The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos

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The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos
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 Asura.Sirris
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By Asura.Sirris 2020-06-04 12:39:45
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Decimation makes Light with Savage Blade. That's one of its biggest selling points, whenever you have a COR, or a melee BRD with sword, you are going to get a lot of incidental Light skillchains.
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 Shiva.Eightball
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By Shiva.Eightball 2020-06-04 12:53:50
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While the set I use for SB is likely not dream tier I do recall on NMs buffed with trusts getting around 40kish, buffed with trusts on chango I get anywhere from 30k-60k upheavals also not dream tier set, SB being much more consistent than UH I would say they are competitive when skillchains are not a factor, being a solo DD or even working with another DD to make skillchains intentionally will likely yield more overall dmg.
 Asura.Snore
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By Asura.Snore 2020-06-04 18:43:27
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Warrior gets access to a lot of strong WS's they can use fencer with SB is just one of them. People tend to forget Black Halo, and Mistral Axe, While they are not nearly as good as SB they both prob lose around 5k-10k damage they can create and close decent sc's. Including Dark with thf and light with other SB's users.

My mind set was always this. Fencer if you're not sc'ing and you're just spamming or you can create light/dark with one of the above sc's. Gaxe for times when you're creating self lights or double lights with others. Reso for when you're using MS zerg spam. Correct me if i'm wrong.
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2020-06-04 21:12:28
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I've used the Savage Fencer + Dancer combo and it's stupidly powerful. The only issue is that there are few dancers are we rarely get the chance to party up like that.
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By Spaitin 2020-06-06 11:09:14
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Asura.Snore said: »
My mind set was always this. Fencer if you're not sc'ing and you're just spamming or you can create light/dark with one of the above sc's. Gaxe for times when you're creating self lights or double lights with others. Reso for when you're using MS zerg spam. Correct me if i'm wrong.
Kinda

GA is the overall best option for war with r15 chango. It generally wins in WS and SC damage. It is our best multistep option for light. If you are not getting consistently high numbers with upheaval on chango, then something is wrong with your macro/lua/set/buffs.

Fencer is an odd one. In lower attack situations naegling should pull ahead (Axe builds are competitive as well). If you have a real DNC in your party then it is probably among the strongest pure physical WS damage spam in the game.You will TP considerably faster than DW builds. Reso is really strong in most situations as well, especially if you MS, attack penalty can sneak up on you. Reso/Savage blade's biggest weakness is it does not SC very well. Ironically, their biggest strength is that it does not SC very well either. Really good for fights like onchy or kin.
Fencer is behind reso builds by a decent chunk UNLESS you have haste samba, then it is a decent chunk ahead of reso builds. Fencer gets a nice boost in retaliation proccs since the delay is so much lower. I personally think fencer builds are the most fun. It is hard to choose which weapon is best for trust set ups. I use naegling a lot when I have trusts. The extra attack is helpful
Fencer kinda requires you to party with a dancer to get the most out of it. So your SC compatibility is somewhat weak.

Decimation?
very good but falls behind better options. It is a bit behind stuff like reso, but doesnt have the attack penalty issue. I used to use doli builds a lot. They are very good. Fun to see that 58k decimation slam into stuff every now and then. Biggest draw back is they get 0 benefit from wars strongest ability outside of MS. Decimation builds tend to do better in fights around 4 minutes because DPS is consistent. Not many fights last more than 60 seconds these days.

So, imo for best DPS it is chango for everything unless you dont want to SC for whatever reason. But other methods can be about the same under certain rare and/or specific conditions. Sometimes those other options can pull ahead of chango slightly. I.E. the meeble month i use savage blade a lot of the time.

malakef said: »
I believe it’s our strongest non 1 hour WS spam potential.
I agree, but to reach that potential forces us to do something that is outside of the norm. Finding someone to play dnc. DNC is a great job that no one plays for some reason.

While I agree that fencer CAN be among our best option, rarely do I find the situation where it actually is. It is usually kinda meh. Personally I think Shining ONe has our best non 1 hour potential if you are running with 2 cors. TBH i get to do that a LOT more than I get to get a dnc in the party. Sam/Fighter/Rogue
 
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 Fenrir.Skarwind
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By Fenrir.Skarwind 2020-06-06 12:41:19
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kreek said: »
but mnk beats war

Cool story bro
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 Asura.Snore
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By Asura.Snore 2020-06-06 15:14:02
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Fencer Warrior and Dnc have extreme synergy it's not a one sided benefit. Warcry and Blood Rage are extremely strong buffs for DNC while Haste Samba is god tier for Fencer Warrior.
While they don't create extremely strong SC's they do still create SC's with both Axe and SB while not having to stop their main weaponskills they can both easily adjust to not create SC's too as overflow doesn't kill their damage unless it's extreme overflow.
Another good thing is that DNC closes SB which is actually a massive benefit because of the SC damage boost they get. Kinda brings a rather average SC damage to light/dark levels.

