sure if you're taking that into account. Anyone have a good Asuran set? I'll look at the numbers rq and see what kind of weapon D we'd need to make it better than Shijin
Valefor.Prothescar said: » Anyone have a good Asuran set? I'll look at the numbers rq and see what kind of weapon D we'd need to make it better than Shijin Fenrir.Motenten said: » Just did a Salvage run. Was doing around 3000-3500 with both Asuran and Shijin. Not enough samples to call it an average, and lots of variation in the conditions, obviously, but I'm definitely seeing them as quite similar. Doing lair reives earlier, was doing 900-1000 on nests with asuran, 700-900 with Shijin. Also, Kaparu, this only applies once you're using Rigor Baghnakhs; it's not a general statement for all mnks. Not sure if you're taking that into account. Accounted for. I'm getting close-ish results, mind you, but nothing that suggests Asuran is leading unless you're stripped of your DEX Edit: I'm getting ~40 DPS lead with Shijin against Delve fodder Asuran Set
Manibozoho Jerkin (augemtned with atk str acc) Manibozoho Brais (augemtned with atk str acc) Manibozoho Boots (augemtned with atk str acc) Justiciars Torque Prosilio Belt Melee gloves +2 Pyrosoul rings x2 Potestas Bomblet Ghille earrings +1 x2 Vespid Mantle. Edit: oops, I'd recommend Chocaliztli or Whirlpool mask. With a greater lean toward Choccaliztli if acc is not a issue. You don't have a hat.
Don't have time right now for a thorough check, but I will agree that the numbers I'm seeing today aren't as close as they were yesterday. However I've been messing with the spreadsheet a bunch, and may have missed some condition.
Still, though, I'm only seeing a ~13 DPS difference against Delve fodder, not 40. Gear I put in for a quick comparison when acc is largely accounted for elsewhere:
Potestas Nemetona Gorget Bladeborn Ghillie +1 Thurandaut Melee +2 Rajas Spiral Atheling Caudata Manibozho Tantra +2 Not including any augments on stuff right now. I think I remember the two Pyrosouls doing better than Rajas+Spiral, too. Fenrir.Motenten said: » Gear I put in for a quick comparison when acc is largely accounted for elsewhere: Potestas Nemetona Gorget Bladeborn Ghillie +1 Thurandaut Melee +2 Rajas Spiral Atheling Caudata Manibozho Tantra +2 Not including any augments on stuff right now. I think I remember the two Pyrosouls doing better than Rajas+Spiral, too. Asuran Set Manibozoho Jerkin (augemtned with atk str acc) Manibozoho Brais (augemtned with atk str acc) Manibozoho Boots (augemtned with atk str acc) Justiciars Torque Prosilio Belt Melee gloves +2 Pyrosoul rings x2 Potestas Bomblet Ghille earrings +1 x2 Vespid Mantle. Edit: oops, I'd recommend Chocaliztli or Whirlpool mask. With a greater lean toward Choccaliztli if acc is not a issue. Whirlpool isn't an option til someone can actually get one. Not going to include that on any comparison yet. Will be a bit before I can do a thorough review of the numbers.
Touchè
Not being a ***.
