The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos

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The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos
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 Cerberus.Fiasko
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By Cerberus.Fiasko 2014-09-30 17:17:22
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Welp, it does take into account the augments to Berserk already. Cell B190 on the Data sheet.
 Carbuncle.Legato
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By Carbuncle.Legato 2014-09-30 18:25:06
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@Failaras
Can you post the buffs and debuffs you used for your spreadsheet analysis, because whenever I spreadsheet Conq Vs Koga
Same buffs and debuffs

They are within 50-80 Dps of each other
when you turn Mighty strikes or brazen rush on, Wars numbers go very high.
 Asura.Failaras
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By Asura.Failaras 2014-09-30 18:46:42
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I was obviously not using Mighty Strikes and Brazen Rush, no one doubts that War is good for zerging (although even then, Sam is not far behind).

Buffs were Berserk, Aggressor, Restraint, Hasso, Ionis, Haste, Boost-STR, Marchx2, Min, Chaos Roll, Sam Roll, Fury, Frailty, Tojil with 15% defense down, Sushi (too lazy to put Riverfin in), all applicable merits, using the fodder sets on each of the guides front pages.

The comparison is far from perfect, it wasn't meant to be. However with that large of a gap between the two, it really doesn't matter.
 Carbuncle.Legato
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By Carbuncle.Legato 2014-09-30 19:00:58
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@ Failaras

BRD (4 song ) COR (B. Ring) SCH

Tojil specific

Soul Voice On

Minuet V IV III
Blade Madrigal
Victory March

Chaos 11 (46%)
SAM Roll (60 STP)

Ionis

RCB

Berserk / Hasso on

Dia II Light Shot x2 on
-20% defense down on Tojil

Conq War using Upheaval
Koga SAM using Fudo

Conq #'s I had were 1546 dps
Koga #'s 1580 dps

With optimal gear selection used from guides.

I asked only out of curiousity because the numbers just seemed so different.
 Bismarck.Inference
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By Bismarck.Inference 2014-09-30 19:03:07
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Yeah, the numbers are a lot closer when attack is valuable as all of that still doesn't cap PDIF on Tojil. I assume Failaras uses Bolster Frailty in the comparisons which caps PDIF and puts the numbers a lot closer to what was posted.
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 Asura.Failaras
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By Asura.Failaras 2014-09-30 19:09:34
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Don't even use Bolster, just normal 45% Fury and 35% Frailty.

My comparison wasn't meant to specifically be for a Tojil zerg, hence no SV or special 1hs or anything, just using Tojil as a sort of placeholder mob for most of the higher ilvl mobs you are going to be fighting now. Attack is a very silly stat right now with the amount of buffs we have and in almost every situation it won't be valuable enough to make a large difference.
 Bismarck.Inference
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By Bismarck.Inference 2014-09-30 19:21:53
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Yeah, didn't actually read the buff list until after I posted. Very Difficult BCs have pretty insane defense values but that's a small number of events that would favor the bonus % increase. Delve 2.0 is pretty trivial to cap with proper buffs as well though, can't speak for Incursion as I'm normally stunning or GEO.

Argument kind of gets thrown on its side when you consider SAM SC damage though.
 Asura.Failaras
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By Asura.Failaras 2014-09-30 19:27:43
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Bismarck.Inference said: »
Yeah, didn't actually read the buff list until after I posted. Very Difficult BCs have pretty insane defense values but that's a small number of events that would favor the bonus % increase. Delve 2.0 is pretty trivial to cap with proper buffs as well though, can't speak for Incursion as I'm normally stunning or GEO.