They both sink EXTREMELY well in zerg/burst fights with access to MS Grand Pas and Trance. I personally think that Dnc+Fencer War is the best DD combo you can do with Warrior even over Chango + any other DD as they both fit extremely well into the zerg rush or they can both do extremely well under conditions like Kin or Pain sync where they need to turn their back and can't just spam WS's due to their extremely high damage on WS's. Is it beatable by other double DD combos? I'm not sure but it's an extremely strong pairing of 2 zerg heavy WSD jobs that get a lot of benefit off one another.

Also, both jobs have ways to steal hate off one another and are both rather tanky for higher content. not to mention the uses of steps that Dnc gives and Tomahawk that Warrior gives. They both also gain insane critical damage so they scale with crit damage extremely well and both have access to give the other crit with Feather step and blood rage.

The only real flaw is they don't create Massive SC's but it's not like the SC's are extremely weak because DNC is closing on a Rudra anyways. Both do kinda like tanking mobs to get more damage but again that's not something that really HURTS them because they can swap hate back and forth a lot. Idk, maybe I just love the pairing but I actually think we need to find someone who has really good gear on dnc and fencer warrior and compare it to Chango+any other DD and full buff them and see who does what lol.
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By Spaitin 2020-06-06 19:39:21
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Asura.Snore said: »
think we need to find someone who has really good gear on dnc and fencer warrior
I have max dnc and fencer war. I have compared it a lot.

Best DPS combo for war is another war. DNC is probably tied for the third best DPS partner behind rune fencer. Rune fencer just does such a great job dealing with wars lack of MEVA, I used to consider rune fencer the number 1 DPS partner for war, but i have found a lack of a need for MEVA lately. DNC does pretty well with the 6x climactic rudra in a 1 hour zerg though, I have used that a lot for helms. Pretty fun to do. I would say dnc is a great DPS partner for war. They both have great buffs for the rest of the party. Only draw back is SC synergy. But if I am using DNC builds then i typically am not concerned about SC. Fudo, Torc, LH reso, etc all make light both ways with upheaval. I would say dnc is tied with sam for DPS partner. DNC makes the war more powerful, but drk and sam should do more dmg than the dnc.

I guess it depends on what you mean by "best".

With dnc you can get the bard and cor to go with fencer builds as well. It works really well. The cor during warcry is looking at 2k TP bonus with a fencer build, kinda fun to do that. Single wield will actually TP better than DW if you can get haste capped with haste samba.

I usually have the dnc go fencer build or karambit. Karambit is a hidden gem on dnc. But wrong thread for that.
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By Afania 2020-06-06 20:22:30
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Asura.Snore said: »
Idk, maybe I just love the pairing but I actually think we need to find someone who has really good gear on dnc and fencer warrior and compare it to Chango+any other DD and full buff them and see who does what lol.

If I have a party with war+dnc as a DD I'd make dnc solo multistep 1 mob and war on another mob anyways. Dnc is a MUCH stronger DD if it's the only DD on the NM doing multisteps. 1 dnc doing multistep can deal as much dps as 2-3 DD spamming the same WS because sc dmg multiplies. When 2 people just spams ws on the same target it's actually less effective. If the content only has 1 target then my preferred pairing is war+cor for obvious reasons:2 rolls+light SCs.
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 Siren.Kyte
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By Siren.Kyte 2020-06-06 21:05:43
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That completely invalidates why you'd pair a DNC with a WAR though lol
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By Spaitin 2020-06-06 21:08:21
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Afania said: »
If I have a party with war+dnc as a DD I'd make dnc solo multistep 1 mob and war on another mob anyways
What event you doing with multiple targets? lol Trash mobs in dyna or ambu? Odyssey NM die in 1 hit so probably not that either. How you getting haste samba for the war when attacking something else? Run and tag the mob then run back every 10 seconds? If you are having the dnc run off and do something else then you will NOT have the war on the fencer build.

Kinda missing the point of the discussion.

