(Don't) Fear The Reaper: A Dark Knight Guide

Ironically, Chango actually NEEDS that extra TP Bonus advantage to even compete with Torcleaver, because it's a far weaker WS. However, this isn't about "TP speed", but effective TP. If you put both DRK and WAR in the same party with Warcry, with DRK having 600 less effective TP due to gear, Torcleaver hits harder at a lower TP value than Upheaval does. Evidently not, according to the 2 links at the bottom of this post (there's an effective difference of 4k damage at both attack cap and uncap between the jobs). Corrected*


We need context, because this is kind of misleading if we use the "eye test" and only reveal limited sim parameters.

LR lasts 3 minutes, is down for 70 seconds. What exactly are you fighting in a side-by-side comparison vs WAR where the DRK loses it's attack speed for a minute, but Warrior also doesn't lose their Warcry bonus (which can't last more than 60 seconds without Diamond Aspis)? What is WAR using for support job, SAM for Hasso or DRG for WS Bonus trait? If it's SAM, the WARs WS damage will be lower than the DRKs. If the DRK is subbing SAM, the JA Haste loss is insconsequential. So you have to post the entire thing, because either WAR will have inferior TP speed or inferior WS damage.

What are the total numbers for white damage/ws damage split in your parameters? Is attack capped?

Also, AM3 building isn't necessarily a thing if what we are talking about is fights sub 1 minute. That's an unfair comparison if you say "Well, DRK needs to build 3k TP so it's white damage would be higher in a short fight, but WAR can WS right away with Warcry and get 2-3 WS off before DRK gets one off." If what you are saying is DRK needs AM3 to compete in terms of total damage vs a WAR, then that assumes DRK's WS damage is so far below WARs that it needs that buff to keep up. Caladbolg AM3 is ODT, not OA2/3. So if we are talking a straight WS fight, DRK would use all it's buffs immediately and WS at the requisite TP value. What do the numbers say for WS for each job from your sim?



But what I am saying is it's misleading. It doesn't have anything to do with Prime vs Non Prime. You have to give every parameter and show the actual numbers, or else you are cherry picking buffs in favor of DRK or WAR and not the other and comparing those numbers to each other, instead of doing it in a vacuum with equal parameters, TP bonus gear aside (that advantage clearly goes to WAR).


Would need to see your sets on both jobs. Because if I use these two pages and compare TTWS:

https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/All_Jobs_Gear_Sets/Warrior
https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/All_Jobs_Gear_Sets/Dark_Knight

Using the top end sets for Helheim on WAR and all the other sets on DRK (so both Limbus gear, yes I know, unrealistic but it's just numbers). Both jobs have a near-identical TP speed to 1k. So if what you are saying is that the TP bonus on your WAR gear pushes you to a higher threshold faster than on DRK (which is correct), then we still need to see the actual WS numbers to see the relative damage difference between the two (we can, the links above). "Feeling slow" is only as important to the relative damage you put out at each WS value. If it takes an extra 2 seconds to WS at a higher TP value on DRK but it does like 8k more damage, then you have to add the white damage DRK also accumulated in those two seconds, plus the extra damage from the WS and report back the entire sequence per job.

*For example (straight numbers out of my ***): If DRK takes two seconds slower to hit the same TP at WAR, but deals 8k more damage in those two seconds, plus 8k more WS damage because of higher attack/pdl/souleater bonus and just a better WS being used at the same TP value as WAR, DRK's attack round was 16k damage. If over time the WAR is able to pull off several more WS than DRK (like 5 more due to being able to WS 2 seconds faster), we need to add the extra damage from those WS and compare it to DRKs over the same period of time. You can't say "DRK is slower because i have to wait longer to WS at higher TP" and ignore the damage increase because of it. It has to be controlled because these comparisons can easily be misinterpreted if you are not giving the whole story.

Also, if it takes 8 full seconds to get to enough TP on DRK at the same value as WAR (3 whole seconds longer), I can absolutely see why people would say DRK is slower. But I still think the comparison is flawed just based on how you have presented it.