Argument kind of gets thrown on its side when you consider SAM SC damage though.
Yeah, that's kind of my point. Any amount of error I made in those spreadsheet values is kind of pointless when you consider that the number between the two is so large to begin with and it doesn't include the 300-500 DPS that a Sam is going to be pulling from SCs.
 Odin.Shaggnix
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By Odin.Shaggnix 2014-10-10 12:42:37
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Defender and Bersek were given a slight buff in the october update. Does anyone know if they're +30%/-30% or +30%/-25%?
 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-10-10 12:50:02
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/checkparam is your friend.
 Lakshmi.Veika
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By Lakshmi.Veika 2014-10-13 17:23:32
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What's the best GAXE right now outside RME? There has been a few released and the OP doesn't mention them unless the AA is still the best.
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By Davorin 2014-10-13 23:25:56
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Minos, Castigation, and Qalgwer are all probably pretty close.
 Asura.Failaras
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By Asura.Failaras 2014-10-14 00:42:03
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Pretty sure it's still Minos, Lightreaver might be worth using if you need the accuracy. Castigation and Qal don't have very good secondary stats.
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By Blazed1979 2014-10-15 10:41:31
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The year and a half I spent away has made gearing a bit too complicated for me as of late. Need some help/comments/advice from others.

Is it worth re-working my Standard Ukon set to try to get a 5hit build?

Need 40 stp with the 482 delay on Ukon based on the calculator.

Would this 5hit build be superior to my current standard set(also shown) -

5HIT
ItemSet 329671

Standard
ItemSet 329672

Xaddi body path A R15
Xaddi Gloves Path C R15
Cizin+1 Gloves only have +8 Acc augment and 20 mil worth of broken dreams.
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By Zillion 2014-10-16 07:25:27
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has anyone tested metalsinger vs light belt for ukko's fury
 Bahamut.Malothar
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By Bahamut.Malothar 2014-10-16 08:32:53
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Blazed1979 said: »
Need 40 stp with the 482 delay on Ukon based on the calculator.

I'm out of touch with Warrior myself, and I'm unsure of how TP gain is calculated exactly now in that delay range, but a few updates back when they updated WSs they also increased TP gain across the board. That 40 STP is what was needed awhile back for Ukon IIRC. No idea what's needed now, but I'd go test it a bit (or wait for someone else to say) before committing to building a 40 STP set.
 Lakshmi.Saevel
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By Lakshmi.Saevel 2014-10-16 10:13:49
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IIRC none of the sTP calculators have been updated to reflect the new delay formula's so don't use them. Since we can see the final digit clearly, the best thing to do is equip your weapon without any other store TP gear or /SAM and go hit a level 0 monster. Write down how much TP you get from a single attack, then do it twice more and make sure you get the same value. You can then take that value and calculate how much sTP you need for any x-hit with simple math.

1000/x-hit = TP required per hit (rounded up). 167 for a 6-hit, 200 for a five hit. That's for a pure x-hit, but since we use WS's as the first hit usually, you gotta figure out how much sTP you have in your ideal WS gear. So base TP + 10 per extra hit * sTP = amount on first hit, subtract it from 1000 and then divide by the remaining number of required hits.

So assuming you get 146 from a hit (just totally pulled it out my ***) and are using Upheaval with a total of 26 sTP (15 from /SAM + 11 from gear) you get a WS TP return of (146 +10 + 10 +10) = 176 * 1.26 = 221. 1000-221 = 779 to get in the remaining 4 hits, 779/4 = 194.7 [195] per hit. At 146 sTP per hit 195/146 = 1.3356, or 34 Store TP with 15 coming from /SAM and 19 from gear. The 146 was completely arbitrary, every delay will have a different base Tp value and it will need to be reworked for each value. Also you will miss 5% of all hits at max accuracy, so it might not be best to count on all four hits of Upheavel (or five on Reso) landing and instead count on one missing.
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By Blazed1979 2014-10-16 10:22:39
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Went out and tested it. Getting 207 tp per swing in the 5 hit build I posted.
191tp return in my standard set.

This calculator seems to be giving the same results as well.
http://www.heckdesigns.com/demos/ffxi-calculators/stp.php
 Lakshmi.Saevel
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By Lakshmi.Saevel 2014-10-16 10:58:08
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It states it was updated june 2012 which means it's out of date. Unless the owner updated it without letting anyone know.

Only post base TP amounts for a given delay with zero sTP on you. It's the only way to not overkill on sTP. SE redid the delay vs TP gain for all weapons with 500+ seeing the smallest increase.
 Lakshmi.Zerowone
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By Lakshmi.Zerowone 2014-10-16 11:46:07
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Asura.Failaras said: »
Pretty sure it's still Minos, Lightreaver might be worth using if you need the accuracy. Castigation and Qal don't have very good secondary stats.