Afania said: »
If the content only has 1 target then my preferred pairing is war+cor for obvious reasons:2 rolls+light SCs.
Do you mean an extra cor? or did you mean something else entirely? Since your party would already have a cor. SAM WAR DRK DRG MNK RUNE would all be better replacement for the dnc.
 Asura.Snore
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By Asura.Snore 2020-06-07 17:45:00
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I also, have been theory crafting Retaliation Warrior with Arke body head and legs. Paired with Empy feet and AF hands on top of a Adapa Shield and Naegling. While this set loses 7 WSD and 50 Bonus TP the amount of TP you gain from Adapa Shields blocks and Retaliation procs allows you to slam SB's we're talking the fastest i've ever gained tp on anything outside of maybe Kclub cheese. Your white damage goes up insanely and you're extremely safe in the Arke gear. The weakness I see with this set is while status's don't land a lot you're rather weak to magic damage but you're stacking DT and ytou can /RUN to help with that problem. Your extremely fast attacks will also net you a small little boost from the RUN damage aswell. I'm not sure if this is out DPS'ing normal Fencer Warrior but it's TP much much much faster IMO and while the WS's are a bit less i'm doing legit double the amount of them. I'd love for others to try it. As either a solo DD or a multi dd set up. The only issue I could see is the Warrior having hate issues but with retaliation and adapa shield you gain a lot of hate tools by just existing.

Just a small edit but this set also allows 50 DT with just these pieces and an augmented jse cape. This allows you to have extreme freedom on neck, belt, rings, earrings, ammo if need be. On top of everything the Arke set and Adapa shield give you extremely high HP this makes you extremely tanky and able to take big hits if for some reason you can't take a hit with 50 DT. 120 HP from the shield, 225 hp from body, 156 from the head, and 191 from the legs. Just from 4 pieces you gain a wooping 692 HP alone add in the af hands and empy feet you're rocking 768 bonus HP on top of 50 DT.
Another point i'd like to add is the fact that you gain 15 enmity from the AF +3 gloves full time and with all the extra little damage you do that enmity quickly adds up. This set is something I wish more Warriors brought to the table. Can easily tank omen bosses like this.

I guess one other issue is your tp feed is insane. levels but it's a cycle with this set. If you're able to take damage you give it back out and as you give more tp they feed you more tp aswell which increases the cycle.
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By SimonSes 2020-06-08 05:45:16
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Asura.Snore said: »
I guess one other issue is your tp feed is insane. levels but it's a cycle with this set. If you're able to take damage you give it back out and as you give more tp they feed you more tp aswell which increases the cycle.

I dont really see logic in this. If you give a lot of tp, then mob will do tp moves a lot. If it does tp moves, it doesnt melee, if it doesnt melee, you dont retaliate and block, so im not sure how this "increasing the cycle" works.
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 Asura.Snore
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By Asura.Snore 2020-06-08 16:57:18
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Mainly due to the Arke bonus, since TP moves will do much more damage than Melee. But i'm not sure on the TP bonus from Arke.
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By Spaitin 2020-06-08 23:35:57
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Asura.Snore said: »
Mainly due to the Arke bonus, since TP moves will do much more damage than Melee. But i'm not sure on the TP bonus from Arke.

I have the full arke set. Only thing I get much worth out of it for is cleave set ups. You will tp faster against a single target using a standard TP set. Unless the mob is just mangling you, the TP feed is kinda meh. This goes double for a fencer build. Fencer does not get near the benefit from over tping that other builds do. During warcry you are looking at 1780 (i think) TP bonus. So anything over 1220 is a waste of TP. Honestly, Arke might be better if you got rid of the DT and just added some MEVA. I use arke to solo glass craver on war if you are into that sort of thing.
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By Afania 2020-06-12 11:42:25
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Siren.Kyte said: »
That completely invalidates why you'd pair a DNC with a WAR though lol

That was my point, lol. The extra dps gain from samba may not outweight the extra dps from multistep SC. Multistep SC is just THAT good, sacrifice it to samba a warrior may not be worth it.


Spaitin said: »
What event you doing with multiple targets? lol Trash mobs in dyna or ambu? Odyssey NM die in 1 hit so probably not that either. How you getting haste samba for the war when attacking something else? Run and tag the mob then run back every 10 seconds? If you are having the dnc run off and do something else then you will NOT have the war on the fencer build.

Kinda missing the point of the discussion.

I guess I didnt make my point clear enough in last post. In this thread people suggested pairing fencer war with dnc for samba. But I see it sacrifices a lot of dps for fencer,

In normal 6 man pt setup is usually tank DD cor brd geo heal. So a war+dnc setup loses roll to begin with.

