Looking To See What Role Is A RDM Now?

I figured most groups just used their SCH that was already there for embrava to stun? After parties are embrava'd, SCH has the rest of the 2 mins+ of TR to use alacrity+Stun & after 2hr wears they'll still have 5 stratagems up.

One thing I'd love to see RDM get, similar to how BRD has Pianissimo...
An ability with a short recast that lets us AOE buffs, centered around us(the caster).
Could be like +50% recast and +50% mp cost or whatever...
Or +100%, idc >_>

Unfortunately thats all rdm is now. CS stunner or a sub healer. And Rdm no longer needed for its refresh (wich use to be a must have) due to all this enhanced gear. Answer to this hole post: Rdm has become a vital sub job for mages lol (until SoA wel see what that holds in store)

That explains it. Spending half a run on floor 1 must certainly put some strain on upper floors if you going for all NMs for plans+ NQ/HQ using NIN & WHM only.

So unnecessary. My SCH/BLM with thunderstorm, af2+2 shoes, haste and full FC/cast reduction setup has ~4 second stun recast as long as I have strategems for it. If 2hr is up, at least a good 1:45-2:30 seconds of infinite charges and then 5 more when the 2hr wears off, more than enough time to cripple PW or at the very least Stun only his spells to prevent fetters.

I'm not in charge and maybe that sch does too. All I know is what I see up front and that cs stun has it pretty well locked.

Until we fail, I can't jump on the "rdm has no 'role'" train.

Then again, my philosophy is different:

You don't have to be the best in order to fulfill a role. If anything, I would think that FFXI has been moving in that direction over the last few years. It's the mind set of the players that have fallen behind....

Cs stun is not needed for watcher altho it does and can help at same time can be bad only quickining the resistance to stun. but mostly watcher dead or its wipe b4 that happens. W/e strat people use to win keep doin it, if it aint broke dont fix it.

We've done this run with 2 heavy DD's and the first floor is still a solid 30 minutes. Bringing a RDM allows us to have WS on BOTH DD's, drastically speeding up the floor and leaving time to farm alex. There are sacrifices people make in order to bring the jobs they THINK are best, but different strategies warrant different setups. And as both me an sawtelle have stated, RDM flat out does naked/no sub/no JA better than any of the other mages, and that makes it useful for some things.

One of the biggest flaws with how RDM was handled was in making it a ludicrously powerful subjob. Giving Refresh subbed is obnoxious enough but Covnert as well? At least nerf /RDM's convert so the ratio is like 1:3 or 1:4, it's RDM's signature ability for god's sake. There's almost nothing that RDM gains over level 49 that makes it unique. All of our enfeebles except GravII and Addle are learned levels 1-33. We go from level 48->99 with no new Healing Spells too. For a job that specializes in Enfeebling Magic, we get surpisingly so few enfeebles, we have what like 6 or 7 unique enfeeble spells? The tier 2s absolutely necessary in competing with a WHM or BLM casting the same kind of enfeeble. Unlike BLM which learns stronger nukes after Tier II nukes, RDM learns no more potent enfeebling spells after 75. That's like giving PLD SCH RDM Cure V and giving WHM Cure VI but making it a merit spell. No other job relies so heavily on their merits as RDM does, without RDM's merit spells.

A level RDM99 is exactly like a BLM75/WHM60 except without AoEs, AM's or -na's.

This has been explained to you how many times now?

Nerfing Convert is going to do absolutely nothing

Wait....what?

While I won't say it's impossible (that would omit the possibility of my own insufficiency), it's not a setup I would use to take on NQ/HQ....

It's 60 minutes for 8-9 plans. 30 min on first floor and 30 up until the acrolith nm, with a few minutes for aggro and a second magic if given only 2 sj on first lamp.

Anyway, rdm does nicely in this scenario.

Could a heavy dd do it more quickly? Yes.

Is the efficacy of ninja in salvage the question? No.

Would nin/thf + sch/rdm enable me to get any more plans? No.

Would nin/thf + sch/rdm enable me to get my plans faster or more easily? There would be almost no appreciable difference.

Agreed. That's RDM; Competent but master of nothing. It's less of "a role" and more of a role filler which is why it struggles with identity.

What Im saying though is that RDM isnt needed for Prov at all. Can you bring one & give it a "role"? Yeah, sure just like you could bring a 3rd WHM for the BLM pt & give it a "role". Is that extra role needed though? nope. If the RDM is your good buddy or w/e & loves the job enough to not want to get off it for the sake of being more efficient, then Im not saying he has to get off of it. Just saying that Prov isnt an event you could say RDM is useful for. I can sort of see the point people are making with Salvagev2 & RDM, but besides that event, RDM is just for people who dont want to give up.

To clarify; you used diff setup when focusing on diff goals in salvage? as in NIN/THF+WHM primarliy for plan farming, and a heavier dd+support combo for bosses on seperate runs?

