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Which one to make first? Apoc or Rag?
Cerberus.Kylos
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4318
By Cerberus.Kylos 2013-02-06 17:47:36
I've never considered bandwagoning a bad thing. In general people that adapt and move to the "better" jobs accomplish more and are more beneficial than those that pick 1-2 jobs and refuse to play anything but those jobs.
The stigma against bandwagoning comes from players with subpar gear switching to the better jobs and becoming able to do content. Better geared plaers view this as "That gear is so bad, they should be on a better geared job and stop wasting my time." Of course, the flaw in this logic is the assumption that everyone has a better geared job. In general if someone a full pink ninja in abyssea, or perle bst in dyna, it is because thats their most efficient job for the roll.
That is a good way of looking at it. I only ever see the bandwagon term used in a negative way, rather then a positive one. Like anyone who bandwagons BST will benefit greatly, I encourage players coming back to level the job so they can make gil easier.
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By ScaevolaBahamut 2013-02-06 17:47:49
They were already answered, read the thread. If you have no interest in these types of threads why are you posting in them?
youmustbenewhere.jpg
Cerberus.Kylos
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4318
By Cerberus.Kylos 2013-02-06 17:48:56
They were already answered, read the thread. If you have no interest in these types of threads why are you posting in them?
youmustbenewhere.jpg
No idea what that means.
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 430
By Odin.Registry 2013-02-06 17:49:13
I finished rag few weeks ago... Not impressed with it on drk at all. Its a war weapon. If drk is your goal, then do apoc. If you wanna be the best you can be, make both. Apoc until you get into a zerg situation
War shouldn't use rag beside mighty strikes zerg, it's definitely a drk weapon. wat @ both of those.
Bismarck.Llewelyn
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1029
By Bismarck.Llewelyn 2013-02-06 17:49:26
I've never considered bandwagoning a bad thing. In general people that adapt and move to the "better" jobs accomplish more and are more beneficial than those that pick 1-2 jobs and refuse to play anything but those jobs. SAM and BLU for life. D:
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By ScaevolaBahamut 2013-02-06 17:50:45
They were already answered, read the thread. If you have no interest in these types of threads why are you posting in them?
youmustbenewhere.jpg
No idea what that means.
If you're not gonna chide people for lacking the courage of their convictions then why even be on the internet at all
Besides, I said these threads were dumb, not that I wasn't interested in posting in them!
Cerberus.Kylos
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4318
By Cerberus.Kylos 2013-02-06 17:52:11
They were already answered, read the thread. If you have no interest in these types of threads why are you posting in them?
youmustbenewhere.jpg
No idea what that means.
If you're not gonna chide people for lacking the courage of their convictions then why even be on the internet at all
Whats with all the negativity?
By ScaevolaBahamut 2013-02-06 17:53:18
They were already answered, read the thread. If you have no interest in these types of threads why are you posting in them?
youmustbenewhere.jpg
No idea what that means.
If you're not gonna chide people for lacking the courage of their convictions then why even be on the internet at all
Whats with all the negativity?
Huh?
Bro I had like the most constructive post in here!
Cerberus.Kylos
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4318
By Cerberus.Kylos 2013-02-06 17:54:46
You were the least useful person in the whole thread. I will give you a cookie for trying :)
Anyway, I will be making a Ragnarok. Hopefully the thread helped others who find themselves in a similar situation. Peace.
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Lakshmi.Saevel
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2228
By Lakshmi.Saevel 2013-02-06 17:55:22
I finished rag few weeks ago... Not impressed with it on drk at all. Its a war weapon. If drk is your goal, then do apoc. If you wanna be the best you can be, make both. Apoc until you get into a zerg situation
War shouldn't use rag beside mighty strikes zerg, it's definitely a drk weapon. wat @ both of those
I have no idea where they've been living the past year or so. I'm just waiting for the "lower accuracy cause of skill level" argument to come from someone. That'll be a hoot.
By Quetzacoatl 2013-02-06 17:55:24
If you're a DRK main, do Apocalypse first. That way you will be able to low-man or even solo certain content on your own, and it will help you to be able to fund for Ragnarok as your next relic if you're able to make good Gil on your DRK outside of Dynamis.
If you have a two-boxed WHM though, I would suggest Ragnarok. If your two-boxed WHM also has BRD, Apoc with Double Marches is freakin' fun. Regardless, you'll find yourself using Ragnarok a lot more for high endgame events and "Apoc'able" places.
My ultimate advice is to go for both weapons though. Because really, why the hell not?