I'm ngl man you care about this way more than me.

My Drk definitely gets taken to gapplebees by my War DPS wise but I also havent played in a party of people since 2015 so I'm not gonna sit here and say my situation is applicable to others.

My gripe has been the lack of modern STP gear DRK has received compared to WAR/SAM/DRG, which makes DRK feel slower imo. DRK's JSE leans too much into the caster side of the job, none of which obviously does anything to help keep up with tp gain. The balance I guess is DRK is on really tanky sets and has incredible sustain with Foenaria. Now, with fully auged Sworn + Ampulla, you have mythic AM3+2. It's just a miserable grind to get there.

DRK could use some love, but for what it's worth I don't regret my choice to S5 Foenaria at all. It's absolutely worth the cost with the utility and damage it offers. My only wish is it also had Apoc's aftermath to eliminate LR downtime.

I just looked at the numbers for Anguta/Cross Reaper VS Chango/Upheaval on the Job Sets page for DRK and WAR.

DRK attack uncapped/capped: 43k, 59k
WAR attack uncapped/capped: 39k, 50k

Difference of 4k/9k WS damage using the same class of weapons (Aeonic). This is why I said using limited parameters and cross-comparing weapons is misleading. You are giving 500 TP Bonus for Chango and comparing it to a weapon without and also talking about TP speed in the mix. But when you use Aeonic Scythe in place of Caladbolg, DRK is way ahead of WAR with the same class of weapons because TP bonus is effectively same for both jobs. Now you can argue Warcry pushes the difference further, but my point was context.

There isn't a Chango/Anguta TP set on those pages, so i can't compare the TTWS between both jobs using both weapons, and see the difference in TP speed.


If this is your response, then we can move on because it's a cop out. This is a DRK forum where we discuss the job amongst ourselves. If you don't care to discuss further your experience so others can have context and understand, then why bother share in the first place? Don't take it as personal that I am trying to have a discussion about the comments shared, I honestly want to understand the points of view. People will read these comments in the future, so the more information we share and talk through will definitely help someone who might ask later on. But if someone makes a claim and has no intention of backing it up, it's kind of trolling and a waste of time.

I agree heavily. I have battled with going to Nyame path A for a few pieces for a while, but haven't been able to justify losing WSD path. There's a mismatch of STP gear that DRK uses, but it's all mostly a defensive liability compared to other options. Thankfully, that's why Foenaria/Origin is so good IMO; You can afford to use outdated/squishy sets of gear because you have a free heal (until you miss at 200HP and die :p) every couple of seconds. So you feel the sting of having less STP options less than other jobs would.

Drk swings like a turtle

Maybe the Anguta/Cross Reaper thing is the solution, never heard anyone say anything remotely good about that and everyone points to Caladbolg for pre-prime damage.

I just don't care to get into an argument about sim parameters or event styles when I know I play very casually and probably differently than you or most. Was just adding my experiences as someone that decided they wanted to do a Drk project randomly not that long ago.

Yeah don't take it as an argument, just a discussion. Knowledge transfer. You are sharing information and I'm trying to understand/counter/correct with my own thinking, but based on actual information. I have no motive for proving I'm right and I welcome being incorrect or learning what I didn't know. No emotions here.

Experiences from non top level players are just as valuable (if not more valuable) than the feedback from top level players, since the are probably more people who are in a similar situation. So it's not a matter of your feedback is irrelevant. I only asked for context. Someone will read this conversation and it will benefit them, so I like adding as much information as possible so the meaning isn't lost. Not about caring more or less.

