For The Shinies! A Guide For Thief

Shark dagger means you can get rid of Exenterator merits! Yay freeing up limited space!

I tried everything I could before posting this to make sure I was right about this... I didn't want it to be true either but sadly it is... It's actually funny, before the update to 1handers Suppa and Brutal were the way to go, but somehow getting more acc and att from the update changed all of that and these earring now beat the combo. Don't ask me how that happened, Foldypaws and I were both trying to figure it out and couldn't.


You are right about the Mandau if you have Izhiikoh, sooner or later though the relic updates are going to happen and that will be that. But if you don't have Izhiikoh/Aphotic STR R15, then Mandau/Aphotic STR R15 is the next best.

I'll change the set to reflect that.

Also the best TAMS and SAMS sets I could find are:
ItemSet 308352ItemSet 29528
Kinda funny the sets are exactly the same, but that is the benefit of having an STR WS.
Technically, having Izhiikoh would be a better sub but you should use that as a main weapon until the REM weapon update (if/when that ever happens) if you have it.
These also assume Khepri are augmented and the Manibozho are completed STR path.
GL getting the earrings and the Khepri though.

For those who don't know where to get the DPS calculators:
Kinematics FFXI DPS Calculators

It's best to be honest about what your fighting and what buffs your probably getting... THF isn't going to be in any Tojil runs in the current stage of the game... the highest mobs you will probably fight on THF are Delve Fodder or the new Wildskeeper Reives. A THF would be LUCKY to get in a DD party with a COR, or BRD. The best a THF is usually getting is the BLM pt with a pity haste... It's sad but true... I am not trying to put the job down, it's my most loved job but I prefer to be realistic when it comes to what I will be doing with it.

Keep in mind I said usually, I know that people can get lucky or be in a shell that will slip you into the COR and/or BRD pt but those spots are usually reserved to 2handers and MNKs. Even with the 1hander update, the stigma of dual wielders is probably still going to stick around for a while if it ever goes away at all.

It's the accuracy/attack, yes I'm serious. The accuracy especially is nice with new content.

Also it looks like Bure are great for new stuff, but only beat out Skadi +1 on anything higher than level 102 Chapuli in spreadsheet (it's very close, Skadi pull ahead by a few dps on older content). So, if you're in fracture or fighting stuff in Yorcia/Marjami, seems like Bura will be a noticable improvement. Basically, if you need accuracy, go with Bure, if not, Skadi. That's what I'm getting out of it.

There's a chance my sets weren't optimal though. I was getting higher numbers with Uk hat/Patentia than Thura/Twilight and I haven't really bothered optimizing for old content, so take it with a grain of salt.

I took my THF into Tojil run last weekend, was not happy with the results. Against Tojil, I did 13% while the SAM was 21%, MNKs were 19%, 16% and 13%(died). DRG was 15%. Mercy was doing 1.5k the first 25%, about 8k the second 25% when it's weak to piercing and 4k the rest of the time. Don't think I got chaos rolls though, though I did pop RCB and berserk. Exenterator was doing laughable damage the whole way through, doing about 1/3 to 1/2 the damage of Mercy Stroke.

Not to say that THF DD was ever amazing, but the further we're forced to go on without upgrading Mercy Stroke, the further behind we'll fall.

BTW, there is no 'best' set anymore. Everything depends on a varying degree of accuracy that's required. If you really want to optimize your set, you have to use spellcast and set every slot to a variable, then allow yourself to change that variable as you go along. Personally, I change gear in and out depending on what mob I'm fighting(and how much accuracy I need), then push a button and that set becomes my new TP set. It works really well.

Yeah, at the moment I cast a fake spell whenever I want to swap back to TP gear, and it changes according to target/zone. It beats the ***out of having multiple macros for TP gear.

I was looking at the exenterator sets posted on page 1 of this guide and for the HQ set it has Thaumas hat, and for the QQ set it has whirlpool mask. Is Thaumas Hat really better than chocaliztli mask for exenterator? I can't see how.

It might be taking into account the bonuses for multiple pieces of Thaumas armor? I see one set has 3 pieces (+5 stats) and another has 4 (+10 stats).

