For The Shinies! A Guide For Thief

Again, I plan on taking the time to work through the THF spreadsheet so I can answer these questions for myself, but this is interesting. I would expect Pugi to come ahead of STR Thokcha when you're fSTR and PDIF capped, at least for the TP phase. If it's not, then that would imply the base damage of Pugi is simply too low. Alternatively, if Pugi does come ahead in the TP phase but is lower overall, then it sounds like the damage from Mercy Stroke is increased enough by the STR Thokcha to offset the triple attack bonus allowing you to WS more often. If that is the case, then maybe Pugi would be a more useful choice if you didn't have a Mandau.

Either way, I'm not disagreeing with your results, considering you have the spreadsheet, I don't, and I also don't have all the weapon damage formulae in front of me right now. It's just intriguing information to find. Of course, YOU were the first one to mention Pugiunculus, so I guess it's news for you too :)

I think you are reading what I said backwards lol. Pug is better than STR dagger.

darn it >< i did read it backwards

Question:

How much Triple Attack Damage bonus would a Chiner's Belt have to possess in order for it to beat Prosilio/Wanion belt for AC-SA>Mercy?

I know its not going to be the same for all situations, But lets say you're fighting a T3 Jeuno VW as a baseline. maybe throw in EP/DC Dynamis Mobs?

Currently, its Triple Attack value is unknown, But I want/plan to test it, and hopefully get a number. I'm expecting 2-3% like most of the things we see today... But I'm just wondering where that puts it for a strong 1-hit WS with Assassin's Charge.

It's pretty nice when you combine it the other pieces. I currently have 11/tick (like 0/75 on scuta cape) and garden bangles are another 1/tick in the day time, not sure about the hq(neither are ever on AH here).

I'm getting Cavaros slightly above Nifty in the Solo SA Goal Set.

Also Cavaros beating Aife's in the Solo TA Goal Set.

Very minor upgrades tbh, but worth noting as using Cavaros can save you one vital inventory space.

Edit, nvm it was just on my set not what you posted. Worth playing around with sets though incase you can save space.

Just looking through sets, why wouldn't Khepri jacket be the best for Rudras? Compared to Athos's, it's the same damage increase (assuming 5% augment), the same dex, more acc, and +15 str.

Not sure if this was mentioned or not, but I can't see how Athos's could even compete.

edit: word error

It doesn't, obvious oversight with OP?

That is correct, and I have it marked down in my notes to change. For all the gear swaps I am actively considering I am independently verifying them with a spreadsheet, since quite a few of the gear swaps are not as obvious as Khepri. I am also planning on writing significantly more information for each gear set.

You can see that sort of change between the TP and solo SA sets and the other sets, but I haven't made it through all the sets yet - it takes a LOT of time and mental energy to cross-check gear against various monster loadouts and forum threads. Sure, I should have done that the first time around, but too late now :(

While we're at it, I made it a lot more obvious which sets have come under criticism and need work. It looks pretty bad, but it's better than people getting the wrong ideas ><

I only get Cavaros ahead of Nifty if you're attack capped. Is that the case for you as well?

To get the best SA/TA sets (assuming you're using it while you're attacking normally, not just running in to SA/TA), switch the cells F-G 4-5 to Solo on the Setup tab and look at the overall DPS. If you are only running in to SA/TA, then I suppose you could just look at "Round DMG," which will include the DA/TA/QA/offhand hits.

That said, Atheling should beat both overall.

I was looking at the pure SA damage, not the SA round damage figure. Atheling winning slightly now, thanks for spotting this. :)

I guess a lot of it depends on your target mob too, if attack capped and what not. When attack capped Cavaros > Nifty > Atheling is what I'm getting on the spreadsheets.

I recently changed my SA and TA sets for dyna cause I was getting massive delay with next round (heca and none haste belt etc), it's made a huge difference putting in more haste thanks to this guide.

It will also depend on the rest of what you're wearing too, to be honest. My bad, but I did not check Malizia's original post to realize that she updated the ideal SA set; using Skadi +1 body is an improvement on Athos that I did not consider, and it does happen to skew some results towards Nifty (although down the of enemy targets, the differences between either one when ahead or behind is so minimal I really hate to say which to actually call "best"). I think it's a similar difference between Jupiter's Pearl and Brutal Earring, so I think both the earring and cape are worth a mention in the alternatives.

I was looking at the SA round damage figure as well. Actually, I was looking at both - the "single hit damage" gear swap listings are based on the pure SA numbers, but it should be no surprise based on the listed set that the rest is based on the round damage. I too was surprised about Skadi +1 body, but apparently the Dual Wield makes a huge difference.

That being said, yes, Atheling and Brutal Earring came in very close, and though I didn't find situations where they came out ahead, I wouldn't be surprised if there is a situation where they do. I'll include those as you suggested.

Bumping with notable equip for THF! I honestly didn't look into these -too- closely, so please mention if you don't get similar results.

Thurandaut chapeau: Second best headpiece (sometimes best) for SA Mercy, compared to a perfectly augmented Hecatomb +1; potentially something to consider for TP phase depending on DW.