In any case, Anguta is highly competitive with Cross Reaper. Thing is, everyone almost always uses comps that cater to "all the buffs", and nothing else. So what you get is people who only ever recommend one set of gear/weapons and fully exclude others. Caladbolg is just simply stronger than Anguta by virtue of Torcleaver being boosted with augments and Anguta needing to use a WS that scales favorably with TP but not necessarily the one joined to the weapon. But doesn't mean Anguta is weak. Now I don't use my Anguta for much because Foenaria exists (used it in a Sortie to specifically avoid making a specific SC), but at least prior to primes, it was an excellent Aeonic weapon for something like Mboze KI1 Softening strat. Nobody brings it up anymore because it's lolAnguta/lolDRK. But it's a fairly strong weapon still. I only brought it up as a comparison because you focused on the tp bonus aspect of Chango. So it was a way of discussing the point about DRK being slower, because it has a longer time to get to requisite effective TP value vs Warrior. The point made was that the TTWS can be reduced further with the Aeonic scythe, not necessarily that it's optimal.

Gonna have to agree with the majority here:

-DRK feels slow as molasses when LR is down. I can feel the difference without even looking at my buff bar. It's often hard to keep up even a 3-step SC, even with a strong Samurai Roll
-WAR not only does better WS damage, but also brings way more to the group

I'd guess the reason DRK was beating WAR in your group was:
-They got Warcry from the WAR
-No subjobs, making it more even
-The WAR was using some shitty weapon like Chango?

We've tried Kalunga and some other fights (Mboze, etc.) with WAR and DRK, and WAR is always much better, when comparing them separately. The 1hrs are also MASSIVELY different. MS is like 5x more impactful than SE.

For TP rate, something that I don't think is getting enough attention here is Retaliation, especially when using 2h weapons. It won't show up on the sim (because it can't), but WAR retaliating against 1-5 enemies makes their TP absolutely blow the *** up. Plus Fencer, fulltime Berserk, Warcry (both for themselves and the party), and better 1hrs, it's just not a competition.

DRK-wise, I'm in a similar position to the rest of you. I have every DRK REMA, Foenaria, and Father Time. I've played it quite a lot in segments, a ton in Limbus, a bunch in Sortie, and on a few Gaol bosses. I've seen parses with lots of different friends' DRKs as well as mine, and it's consistently behind.

Fun job, very durable, offers some neat tricks, but pound-for-pound on damage/TTWS, it's not there.

Granted: I haven't messed around with Hoxne. It might make DRK play better or be more competitive, IDK.

WAR is a basic job, while DRK is an advanced job!
Clearly DRK is the stronger DD job!!!

You should make Foenaria stage 5 because it looks cool while you're standing in town afk.

That's literally its biggest selling point. *** knows its selling point is not max deeps.

And that's also why you never heard about Anguta CR spam! It's becoming a theme, whatever "everyone" says and hear is often partially incorrect or straight up bs.
I've read so many moot points being mentioned about DRK.. dafuq r u talkin about, Bukki spitting facts but y'all got no ears to listen!
There's no real "solution" cause there's no real problem. You nitpicked a bunch of convenient comparisons but things aren't that simple.
Even Lycurgos is a good early weapon for DRK, up to 1000tp bonus (F chango) to drop serious Steel Cyclones, Upheaval or Fell Cleaves.
A competent DRK knows how and when to ride Dread Spikes, when it's worth it to drain 3 ds/nv or when it's best to use it with Abs-STR or another stat. Ppl underestimate how much -60/-90 of a specific stat (which will stack with impact if used BEFORE it) can can make a difference in some cases, remove VIT and you're helping everyone's fSTR, remove AGI and you're helping reducing tp gains BEYOND subtle blow II cap (since dAGI can reduce tp gains up to 50% when you got enough AGI vs mob AGI), INT for nukes etc.

DRK rewards a lot more player's knowledge if you are creative enough to use its full kit. Asura has a HUGE problem when it comes to being creative outside from the braindead suggested popular strats and playstyles.

I know i can tribox all Vagary 5/5 full clear with DRK WHM COR with DRK doing every single thing, from Rancibus area with Lycurgos fell cleave spam from a corner at Brimboil face, to popping perf and plouton by doing 6 step solo with no ampulla active + all the MB objectives.

DRK also has Scarlet Delirium which we currently don't really optimize enough, but other DDs gotta hope nobody comes up with a react-type optimized lua specifically setup to use Delirium right before specific TP moves, cause that JA alone has the potential to be broken.