At any rate, after the update Whirlpool Mask is going to be:

DEF:102 HP+38 MP+23
STR+24 DEX+20 VIT+22 AGI+20 INT+19 MND+19 CHR+19
Accuracy+25 Attack+25
Evasion+33 Magic Evasion+43 Magic Defense+2
Subtle Blow+4 Haste+7%

I don't think any of those sets consider any of the new wildskeeper gear, either.

Honestly, both Uk'uxkaj cap and whirlpool mask(even post-update) are neck-and-neck for Exenerator. Depends on your stat needs. If you are attack capped on Exenerator the former should win, if not latter will.

For older content and fodder mobs, if i only have a Twashtar what would be my best combo

Twashtar/Aphotic

Aphotic/Twashtar

Aphotic/pugi

*Twashtar is only 85

chocaliztli mask wasn't included in the HQ set because it came from a Wildskeeper Reive. Only the QQ sets include Wildskeeper pieces, but I'm thinking of downgrading some Wildskeeper to the HQ level. If you do have Choco Mask, it'll be better than Thaumas.

I might be off since I'm not checking with a spreadsheet, but since your Twashtar is only 85 I'd say Aphotic / Pugi. If it was 99 I'd go Aphotic / Twashtar. I don't think you'll ever see Twashtar / Aphotic win.


And yes, I know there's an update coming out very soon (tomorrow!) so it'll be time to redo all the sets again.

Aphotic got quite a bit better. I believe the stats on it only apply to the hand wielding it though, unless I'm mistaken? I'm going to play around with it in mainhand for a bit I think, better Exenterators and Eviscerations! Because *** using food in Abyssea.

Also Shark dagger/Aphotic just got even sexier, damn.

My understanding is only the "dagger skill +x" only applies to the hand wielding it. All the other stats - STR, acc, evasion, and parry - will apply normally.

As for guide news:
* Motenten finished updating spreadsheets (yay!) so the only thing blocking guide updates is me being super busy (boo!).
* No, I have no idea how long it is going to take for everything to be updated, but I would not expect every set to be updated for at least a month.
* I'm planning to update sets in this order: TP > Exent > Evis > Mercy > SA/TA > Rudra.
* HQ/QQ Evisceration sets will be designed for endgame content instead of Abyssea.
* I'm thinking I'll downgrade lower-tier Wildskeeper gear to HQ, especially now that there's a quest to choose an item from it. Even though Wildskeeper gear is shout-group-obtainable, the difficulty of finding such groups (your server may vary), the time it takes to kill the Wildskeepers, and the luck involved in getting the drop you want makes it not really NQ-tier gear.

Been looking into non-Delve sets mostly, as I personally don't use my THF for Delve (or really anything Adoulin related), so this post is focusing on situations where you can expect attack, accuracy, and fSTR to be capped. That said, the sets aren't much different when you account for Delve fodder, as with even just Minuets, you should be pretty close to cap on attack and fSTR (and certainly capped on accuracy).

As mentioned, with higher damage weapons, Eviseration comes much closer to Exenterator; I also heard claims that it is better than Exen, but especially after this update, I cannot find that to be true unless you're up against Delve bosses. I may be overlooking some gear though, so please point anything out that I missed (not including new Skirmish gear yet, but from a quick glance, that should benefit Exen even more).

Evisceration sets:

ItemSet 158860

ItemSet 310387

ItemSet 310389

Exenterator sets:

ItemSet 239907

ItemSet 308072

ItemSet 308073

Note: These are all as Hume DNC sub and not best for every situation. Other races and WAR sub will definitely change results for some things, like accessories, which are very volatile. For Delve WS sets, the only consistent difference I can find is Manibohzo R15 for all WS.

The difference between the two weaponskills is much larger than the difference that was once between Exen and unstacked 99 Mercy. As you go into uncapped scenarios, the difference greatly decreases and, depending on buffs, Evis begins to outdo Exen by a relatively small margin on bosses (note: I may have not been optimizing sets perfectly in this case either, though).