Touchè
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we'll assume a lv99 hume mnk/war
before weapon D on fodder Shijin base dmg: 51 + 153 + 19 = 223 * 5.3125 = 1184 Asuran base dmg: 51 + 24 + 19 = 94 * 8 = 752 on delve eft Shijin base dmg: 51 + 153 + 5 = 209 * 5.3125 = 1110 Asuran base dmg: 51 + 24 + 10 = 85 * 8 = 680 with weapon D Rigors on fodder Shijin base dmg: 152 + 153 + 19 = 324 * 5.3125 = 1721 Asuran base dmg: 152 + 24 + 19 = 195 * 8 = 1560 on delve eft Shijin base dmg: 152 + 153 + 5 = 310 * 5.3125 = 1646 Asuran base dmg: 152 + 24 + 10 = 186 * 8 = 1488 Oatixur on fodder Shijin base dmg: 197 + 153 + 19 = 369 * 5.3125 = 1960 Asuran base dmg: 197 + 24 + 19 = 240 * 8 = 1920 on delve eft Shijin base dmg: 197 + 153 + 5 = 355 * 5.3125 = 1885 Asuran base dmg: 197 + 24 + 10 = 231 * 8 = 1848 Hypothetical 169D weapon on fodder Shijin base dmg: 220 + 153 + 19 = 392 * 5.3125 = 2082 Asuran base dmg: 220 + 24 + 19 = 263 * 8 = 2104 on delve eft Shijin base dmg: 220 + 153 + 5 = 378 * 5.3125 = 2008 Asuran base dmg: 220 + 24 + 10 = 254 * 8 = 2032 Hypothetically speaking, the next content level's set of weapons could bump Asuran very slightly over Shijin, or maybe blast it away if they decide to make another leap into the stratosphere which would be *** stupid. I'd also hypothesize that Shijin loses a lot more than Asuran does when having to stack on extra ACC due to Shijin likely losing a good chunk of WSC in the deal. If nothing else this should illustrate the relative boost that Asuran gets from high weapon D compared to Shijin (with both WSs suffering from mostly stagnant WSC growth). Two important points
1) Asuran has the passive advantage of increasing WS frequency 2) The assumed attack bonus on Shijin Spiral probably doesn't exist I don't know where the inflection point lies but if you're getting 10-40 dps differences using Shijin Spiral and the attack bonus is nonexistent as I expect it is - well you're already working with a pretty small window in the first place The attack bonus comes from SE's one words. The ability to boost dex the way you want makes shijin superior because att and acc equally affects it (as well as str since you are never fstr capped).
I do recall the Bayohne post mentioning an attack boost effect - but I don't know if perhaps it was a mistranslation from the original Japanese or if this only applied to the test server and it was never implemented or something
I'll look for the original japanese post Fenrir.Sylow said: » I do recall the Bayohne post mentioning an attack boost effect - but I don't know if perhaps it was a mistranslation from the original Japanese or if this only applied to the test server and it was never implemented or something I'll look for the original japanese post Pro's results line up pretty well with what I'm getting
I'll wait for Mot to followup, but I'd tentatively say that Asuran is a no-go with Rigor's Looking through the JP forums - I have determined a couple of things
1) JP OFs are just as bad with the mage-melee as EN OFs because half of this thread is bitching about Realmrazer 2) The original JP post does mention an attack boost - however it's followed by some posts from JPs asking the community reps to confirm that an attack bonus was implemented because their testing suggests that the WS just has "weird ftp" and not an actual boost to raw attack eg http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/17510-dev1049-%E6%96%B0%E3%81%9F%E3%81%AA%E3%82%A6%E3%82%A7%E3%83%9D%E3%83%B3%E3%82%B9%E3%82%AD%E3%83%AB%E3%81%AE%E8%BF%BD%E5%8A%A0-%E3%81%AB%E3%81%A4%E3%81%84%E3%81%A6-%E3%83%86%E3%82%B9%E3%83%88%E3%82%B5%E3%83%BC%E3%83%90?p=240814&viewfull=1#post240814 http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/17510-dev1049-%E6%96%B0%E3%81%9F%E3%81%AA%E3%82%A6%E3%82%A7%E3%83%9D%E3%83%B3%E3%82%B9%E3%82%AD%E3%83%AB%E3%81%AE%E8%BF%BD%E5%8A%A0-%E3%81%AB%E3%81%A4%E3%81%84%E3%81%A6-%E3%83%86%E3%82%B9%E3%83%88%E3%82%B5%E3%83%BC%E3%83%90?p=241376&viewfull=1#post241376 JP wiki also seems to suggest that Shijin Spiral does not have an attack bonus and I am unable to produce any testing that shows the 5% attack bonus we've all been assuming The 5% att boost is not what makes shijin superior you know. It could be SE mixing attack boost and ftp boost (since shijin has 1.06 ftp and not 1).
That's probably what it is because they are inconsistent with their terminology even in-game on the subject
For the record - I wasn't claiming the superiority of either weapon skill - I was just mentioning it for the purpose of anyone attempting to do calculations for any specific situation where attack differences would matter and assuming I really hope I'm overlooking something and that Mot is absolutely right
Nothing would make me happier than the resurgence of Taru Asuran Fisting(w) To be fair if they're as close as the two of your calculations are suggesting it does make Asuran Fists worth using as a skillchain option where applicable
If the upcoming stat changes are the same as 2hander's bonus for str/dex for attack/acc; and being able to have Fogressor up full time, what kind of gearing options does this open us to?
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