There would be so many things to add, too many players are so obsessed by storetp, time to ws and raw tp gains that they completely forget about overall dps, whitedmg impact/builds etc. on a job which can get up to 40%+ of its total dmg from autos when wielding empyrean weapons in a proper white dmg set, or 20-25% when using prime s4-5, which is still enough to make it worth optimizing it, compared to WAR pitiful 1h auto atk dmg to ws dmg ratio.

All things that i've already mentioned before btw in other posts related to sweaty DRKs dps.. whatever, y'all can keep playin SAM WAR etc etc and leave DRK to us if you don't click hard enough with it, lol

edit: forgot to mention the infinite MP + access to insane OA set and a good Impact prepull to get AM3 up is pure DRK privilege <3

I'm a little confused by the back and forth in a thread that's supposed to be a guide for DRK. The point should be helping players get more out of the job and sharing useful information.

Whether DRK is the "best" DD right now isn't really that important. It can still perform well in most content, even if it isn't always the optimal choice. Most groups aren't running fully min-maxed setups anyway, and people should play the jobs they enjoy without being made to feel bad for it.

I've been switching between DRK and DNC lately and enjoying both. The only time strict min-maxing really matters is at the very top end of content, and groups doing that usually already know what works best for their setup without having to ask here.

DRK might not be considered top-tier to some now, but that can always change later, which is reason enough to keep it geared and trying it out to see what we can get out of it. I'd love to be able to give the Sworn set a shot to see how it changes things. That's a long way in the future for me, as is making a Prime Scythe that I know for a fact I'll actually use.

It's important to guide a player into understanding every minute you waste on an inferior DD is two minutes you'll have to earn back gearing the right DD

If a new asks should I play DRK and you're not honest about it... The answer is almost universally I'd rather you were a WAR. It's good information to know.

If it makes ya feel better, I finally won a parse on drk with Foenaria on the basement bosses E-H. They were probably drunk/high/tired but who cares, thanks for the motivation guys <3.

Damage: Reidden 1787937(27.7%), WAR 1660175(25.7%), SAM 1638597(25.4%), BRD 736042(11.4%) COR 624175(9.7%), Skillchain (BRD) 25558(0.4%), Skillchain (SAM) 5357(0.1%), WHM 222(0.0%)

If the question is "how do I most effectively play the job I want to play?"

Your answer of "I want you to play a different job". Isn't helpful.

If the question was "what is the job for this role that most people want in a party", that would be different.

Well it all started with some suggestions. Then we get the argument that DRK is fine, then the counters. DRK is not fine, its used only if forced or for fun. I'm personally force playing it which is why I came up with the suggestions.

There is not a fight/event in the game where someone will request a DRK over other jobs. Its a slashing (*only) job competing with SAM and WAR which are both superior in group and solo content.

Souleater and Consume Mana are both pretty useless, that is why I based my suggestions around those JAs to make them viable.

Ampulla helps the job a lot, not as much as MNK but similar to DNC with Ampulla. I don't think Ampulla should be necessary as a balancing tool.

Here is my test set, not perfect but alterations won't be game breaking:

ItemSet 361770

I don't know who has been passing around the crack, but DRK is in the top 3 DD alongside SAM and DRG. Debate if its the "best" for "scenario", you can't debate the damage. It's undisputed top survival DD with highest DPS output, and it has the best SP for zerging for both increasing DPS and reducing Damage Taken (reduces TP moves via TP Drain) for yourself and others. So if we are being completely honest, I would take Origin DRK as a DD to PUG stuff over a WAR, just based on survivability factor alone.


No, you started with "DRK is slow".


When pressed to explain how it's slow compared to WAR when DRK has JA haste and WAR does not, you started deflecting into non-sequiturs about how DRK isn't desirable for any content over other options, refusing to elaborate more on the actual point you brought up. I still haven't gotten an answer to how it "plays slow" [compared to WAR].


Can you explain how WAR is superior to DRK in solo content?