In ambu or dyna dnc is much stronger as solo dps on 1 target because of how good it is at multistep sc. 1 dnc solo multi step can deal same amount of dps as 2-3 other dd spamming the same ws. As soon as dnc spams ws with war on the same target you are losing at least 1-2 DD worth of dps for warrior fencer. Even if warrior fencer is 1.5 times stronger than other weapon builds, its possible that it still deals less party damage from losing SC.

If you want haste samba, IMO getting brd sub dnc is the most efficient use of man power since brd can spam SB with a war on the same target and you arent using SC dmg with brd+war setup to begin with. It's only 5% haste but better than nothing. And you get to keep cor in the setup too, or use dnc in multi target fights.
 Phoenix.Pugnax
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By Phoenix.Pugnax 2020-06-25 20:48:22
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should i be using fotia belt and waist for upheaval? if not, what would be ideal? Dont have JSE neck at the current but im assuming that is the better thing to use
 Phoenix.Ayrendel
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By Phoenix.Ayrendel 2020-06-26 11:03:25
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Phoenix.Pugnax said: »
should i be using fotia belt and waist for upheaval? if not, what would be ideal? Dont have JSE neck at the current but im assuming that is the better thing to use

hi, Pug
 Shiva.Eightball
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By Shiva.Eightball 2020-06-26 12:33:33
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I’m not sure if JSE neck will beat fotia for upheaval since it does not have vit on it I don’t think it would and upheaval being 4 hit with FTP transferring making fotia add .4 ftp w/o a MA proc I don’t have anything to check it right now but I would bet on fotia for upheaval.
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By SimonSes 2020-06-26 12:43:29
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Shiva.Eightball said: »
I’m not sure if JSE neck will beat fotia for upheaval since it does not have vit on it I don’t think it would and upheaval being 4 hit with FTP transferring making fotia add .4 ftp w/o a MA proc I don’t have anything to check it right now but I would bet on fotia for upheaval.

If Upheaval have fTP transfer on hits, it would be the best WS in game and WAR would be top 1 DD probably almost doubling dps of second best lol.

Upheaval does not have ftp transfer :)
 Bahamut.Yiazmat
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By Bahamut.Yiazmat 2020-06-26 12:50:25
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Quote:
should i be using fotia belt and waist for upheaval? if not, what would be ideal? Dont have JSE neck at the current but im assuming that is the better thing to use

Fotia is good if you dont have anything else, but jse neck / isokeha belt are bis for upheaval. If you use Lycurgos ill advise you to use Unmoving Collar +1 R15 and Ioskeha belt for extra tp bonus.
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By SimonSes 2020-06-26 12:55:03
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Bahamut.Yiazmat said: »
If you use Lycurgos ill advise you to use Unmoving Collar +1 R15

The bonus is based on current HP, so increasing max HP on WS set wont help you at all.
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By Shiva.Eightball 2020-06-26 12:56:29
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Hmm I guess it doesn’t say it transfers on the wiki, I thought all the merit WSs did.
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By SimonSes 2020-06-26 13:02:24
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Shiva.Eightball said: »
Hmm I guess it doesn’t say it transfers on the wiki, I thought all the merit WSs did.

With fTP transfer and 3.5 fTP at 2000TP and 6.5 fTP at 3000TP, you would pretty much do like 70-99k damage with Chango during spam and 99k all the time with Warcry up.
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 Phoenix.Pugnax
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By Phoenix.Pugnax 2020-06-26 18:51:40
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Phoenix.Ayrendel said: »
Phoenix.Pugnax said: »
should i be using fotia belt and waist for upheaval? if not, what would be ideal? Dont have JSE neck at the current but im assuming that is the better thing to use

hi, Pug

hi, Ayrendel
 Asura.Mystikangel
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By Asura.Mystikangel 2020-06-29 14:55:44
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for upheaval, should i be using taupe stones (on ody hands and valor legs) to try for VIT+15~ and WSD+4 or VIT+10~ and WSD+5 with fern? the more i think about it the more i'm leaning towards taupe. currently i have WSD+5 but no VIT from fern on both pieces.
 Asura.Crowned
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By Asura.Crowned 2020-06-29 15:29:47
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Taupe

Edit: should be using odyssean legs rather than valor legs as well
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By Lakshmi.Avereith 2020-06-29 15:47:00
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Asura.Crowned said: »
Taupe

Edit: should be using odyssean legs rather than valor legs as well
Why? Honest question btw not being snarky
 Asura.Crowned
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By Asura.Crowned 2020-06-29 15:49:37
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5 stp and 15 extra acc. If you mean why to taupe, 5 vit > 1 wsd for upheaval

Edit: Also afaik, vit is an off path augment for melee path on valorous gear, but not for odyssean.
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