Hate to say it but I do like Lightreaver. Primarily for the 20acc and of course its
1 in 1000 death proc.
 Asura.Failaras
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By Asura.Failaras 2014-10-16 12:10:20
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Lakshmi.Zerowone said: »
Asura.Failaras said: »
Pretty sure it's still Minos, Lightreaver might be worth using if you need the accuracy. Castigation and Qal don't have very good secondary stats.

Hate to say it but I do like Lightreaver. Primarily for the 20acc and of course its
1 in 1000 death proc.
Well the thing about the 119 Gaxes is they are all basically equal as far as Damage/Delay, so you pick based on secondary stats. Lightreaver has accuracy, which when applicable makes it probably the best non RME. Minos has Double Attack, which is always going to be useful as opposed to accuracy. The other Gaxes like Qal and Castigation are made with defensive stats and VIT, which is just not as good.
 Lakshmi.Zerowone
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By Lakshmi.Zerowone 2014-10-16 12:59:30
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They really should have gone the Sam route and ditched VIT modifiers for WS on WAR.
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By maldini 2014-10-16 13:06:41
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Lakshmi.Zerowone said: »
They really should have gone the Sam route and ditched VIT modifiers for WS on WAR.
They don't give a ***about anything else other than SAM.
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 Asura.Ccl
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By Asura.Ccl 2014-10-16 13:11:02
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maldini said: »
Lakshmi.Zerowone said: »
They really should have gone the Sam route and ditched VIT modifiers for WS on WAR.
They don't give a ***about anything else other than SAM.

Yeah it's not like war was the best dd since lvl 85 to delve 1; only sam was good!
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By maldini 2014-10-16 13:28:27
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Asura.Ccl said: »
maldini said: »
Lakshmi.Zerowone said: »
They really should have gone the Sam route and ditched VIT modifiers for WS on WAR.
They don't give a ***about anything else other than SAM.

Yeah it's not like war was the best dd since lvl 85 to delve 1; only sam was good!
Did you play before Abyssea?
 Asura.Ccl
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By Asura.Ccl 2014-10-16 13:32:58
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Cause war wasn't awesome at 75?
 Asura.Failaras
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By Asura.Failaras 2014-10-16 13:38:45
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To be fair, War was most assuredly dominant during abyssea but after that it was pretty on par with Drk, Mnk, and Sam depending on the event and the time frame. So really War was definitely a good job from 85 to delve 1, but I don't agree with it being "the best". Also Sam is much more overpowered now than basically any job has ever been in this game, even in abyssea.
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By maldini 2014-10-16 13:40:05
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At 75 everything was good in different situations.
There was a lot more balance in the melee dps realm before Abyssea.
 Asura.Ccl
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By Asura.Ccl 2014-10-16 13:48:41
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Asura.Failaras said: »
To be fair, War was most assuredly dominant during abyssea but after that it was pretty on par with Drk, Mnk, and Sam depending on the event and the time frame. So really War was definitely a good job from 85 to delve 1, but I don't agree with it being "the best". Also Sam is much more overpowered now than basically any job has ever been in this game, even in abyssea.
I don't agree with you, sam was quite awfull pre SOA outside of hall of mul with good group.

Mnk wasn't as good neither, only war and drk were on top, I do agree that sam is too strong now.

maldini said: »
At 75 everything was good in different situations.
There was a lot more balance in the melee dps realm before Abyssea.
I agree with that.
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 Asura.Failaras
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By Asura.Failaras 2014-10-16 14:03:36
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Quote:
I don't agree with you, sam was quite awfull pre SOA outside of hall of mul with good group.

Mnk wasn't as good neither, only war and drk were on top, I do agree that sam is too strong now.
I think the problem is saying awful. I'll agree that Mnk and Sam were a very small bit behind Drk/War following abyssea, but we are talking what would show up as less than a percent on a parser, and even then they had situations they excelled in like Namas Spam and Blunt weakness/crits. In reality all 4 jobs were extremely close and to say Sam or Mnk were awful is silly. Compare it to now where you have gaps ranging from 300-500 DPS between Sam and War before skillchains and you can see how it's not really a fair comparison.
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