I finished rag few weeks ago... Not impressed with it on drk at all. Its a war weapon. If drk is your goal, then do apoc. If you wanna be the best you can be, make both. Apoc until you get into a zerg situation
youredoingitwrong.tiff
Last Resort gives it a DoT advantage, WAR with MS is only for zergs
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 430
By Odin.Registry 2013-02-06 17:58:03
My personal advice would be make Ragnarok first, that makes you a bit more viable for current higher-tier endgame events if your gear's decent everywhere else.
In turn, you'll then be able to make gil a little bit easier (e.g. ADL) and be able to make Apocalypse a bit faster.
edit:
I have no idea where they've been living the past year or so. I'm just waiting for the "lower accuracy cause of skill level" argument to come from someone. That'll be a hoot. Huh?
By ScaevolaBahamut 2013-02-06 18:02:19
You were the least useful person in the whole thread. I will give you a cookie for trying :)
Fine. There are two kinds of events: ones where you will need to do a lot of damage rally fast and ones where you will need to survive and be as independent as possible. Rag is good for one, Apoc is good for the other. You know which kind of event is more important to you, and no one in this thread or any other can tell you otherwise.
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Quetzalcoatl.Xaxial
Server: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1523
By Quetzalcoatl.Xaxial 2013-02-06 18:41:25
Ok, speaking as a Career DRK, I made Ragnarok first. Why? Because I love great swords. Been using them ever since '06 and always wanted Ragnarok. Yes I know that Apocalypse has more utility than Ragnarok, but i wanted a weapon that could be used on multiple jobs first. For example, tried to get into an Ig-Alima party the other day but was denied use of my DRK. So, i swapped to WAR and when none of my procs was up i tore Ig up with Ragnarok. Because of that, i ended up making out like a bandit.
Basically, make what you want and screw everyone else. This is a game, do what you think is fun. I love great swords so i made ragnarok and i have had an absolute blast with it. Now i am making Apocalypse and just hit stage 3. Which ever one you decide upon, have fun with it. And remember to enjoy the fact that you now have a relic and with it comes some super silly random numbers against mobs. (Getting over 1-2k damage on a normal swing still makes me laugh like a mad man)
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Fenrir.Sylow
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6862
By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-02-06 18:51:28
Apoc gives you a lot of self-healing and options to wear substantial PDT. Rag does more damage; enough to arguably make Apoc's advantages moot. You already knew this, most likely.
What other relevant questions could anyone else possibly answer for you?
FEELINGS.
Bismarck.Stani
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 141
By Bismarck.Stani 2013-02-06 23:57:29
Rag first hands down if you get much action on WAR in MS zerg situations (ADL, meeble bosses, an early white proc on VWNMs) or Legion's Hall of Mul. Unmeriting Upheaval is such a sweet moment if you've been using that as your MS/noncrit WS. Also, if you have a pocket WHM, maybe that takes a little of the 'survivability' argument away from Apoc. If you like to parse and partake in a little friendly competition with your fellow frontliners, a Rag may appeal to you a little extra.
If you don't have WAR, and do have a taste for the Scythe look, or plan to try and use a heavy DD in a situation that rewards survivability, you might be best off looking at an Apoc. It may be an inferior raw damage weapon, but really, the slight damage potential loss will rarely be the difference between winning and losing whatever you're doing. Being a heads-up, well informed player who is part of the solution rather than a weight for others to carry more than makes up for any minor damage potential lost. I see an Apoc DRK contribute perfectly well in Legion on a weekly basis, near the front of the pack more often than not.
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Shiva.Paulu
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 776
By Shiva.Paulu 2013-02-07 01:10:45
Apoc for Brenner to win giant bounties.
By warmech 2013-02-07 01:34:11
Phoenix.Urteil
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
By Phoenix.Urteil 2013-02-08 10:07:47
Rag first hands down if you get much action on WAR in MS zerg situations (ADL, meeble bosses, an early white proc on VWNMs) or Legion's Hall of Mul. Unmeriting Upheaval is such a sweet moment if you've been using that as your MS/noncrit WS. Also, if you have a pocket WHM, maybe that takes a little of the 'survivability' argument away from Apoc. If you like to parse and partake in a little friendly competition with your fellow frontliners, a Rag may appeal to you a little extra.
If you don't have WAR, and do have a taste for the Scythe look, or plan to try and use a heavy DD in a situation that rewards survivability, you might be best off looking at an Apoc. It may be an inferior raw damage weapon, but really, the slight damage potential loss will rarely be the difference between winning and losing whatever you're doing. Being a heads-up, well informed player who is part of the solution rather than a weight for others to carry more than makes up for any minor damage potential lost. I see an Apoc DRK contribute perfectly well in Legion on a weekly basis, near the front of the pack more often than not.