So although it may be worthwhile to allocate the merits to something else, it's is still the best THF WS for now.



On another note, as the difference between unstacked and stacked WS damage is decreasing, I began to wonder if it's worth stacking WS anymore at all.

-Level 102 Chapuli, haste+marches-

Stacking Exens: 922.760
Only TA Exen: 916.997
Not stacking: 910.643

Stacking Evis: 898.920
Only SA Evis: 901.085
Not stacking: 896.531

-Level 102 Chapuli, haste only-

Stacking Exens: 605.171
Not stacking: 585.012

Stacking Evis: 584.226
Not stacking: 573.242

-Delve Fodder, haste+marches-

Stacking Exens: 849.173
Only TA Exen: 843.628
Not stacking: 837.945

Stacking Evis: 833.590
Only SA Evis: 835.528
Not stacking: 830.858

For Exen and capped haste, looking at an increase of about 1.4% damage by stacking both SA and TA, assuming you're able to stack near-perfectly. Given how that is often not the case unless you're basically dealing with just one other DD in party, it's probably not worth it. Especially for as annoying as SA+WS can be.

For Evis and capped haste, appears it's never worth stacking TA+WS, and not worth SA+WS stacking unless it's convenient.

I've been using Manibozho Boots in my Evis sets since the update, difference when Mani Boots are Rank 15 is 10 STR/13 Attack vs 1 DEX/1% DA on the Thaumas Feet.

I mean, if you're absolutely capped on both fSTR/attack Thaumas should pull ahead slightly, but I would think even if you are shy by just a little bit Mani should win, shouldn't it?

Last fSTR cap I knowling calculated(thanks to Mailizia's help for explaining the formulas), was DC Dynamis mobs which, with Izhikoh need 171 STR to cap fSTR, anything higher level than than I would assume would go up from there.

I just feel safer using the Manibozho Boots since the DEX/DA difference is so minimal.

I've been using the 2 WS's interchangeably since I got Izhikoh. SA-stacked or 200%/300% TP I use Evisceration.

TA-stacked or 100% TP I have been using Exenerator.

I feel like I get better results with them like that.

That's what I meant, yeah. As for the guide news, that's great, I'm cheering for you.

It seems item level and level correction (old areas) have made gearing a bit more complicated, heh. Definitely don't think I'm gonna be removing Aphotic from my main hand until I get shark dagger.

Also, /RUN is fun as ***. Been helping my friend with souls and even subbed, I love it. Combine say 2x Sulpor with your own Barwater, Vallation, MDT/Magic Evasion gear and Ogopoggo is a pussy. Pflug is also amazing for Chione since her spikes almost never paralyze me with it on.

It's probably been discussed in great detail but I don't really want to read things.

Edit: I wasn't even using any elemental resist atmas, since I was constantly fighting both Ogo and Chione and didn't want to constantly switch them out. Just regular DD atmas.

You're right, it is better once you uncap fSTR. But that depends on a lot of factors, including the assumption that all Delve fodder have 136 VIT (needing 212 to cap fSTR, which is surprisingly easy). It is probably much safer to use Manibo R15 in Delve, especially because I don't imagine many THFs having buffs during a farming run anyway, and you'd of course use them on anything higher than that.

Is it true that also the Mani body at rank 15 is better than Thaumas for Seekers Lv content? or is this the best set?

It probably depends on your Accuracy needs.

And this is why guides suck. It tells people that they don't need to figure out things on their own and it gets to the point where they can't even compare basic stats.

What's worst is that the answers given isn't even definitive. What's true in X situation isn't always true in Y situation, yet a lot of people go on spewing it like it was etched in stone, and a lot of people believe it.

Maybe the combination of acc attack and stats? or using the dps calc wrong again.

EDIT: nothing against the guide just would like to know what is best for a Thf doing Delve farming is all. I am using guide + the sheet. many are farming boss runs now. so I just want to have best foot forward.

Yeah, it's primarily accuracy dependent, but you also need to pay attention to attack caps and dDEX levels. This is why whenever I do comparisons on Motenten's spreadsheet, I add extra rows at the bottom where I put the accuracy, attack, and crit percentages so I can see what exactly I'm changing. But, certainly, before the version update Thaumas was only better than rank 15 Mani body when you had the necessary accuracy elsewhere.