For the record, this isn't a RDM vs SCH debate I am discussing now.

I was simply reacting to this

Which is too much time spent on first floor if your goal is to farm all NMs+bosses in one and the same run.

At which point I'd recommend a better setup so you can get all plans+bosses done.

Neat.

I bring my pocket RDM over my pocket WHM to anything outside of Abyssea. RDM is all about lowman/solo endurance.

The goal was always plans.

Your strategy works. I assume it works for you every run as long as the sch isn't just an embrava mule.

If it is, can you not embrava outside and you don't lose the slot in the ally?

I never paid any attention but I think cors do rolls outside.... so buffs likely don't wear.

If that's the case, there's not really much loss.

You could do that & leave stunning before 50% HP to the BLM's but thats a bigger risk due to their procs taking a while & during zergs, DRK's dont have the ability to do anything but reso. Also, SCH has a higher dark magic skill than rdm so that helps. I just see a lot more benefits to having someone come SCH than RDM in almost every situation.

Pretty much this. RDM is screwed in more ways than one when it comes to endgame content. I don't think enhancing our buffing is going to do much either. Not when we have so many other backline jobs that can buff as well or better than a RDM (SCH, WHM, BRD, SMN), with another backline buffer on the way (Geomancer). I think the core of RDMs problem at this point is that its place in the back line has been buffed right out of the game.

As others have said in this thread RDM has a place in lowman content, but what it offers is so samey and not unique that it can be replaced very easily depending on how you want to go about things. I use it for lowman content. Thats about all I do with it these days.

In my opinion its going to take a dramatic rethinking of the RDM job in general if they really wanna fix it. At least more than just buffing our enfeebling ability slightly.

Shhhhhhhhh! I often get into shout groups with RDM for stun- they don't need to know that it's totally unnecessary!

Whats an RDM?

WTF are you smoking?

I've already laid out the distribution of initial unlocks. You get one guaranteed JA at the start and that should be going to a DD. Mage gets sub maybe (RDM is useless with it's sub without JA so it doesn't even get sub). We knock out the first floor in 20m or less. Your feeling stressed because your doing it wrong.

WAR/SAM
THF/WAR
WHM/??? (depends who is our healer that day)

Our WHM brings along two hi-elixers just-in-case.

Ritualistic plans are sh!t easy to farm, marduke on the other hand are much harder as you gotta deal with the annoying wamura. In both cause's the dahak is easy if you keep it silenced, which either a WHM or a SCH can do. You actually do better with a WHM in this zone cause you start out with stona and erase which are both incredibly helpful on the first floor. The second floor is where you'll see JA / SJ / Magic being handed out.

First your taking both a NIN and a THF, that's a bad idea. You plow through floors when you take one heavy DD (WAR/DRK/SAM/MNK maybe DRG).

Bhaflau Remnants II is by far the easiest zone. Of the two paths the Usakane path is the easiest. A team of HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE monkeys could beat the NMs. HQ Cerb is the most difficult part and easily handed by using formless strikes or Requiescat spam. So beating it with a RDM healer isn't exactly much to brag about. Next you'll be telling us how you beat Havana with a RDM healer.

Which brings me to my point. That the group you bring will depend on the boss you fight not the floor clears. If your having issues with the floor clears and time then it's 100% a competency problem. None of the zones have any difficult floor layouts, it only takes some planning on which routes to take and which unlocks to hit so that your team is fully unlocked for the boss. Every zone except Bhaflau Remnants II will give you SJ / JA on the first floor and the mage should be taking the first SJ in any case. Once the context is taken into consideration RDM falls to the bottom of potential healer choices. And while there's not much difference in Bhaflau Remnants II, there most definitely is a difference vs Chairman or Hydra with Khim really depending on which DD's you brought.

Ultimately RDM is fine if you have no other healer choice, it'll net you a Bhaflau win and a decent shot at Arapago / SSR. You can farm plans off Zhayolm and possibly kill the NQ Hydra, but the HQ will most likely stomp you into the mud. That it can function isn't an indicator of it being a good choice. The RDM in question needs to be leveling SCH or WHM and gearing it appropriately. SCH plays the most like RDM only with far more abilities and tools.

From how I read it, Lye used NIN/THF+WHM, not NIN&THF+WHM to farm plans exclusively - skipping bosses.

That's why he said he nearly used half a run on floor 1.

As nice as your long winded speech was, it did not refute that using nin/thf (that's one job), rdm is superior to sch while farming bhaf 2 with the objective of farming usu plans.


But by all means, continue.

Gonna let you two hash it out, but the "superior way" of farming Salvage is to kill all nms+bosses. Adjust your setup accordingly.

Even if you're only dual-boxing.

HAHA! There's a post by the door. Hitch your high horse there.

This thread isn't about "the superior way to farm salvage." This thread is about what RDM is used for. This is one use.