This is kind of ironic Taint because you don't have Foenaria, so you kinda can't use Souleater without stressing your mage out for heals. With Origin, Souleater can be used fulltime for more damage output. I'll admit, Conserve Mana is a weak move, but with Origin you can pop it whenever it's ready and not bat an eye for MP. Ditto for Schere Earring. But those are small perks of the WS. I did mention SE should be longer now since there is virtually no threat with Foenaria(Apoc).

However, as far as damage output, there is no issue with DRK at all from what I can see. It has the highest PDL trait/attack output and immense utility, but it has always been a selfish DD job. That's mostly what holds it back the most, not that the job is weaker than others. It's that WAR/DNC adds more party utility over DRK because they buff others while DRK (like SAM) just focuses on brute force DPS. I really don't know what more you are looking for from DRK to do besides what it already does, just chunk a ton of damage. The job is doing exactly what it has always done since the beginning.

Well, not only is this information wrong, it's also silly. DD jobs are mostly interchangeable in pretty much all content, so it hardly matters which one you pick. A new player is not going to be at endgame for a long time, so they can enjoy the journey playing DRK if that is what they want to do. You operate in a bubble outside of new players, you have no idea that they don't really care if you play DRK or NIN or WAR. Even still, if someone gears DRK, they also indirectly gear WAR to an extent due to gear overlap. So there is no waste of time.

It's also a video game, so this 2008 mentality of "lol why you playing drk instead of war lololol" is real childish. Guide players in how to play the job they want to play effectively, you don't tell people to play another job. Maybe they just want to play DRK?

I haven't updated mine in a while and can't find a newer set on FFXIAH sets page, so I made one. Is this up to date? Yorium +10 OA (I don't have Alabaster Rank capped or Crep Cloak)

ItemSet 403032

There isn't a gaol fight you'd want Sam in it either. Do you then claim Sam needs "fixing" because it's not used in some content?

Idk what you want dude. Drk isn't Sam, it won't tp that fast. Nothing will tp as fast as Sam.

If you don't enjoy playing drk, why the *** are you force playing it.

Job Fatigue/Boredom. Same reason people try to reinvent Aminon strat after doing standard comp 200+ times. He made all the top Prime weapons for the meta jobs and he has to decide what to do with all the galli next. Felt underwhelmed going from SAM Mumei -> DRK where you shred the ***out of everything.

I can't blame his frustration, I stopped upgrading Dokoku to Stage 5 because I was disappointed, but my perspective is biased too, because of other jobs and their damage potential/prime, which made me feel like Dokoku wasn't as great (as other primes). That's what happens when you play meta jobs or compare things to Naegling, everything gets compared through that lens and you can never unsee it. Changes your priorities.

You need to enjoy off-meta jobs or it's just not going to be a fun time for you.

I know it's entertaining theory crafting and pushing the deeps envelope, but always remember it's a game.

I made stage 5 pinaka knowing full well I'd use it maybe once or twice ever. So it has been proven.

Personally I'd make scythe prime just for the lockstyle. It's an overrated weapon and too weak dps wise for its cost, though great utility.

Yes, Foenaria is weak dps wise. You may seethe, it is what it is.

Aimed at me? SAM was great for Mboze KI1. WS rotations, SB/SB2 options and full time Hasso. SAM also has many places where its the best DD job for the roll.

DRK is my favorite job. My Apoc just turned 19 years old. DRKs usefulness has had some high and low points in the history of this game. I played it on purpose this past week since I'm picking another Prime. DRK has some obvious flaws (its slow as ***to gain TP esp. with LR down), posted suggestions and the rest can be read by all.

I did Limbus runs on WAR,DRK and SAM this week. With Ampulla its similar to WAR, without its hard to justify for an hour long event.

Most players now have LOTs of jobs leveled, especially the ones that did Gaol. Comparing jobs is part of the experience. I could have a Foenaria tomorrow but I've played with many of the 2342343 Stage5s on Asura.