Yup! It's definitely a problem. I can say as much as I want in the guide about how to do these comparisons yourself, but inevitably people are going to just look at a set and skip the text. I do it all the time looking at other guides. But writing this guide helps me learn how to gear my THF, and if anyone else benefits from all the spreadsheeting I do, that's a bonus.

Guide is great but people need to be smart enough to see what is best for them. This guide specifically is one of the best because you show new thiefs a good progression guide. Great job and excited to see your updated sets.

So I noticed an even bigger annoyance with the job now.

If you mainhand Izhiikoh and offhand Aphotic kukri, you get 252 skill on the mainhand and 162 skill on the offhand, a difference of 90. That means you need 90~ acc to make up for that difference. That also means that in order to cap acc on both hands, you have to equip about +90~ accuracy and that 90~ accuracy will not be doing anything for your mainhand, it will only affect your offhand.

In other words, all your extra accuracy gear/buffs is still necessary, just that, it will only be contributing to half of your swings, for the most part. Thanks, SE.

I'm sure people already knew this, but this specific fact hit me yesterday.

BTW:
ItemSet 233253

Will give you about 77% accuracy on Tojil with no acc buffs/sushi/etc

However, you need this:

ItemSet 311288

in order to cap accuracy with both hands with no outside buffs.

Two questions for you Ihina:
* When do you ever do Tojil without accuracy buffs?
* When do you ever do Tojil on THF?

I mean, if you're lucky enough to do Tojil on THF, that's great! But I've always had to go COR, and the groups I go with use quite a bit of accuracy buffs. I'm always asked to roll Hunter's for Tojil (along with Rogue's / Chaos / Fighters).

Also, no group I ever go with uses a THF because they just want a lot of MNKs for DD's, and maybe a DRK or a SAM. I'd argue about drop rates, but I think TH does affect Airlixirs, which actually seems more relevant than the gear now.

Only time I find Sa useful for damage any more is when I can use it with bully just for fun.


Only get to come Thf for fun on PUG farming runs. A good Thf still manages to beat out many of the new age delve DD's. (Only because many are not that great). otherwise thf kinda not useful and just use it fo farming.

1. When you're in the mage party.
2. Whenever I want because I run my own group.

After people started leaving, I jumped my THF to the main DD party and the results weren't bad. First run had me at 14%, drg 15%, mnks 16%/16%/18%/18%. Second run had me at 17.5%, mnks at 16%/17.8%/18%/18% and one pickup mnk at 10%; my damage picked up a bit because I wasn't sharing piercing weak with the drg anymore. Third run we wiped because being a DD, main curing and being the only stunner is a bad idea. Seems alt+tab'ing can only do so much. I don't run a bot, so people died, stun resisted and we wiped.

And also, the core members of my group are all top tier players, have mostly capped gear and everyone has mega boss weapons, and know how to play their job well, so I'm not parsing against a bunch of gimps.

How come the dps calculator shows stormsoul ring doing more damage on solo sa than thunderstorm?

It shouldn't, but there are a few things you can do to troubleshoot:
* Check the gear listings for each ring, make sure they're correct.
* Check the gear summary on the solo SA page, make sure that's correct.
* Check to see that you're looking at the solo SA numbers instead of the total DPS numbers, and that if you are looking at the total DPS numbers make sure the main page is set to calculate solo SA.

If all of those things look good, put the same set as both set 1 and set 2, except for the ring. Go to the data page and compare/contrast to find out why the damage is different.

Good ***on the updates.

Also, yeah, TH does affect airlixir drops but obviously not to the point that you should use Thief Knife for them, especially if you're just farming fracture. I'd personally just say slap THwhatever on Tojil even and then just go full DPS mode. The quicker he goes down, the better. I know we weren't talking about Thief Knife specifically but it always gets brought up anyway.

On another note, guess it's time to make some evasion path Mani gear, maybe grab another Aphotic. ***'s not labeled rare anymore.