Thurandaut tabard: Best Exen body.

Thurandaut gloves: Best Exen gloves only if you're otherwise wearing 3/5 Thaumas or less. Basically, if you replace Thaumas Hat with Choca, this will be better than Thaumas Gloves. Until then though, stick with Thaumas.

Thurandaut tights: Best Exen if capping attack and fSTR, which isn't the norm, even on Dynamis DC for me. I'd generally stick with Thaumas.

Thurandaut boots: Ummm. Just glad I didn't waste Staghorn Corals on Khepri Gamashes.

chocaliztli mask: Best headpiece for Exen and TA Mercy; reasonable TP headpiece (as in, pretty much +/- with Nemetona, Skadi +1, and Khepri depending on situation), but I'm assuming it's going to be difficult to get, so you're probably better off with easier choices like Neme or Skadi +1.

xux trousers: Mmm, best evasion hybrid pants?

Haven't looked at daggers yet and, since nothing totally stuck out to me, I probably won't for a while.

Thurandaut Tabard: Best Exen body.


Seems very nice. I guess folks are saying it is easy to obtain also. I tend to stay away from new content for a good month just to avoid massive congestion and wait out all the emergency maintenance. Thanks for the post looks to be some semi ok pieces.

Depending on the best augments you can get on Leisilonu this has potential to beat STR Thokcha in the offhand slot. Something to keep an eye on as more info becomes available.

I think a lot of those pieces are going to be the new best SA/TA solo pieces too. Also, I'm really hoping to find the time to do the WS sets this weekend, and I'll be sure to mention the new Adoulin gear, at least for the "Goal" sets.

any idea how these are aquired?

Probably from some of the Elemental Bosses.

Though currently unknown. Hoping we get word soon on those Augmentable weapons... Like the Leisilonu.

With all these new stupid high DMG daggers, is making Mandau still worth it?

No one can answer that right now, we just have to wait and see.

I don't see the new Macoquetza winning against Mandau99 in spreadsheet, even dropping SA/TA WS off the list and spamming Exen. The loss in melee DPS and WS frequency is too high to make up for with increased WS damage, which isn't much, and is in fact less on higher level monsters because of the attack on Mandau. Does not compare when adding in stacked WS. (Although I'm honestly not optimizing sets for Maco, but it's so far behind that I don't think I could come up with enough gear to make up the difference).

Edit: To put some perspective into it, Dynamis DC, sub DNC, using RCB, with Haste, spamming nothing but Exen with ideal TP/Exen sets:
Mandau99/Twash99: 343.642
Maco/Twash99: 305.152

Not worth considering as an offhand dagger either.

On another note, suddenly remembering that the cRatio cap was raised for one-handed weapons, I'm putting Prosilio belt back in my SA Mercy set.

Edit: No way to tell how Leisilonu will be until we see augments, but it has potential to be a great offhand.

Big update! Here's the changelist over the last couple of weeks:

* Extra note to Collaborator about using against primary DDs
* Abyssea section added links, and notes about Aeolian Edge
* small edits to Dynamis section
* linked to Flippant's post about Pugiunculus
* redid table formatting for equipment sets
* added significant information on every equipment set

And added / modified the following sets, even taking into account the new Adoulin gear:
* TP
* SA/TA solo
* PDT
* Mercy Stroke SA/TA
* Rudra's Storm SA/TA


What's left:
* Exenterator sets
* Evisceration sets
* Regen set
* Evasion Hybrid set

There's also the new daggers, but I'm not going to worry about them until we have more information about them.

/Cheer, looking forward to more updates. just getting warmed up to Seekers. TY (*^.^*)

Question: Is this using the D:64 Post Update Dagger, or the D:58 Pre-update one?

And would a STR Kila or Aluh Jambiya be a better offhand since you're losing the 40 Attack Mandau offets?

64 DMG, hence "new" Maco.

Changing Maco's offhand to STR Thokcha drops DPS to 298.190, but it's also losing 5% crit rate in the exchange. Adding 5 DEX back because I don't like relying on the sweet spot, it increases to 303.355, much closer than I would have imagined to a 99 Twash--I suppose because we're dealing with a different delay than we normally consider. Aluh with the 5 DEX is 299.638.

However, you got me to thinking about Puguinculus to offset the large delay. That bumps Maco's DPS up to 317.988 with the 5 DEX.

Then I noticed that in the case of spamming Exen and not getting caught by SA/TA timers, Pug is apparently a better offhand than 99 Twash, bumping Mandau's DPS to 358.563 (again, with 5 DEX, although it comes ahead even without).

Either way, I can't get Maco to catch up, even in the situation you can't use SA or TA. It appears to be a better mainhand than Aluh and Thokcha though.

Would Mandau/90 Twash beat STR Thokcha?

Edit for bad wording.. want to know 90 Twash beats STR Thok in offhand.

It will depend on if your attack/fSTR is capped, which is less relevant now after the patch to one-handed PDIF, and if you're in the dDEX sweet spot. I'd default to STR Thokcha on most things.

Hide does work on NMs. I use it to hide NMs in Dynamis.