None of this matters, but our comp used DRK for most Gaol fights, because Geriond was notorious for not playing anything besides DRK RDM RUN. He used DRK on Gigelorum and Gogmagog (Loxotic Mace), he brought DRK to Bumba V20 (we got our clear with him on DRK), did our V25 Kalunga with him in one full KI, with him on DRK entire time (once we found out how to get him to stop stealing hate), and our first clear Mboze V20 one full KI was with him on DRK (we didn't use BLU back when these first came out). We also did 1 or 2KI Mboze V25 (cant remember what it was) with DRK using Scythe (and prepulling DSNV Liberator Drain-VIT) and alternating WS, but way before prime weapons and major gear creep. Same Subtle Blow setup. Soul Enslavement came in clutch for that fight too. He was always well ahead in damage for pretty much all of the fights besides the ones where he had a clear disadvantage (Gigelorum, Gogmagog), higher than WAR.

Now you can argue that DRK isn't the best job for any of those scenarios (I'd argue DRK is better in 2KI Mboze than SAM, because you won't be getting Overwhelm bonus and DRK hits harder, plus Liberator AM3 is significant TP gain), but neither is SAM. You played it because you had the benefit of a prime weapon, but no comps revolve around SAM at all (our early V15/20 Xevioso runs included SAM using a Polearm sometimes). So the argument is the same, you fit it in and had success, but it was not the best.

I used both Stage5 GS DRK and GKT SAM on Mboze. Mpaca legs gave SAM an SB2 advantage and having more solid WSs to Rotate. (Fudo,Shoha,Mumei all hit hard)

Its not the best scenario for SAM but I had access to both job with s5 primes ready.

Not sure if directed at me, but I never even did Aminon the mage or DNC way. I took a break before Aminon even existed, came back and people were already glowing purple. I saw how people were killing Aminon, decided I didn't want to have to gear up a new job to fight it that way, so I worked on killing it with MNK instead. Didn't actively try reinventing anything, just wanted to work with the tools I already had.
Only skimmed this conversation since I don't care about the topic much, but SAM does get Overwhelm for 2KI V25 Mboze, at least the way we did it.

It wasn't directed at you, more of a general statement based on feedback i have seen from others. Groups doing 9b nonstop suddenly looking for other ways to spice up the runs, doing different tasks/routes or job comps. I even joined a recent 9b attempt where they use RUN instead of PLD. Just the same old gets boring after a while, was my point.


My point for this was that Mboze has two Conal attacks, so if your tank (if you use one) is the only person taking damage (0s), it won't feed Mboze TP. If your SAM stands in the front, he will take damage and feed extra TP. Probably not a big deal, but we faced Mboze away for that reason, but we used DRK.


There are pros and cons to either job. DRK has less SBII and 1min of no JA haste (unless you switch to Apoc as an option).

Unironically, a Stage 5 Foenaria would have probably been better than either of those weapons for Mboze, because you will have unlimited heal potential (can probably skip that healer+tank spots entirely and add like a SMN or something). I don't know about SAM having "more solid WS to rotate; DRK has access to Cross Reaper, Origin, and Quietus. CR is about as stong as Fudo, Mumei > Origin, Tachi: Shoha is a weak WS altogether; Quietus is also comparably weak but has a unique trait where it can ignore defense, which is extremely helpful for dealing more damage in a fight you are less likely to have buffs/debuffs. DRK in KI1 is probably better suited with less buffs than SAM anyways because of its other abilities (Scarlet Delirium can be huge payoff if timed properly, Souleater, lolConsume Mana, Last Resort's attack, DSNV w/ Mythic Absorb VIT). So there are advantages to either job that I don't think puts SAM as firmly ahead of DRK in that fight.

And I don't even know how much MP Mboze has, maybe after enough Origins Mboze has none left and you won't need to silence him anymore =p

Don't people already agree that Aminon won't get TP if attacking a PLD for 0 damage despite the AoE hitting the rest of the party for over 0? I thought mobs only gain TP based on the damage dealt to their primary target, not subtargets of an AoE.