Looking To See What Role Is A RDM Now?

Errrrm... did ^^^this^^ happen yet!! thisis a must see!!

A rdm did it w/o cruor buffs & atmas. I cant remember if he/she used windower or not, but it is a pretty cool accomplishment.

Was ryuotas, check out his YouTube channel: abberant dynamo. And no, he doesn't use windower or spellcast.

*** much!?

When you get tired of throwing baseless insults, go gear your mule and stop trying to convince everyone your way is right because it utilizes lots of laziness and excuses.

There is a very high probability those were not mules but actual players that quit the game and game their already buffed characters over to someone else. Then it's just a matter of maintaining whatever they had. We're no longer talking about general player population or even high end player population, we're talking about the 0.5% or so of the population. If such incredibly small percentages are allowed to be used as standards for events then we might as well throw in every other far fetched conceivable argument. There has to be a line draw about what could be considered reasonable play and what's a bit extreme (yet entirely possible). Gearing your mule with a MDT set so you can farm Zhayolm and get the exact same plans you'd get from Arrapago in similar quantities, for less effort invested, seems to be on the far side of that line.

Hey I'm not the one going around saying RDM is the best-est ever at salvage healing because MDB helps it survive an attack that completely ignores MAB/MDB. You've shown a whole lot of ignorance here, something that's easily to research on bgwiki and that is commonly known. You've said a whole lot of nonsense in regards to RDM's ability as a healer. No one doubts it's functionality yet it is without question the weakest of the three choices of provides nothing of value that a SCH can't do better.

I never said it was the best or that MDB helps you survive Discoid. I and several others have said that RDM is more than capable as healer and offers advantages in several situations. You pulled out this whole dual boxing arguement (3 man event BTW) then said its a mule to justify it running around in nobles and an Iridial staff (just spitballing, but I'm sure I'm close). MDT/MDB is a pretty standard way to refer to a magic damage taken set, since shell cuts an MDT set to 3-4 pieces even for mages. Unless you, who refers to it as a "mule" would have 2 different Magic damage sets depending on whether MDB or Meva applied.

You said there's nothing RDM can do that SCH can't do better, I said "buff, cure, enfeeble while naked and without SJ/JA". Completely true, not debatable, I'm done with you. Go back to the official forums and argue with everyone there.

I know Shypar is a mule as I have had the opportunity to play with the owner while he was taking the time to build said Harp and Horn. I cannot say the same for Ashraya, so I will concede that point. However, I do not want to create a session of "my word versus your word", so I will conclude with this.

I will also concede the point that yes, there comes a point where there are those who dedicate the time and effort to create a high-end mule for their playing experience. I agree that "everyone's experience as a whole" is very subjective terminology and as such, should be taken with a grain of salt. The players mentioned above have, I agree, gone well and above the call of creating a mule, and yes, they are within the top 0.5% of the population.

As such, the next logical step of a "mule" is to define "what is normal" or "standard". A White Mage mule has a Cure set, and an Idle set at the minimum. Chances are, if you want a White Mage mule, you should be taking the time to get the appropriate gearing for it defensively (I namely point towards cleric's pantaloons +2 augmented). With a sheltered ring and fully meritted Shellra V, you have approximately 30% MDT. We need 20% more MDT to reach said cap.

Chances also are, said mule has cleared Abyssea and has access to the Shinryu fight, giving an easy 5% piece, Twilight torque. Double merman's ring for another 8% (60K total on Ragnarok ATM), slipor sash for another 3% (20K) and finally a pair of merman's earring (~200K ea) for your White Mage mule for a grand total of approximately 500K with Ragnarok prices. [Editted for clarity and inappropiate gearing, I realized I made an error here]

To put that into perspective, you may spend somewhere between 5M to 10M on a mule if you were interested in getting them Nares trews for their idle set. Alternatively, you can probably make 500K easily in selling crappy Dark Ring augments while farming for a Refresh Hairpin (which can also net you decent augmented Dark Rings for one's mule as well, instead of needing Merman's Rings). Alternative #3, you spend 1.2m on a nefer khat after either buying or farming a Heka's kalasiris for your mule's idle set as well.

I consider a MDT set INCREDIBLY reasonable for any mule to achieve given the above steps to gearing a White Mage mule. I even have a condensed MDT/PDT/Refresh set that I use myself and sits at 46% MDT.

Therefore, I feel your reasoning for not building a MDT set for a "mule" because it doesn't need time on it is not only a grossly inaccurate statement when compared to the norm or standard people build thier mules too.

I'm sorry for the epic wall of text and epic derail, I shall now take my leave.

Rdm wont get a proper fix/distinguish from other jobs until se makes other magic system than white/black magic (for this game). Blu magic doesn't count.

I didnt fully read this thread,I just clicked in and saw what latifa quoted. Not sure if you're talking salvage or neo salvage,but RDM is more than enough for NQ salvage to clear everything with plenty of time to spare to hit every NM in w/e zone or stay and farm ramprts for alex for ages with enough time for boss in the case of BR

We're talking specifically about Salvage II, in regulate salvage RDM is more then capable and there isn't any real difference between them all.

Honestly it could also pull off healing in HQ as well, not as good as either SCH or WHM but it'll serve in a pinch. Which is the crux of the entire argument, it's functional but not anywhere close to as good as the other two. Hence there is no technical reason to take a RDM over a SCH or a WHM. Now this is a game where we play with our friends, so if the guy who's gonna do the healing doesn't have SCH or WHM yet has RDM geared then it's perfectly understandable for them to on RDM. You work with what you have not what you want. If you have a choice between them, then go with WHM or SCH depending on their gear set.