Ragnarok.Evihime
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 273
By Ragnarok.Evihime 2013-02-08 20:41:06
Ill never regret my Apoc done before Rag.
Also I made some Rag DRK cry on parse even on stuffs that matters like Legion.
Make Apoc if u wanna have more fun imo, make Rag if u like to just spam WS.
Oh and for any Rag fanboy, I have Rag.
Cerberus.Dierdren
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 100
By Cerberus.Dierdren 2013-02-08 20:50:08
Quetzalcoatl.Vodkaa said: »I went apoc first then rag, i'm sure some will disagree but i'd say go with apoc first.
Cerberus.Conagh
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3189
By Cerberus.Conagh 2013-02-08 21:20:01
Id like to see how the attack and def adjustment saffects none attack capped ws before I'd make a rag
Quetzalcoatl.Scwall
Server: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 101
By Quetzalcoatl.Scwall 2013-02-08 21:32:08
#1
Get more power.
#2
Got more power, take over world.
Follow the quest line: #1
???: ...
???: Heh. Heh heh.
Hahahahahahaha!
???: Well, my new master, is it not time to begin the journey for ever greater power?
There are enemies yet to fell, and blood yet to spill...
#2
???: ...
???: Now, my heroic master...
???: For what purpose will you wield my power?
The choices before you are without limit.
Will you become the ruler of this world? Or perhaps...
"Most bad ***, motherfuckin' job in the whole ***' game."
Lakshmi.Saevel
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2228
By Lakshmi.Saevel 2013-02-08 21:49:57
Quote: "Most bad ***, motherfuckin' job in the whole ***' game."
A little bit of souleater and I can take over the whole world...
Server: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2215
By Siren.Thoraeon 2013-02-08 21:52:03
Quetzalcoatl.Scwall
Server: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 101
By Quetzalcoatl.Scwall 2013-02-08 21:56:06
Hey, at least we're not Dragoons.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3213
By Asura.Failaras 2013-02-08 21:58:12
Ill never regret my Apoc done before Rag.
Also I made some Rag DRK cry on parse even on stuffs that matters like Legion.
Make Apoc if u wanna have more fun imo, make Rag if u like to just spam WS.
Oh and for any Rag fanboy, I have Rag. I've beat just about every popular weapon, including Apoc, with a Perdu Sickle (at 99). So if we use your reasoning, Make Perdu Sickle before Apoc or Rag.
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Asura.Kese
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 395
By Asura.Kese 2013-02-08 22:14:45
Ill never regret my Apoc done before Rag.
Also I made some Rag DRK cry on parse even on stuffs that matters like Legion.
Make Apoc if u wanna have more fun imo, make Rag if u like to just spam WS.
Oh and for any Rag fanboy, I have Rag. I've beat just about every popular weapon, including Apoc, with a Perdu Sickle (at 99). So if we use your reasoning, Make Perdu Sickle before Apoc or Rag. k
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Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 585
By Ragnarok.Presidentobama 2013-02-08 22:23:19
I say apoc. As someone who has both rag is a toy like a k club. It screams out dmg but needs support to use efficently or survive. Apoc can stand alone and help you solo many things.
When i did rag trials i had to kill arcane. So i killed clusters in xcoast aby. If the nm aggrod apoc would take it down not rag. When senda ki farming apoc solos that pugil. Rag sits on your back in shame knowing if its used you die. After embrava nerf goes 100 percent apoc will be better in nni.
Even in this thread people say how they dual box a whm for rag. For when they solo things. Apoc doesnt need a dual box mule. I do have both.
Carbuncle.Xenhas
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 664
By Carbuncle.Xenhas 2013-02-08 22:31:06
Ragnarok.Presidentobama said: »I say apoc. As someone who has both rag is a toy like a k club. It screams out dmg but needs support to use efficently or survive. Apoc can stand alone and help you solo many things.
When i did rag trials i had to kill arcane. So i killed clusters in xcoast aby. If the nm aggrod apoc would take it down not rag. When senda ki farming apoc solos that pugil. Rag sits on your back in shame knowing if its used you die. After embrava nerf goes 100 percent apoc will be better in nni.
Even in this thread people say how they dual box a whm for rag. For when they solo things. Apoc doesnt need a dual box mule. I do have both.
yup
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Currently saving up the gil for my first relic. It takes me some time to save up money, but I reckon I could have enough within a few months by doing dyna and other things when possible. Was originally going to make a Ragnarok, but I am not sure now. Apocalypse is very useful as well.
So if you was a Dark Knight with no relics, which one would you make first?
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