That's all reasonable until you realize that said mule already has the R/EX gear from their play time along with 15/15 NNI and 500 enhancing on both WHM and SCH. This is a player who recently quit and as such I've put nearly no additional effort into their builds other then macro / spellcast building. It's also assuming there is nothing more pressing on the main character to spend that gil on, like say a Bravura. If someone had absolutely nothing left to do on their main, then sure go wild on a mule account. I only get peeved when people expect rare / unrealistic situations to be common, then pull an internet warrior attitude when it's not. If you were to sample 100 random healer mules (cure b1tches) how many would have a MDT set? Most don't even have proper cure cast / refresh idle / enhancing sets. Thankfully mine does and I actually know how to use it.

You most certainly did say those things. RDM is a 3rd rate healer / support period. MDB does absolutely nothing for discoid so RDM having MDB would not make it take less damage then a melee.

Yeah sadly very very few people who make a healer-mule bother to make more than a fulltime idle/cure set. :<

So tell me, how exactly does SCH outperform RDM on floor 1 in BR II?

SCH doesn't get JA from lamp. The first JA available to them is on the 2nd floor. That means no access to Light Arts. Which means 200 MP for Regen V. Which cannot be Accession+Perpetuence'd.

Also, SCH must sub /WHM for that zone because Stona is needed to counter the 3 min Petrified status inflicted by the Dahaks. Therefore, SCH does NOT even get access to Refresh or any form of MP management for that matter.

Please, do enlighten me, how exactly is SCH better in this situation than RDM. A SCH would run out of MP easily on the dahaks. Especially, if they use Nullsong and Body Slam. SCH probably can't even reliably land Silence without addendum to avoid songs.

No, I said RDM is the best support mage with only spellcasting, which is its, and I said RDM will take less damage because it has one of the best sets of damage mitigation tools, access to more MDT/MDB gear (which is a generic way of talking about magic damage taken, cap MDT, pile one MDB/Meva).

Really wondering if you have EVER dual boxed these zones.

From how I do it when I dual MNK+SCH there, depending on lamp, SCH doesn't always start with JA, but always SUB. It will rest once haste/adlo+3 dots on flies then rest for mp.

It does have access to Refresh.

The MP management is NP. Once I reach puddings, I aspir my MP back. (I usually buff SCH here with pro/shell etc. MNK is buffed at start.) This your MP-station right there.

From here, I reach Dahaks w/o resting MP at all (have my mule engage for staff skill-ups) and it will always keep 3 dots on+hastes etc.

Now for your stona-situation; RDM and WHM makes this more lax if your DD(s) aren't paying attention/not able to stun reliably if petro eyes land. I stun this with tackle.

You can also sub /whm here if you're SCH main. Neither sub, will make or break the deal for higher floors.

Also, silence lands reliably w/o arts.

With dots, debuffs on dahaks, they go down rather fast. Typical clear time is 35 min with MNK+SCH.

It's worth adding that my alt is fully geared up, all sets are solid. It's basically my main mage for everything I do now.

Summary: WHM/SCH/RDM all work well on starter floor for Bhaf v2.

^ how about fight dahak from behind?

I haven't tested if that locks it from using petro eyes. I can check it out next run today.

It does :P

That's even better

The hq dahak tends to turn around a lot, ime. But I've never done it with only one dd.

I enter with 3 people. Real people. Not triple boxing. I can't just tell the thf to sit and wait for 35 mins doing nothing, and attacking nothing so we can conserve MP. So healing and buffing 2 DDs would probably take more MP than a SCH has at that point.

No, SCH doesn't have access to refresh when they take /whm for Stona. There is no way to have 100% TP for every use of Petro Eyes to stun it. And the thf gets no stun WS. If you even get hit by 1 unresisted Petro Eyes, it's 3 freaking minutes of being unable to do anything.

We go wamoura side. Also, Aspir without Arts or a weapon and gear is pretty weak and has a long recast.

As mentioned above, you can't stun every single Petro Eyes. There is no way to amass TP this fast. And I've seen it use Petro Eyes several times one after the other.

Yeah, but the point I'm making is you don't get Refresh at all if you sub /whm on SCH.

It tends to use Nullsong or Thornsong immediately after silence wears off so you have to be quick to reapply it though and land it again.

I'm pretty sure it hits a lot harder from the back, going back to the MP issue. But I'll try it in a few minutes again to confirm.

Both jobs can probably do this as stated already. But RDM is more efficient in this situation specifically.

SCH gets Stona native if it's that important unlock ja on sch don't use /whm

So if it's only 1 JA give it to SCH over WSing for melee?

Don't cry about having a real person having to twiddle their thumbs because MP is an issue when the SCH didn't /RDM for refresh.

Giving SCH access to Arts/Strats would solve the MP issue and allow both DD to fight.

I find it hard to believe that people have been arguing for what 4 pages now about how RDM is almost efficient for a small part of a single event.

The question was asked if rdm is useful or competent at anything relevant. Salvage 2 was mentioned, and some people came to argue about how dual boxing a sch is so much better in every way. The last 4 pages are them putting their fingers in their ears and yelling blah blah blah I'm right cause i can't gear my mule. Thanks for stopping by.