MACC Affinity Staves. [Flame Wars]

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MACC Affinity Staves. [Flame Wars]
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 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2012-12-11 17:30:55
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I don't believe thats the arguement he was trying to make, either, but in any case...

Again, pointing out that even if it does function the way you have proposed, it doesn't change the fact that accuracy and potency are two different things and you gear differently depending on which is more important. There are some situations where simply landing the spell is difficult, in those situations, you would never stack MND, you'd stack skill/macc.

If landing the spell isn't a concern but potency is, in the case of para and slow, which generally either land or are immunity resisted, potency is far more important, and you would stack MND not for the acc, but to make sure that you get the most out of their effects.
 Phoenix.Kaparu
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By Phoenix.Kaparu 2012-12-11 17:34:02
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For Christ's sake. That is not a parallel scenario.

A parallel scenario would be, "no ostrich has ever spoken Portuguese. Does it follow that Ostriches do not speak Portuguese?"

The answer would be yes.
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By Phoenix.Kaparu 2012-12-11 17:36:07
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Odin.Jassik said: »
I don't believe thats the arguement he was trying to make, either, but in any case...

Again, pointing out that even if it does function the way you have proposed, it doesn't change the fact that accuracy and potency are two different things and you gear differently depending on which is more important. There are some situations where simply landing the spell is difficult, in those situations, you would never stack MND, you'd stack skill/macc.

If landing the spell isn't a concern but potency is, in the case of para and slow, which generally either land or are immunity resisted, potency is far more important, and you would stack MND not for the acc, but to make sure that you get the most out of their effects.

You're arguing with the wrong person, then. I've never at any point in this thread posited any one specific approach to gearing for enfeebling.
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By Phoenix.Kaparu 2012-12-11 17:38:34
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You're suggesting that an anomaly exists. Support your assertion.
 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2012-12-11 17:43:58
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Phoenix.Kaparu said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
I don't believe thats the arguement he was trying to make, either, but in any case... Again, pointing out that even if it does function the way you have proposed, it doesn't change the fact that accuracy and potency are two different things and you gear differently depending on which is more important. There are some situations where simply landing the spell is difficult, in those situations, you would never stack MND, you'd stack skill/macc. If landing the spell isn't a concern but potency is, in the case of para and slow, which generally either land or are immunity resisted, potency is far more important, and you would stack MND not for the acc, but to make sure that you get the most out of their effects.
You're arguing with the wrong person, then. I've never at any point in this thread posited any one specific approach to gearing for enfeebling.

Just making the point that assuming that dMND affects accuracy of enfeebles at all is pointless since it would not affect the way you gear or what you target in any way. Its a mute point and has no proof besides a thought experiment involving the way a different class of magic is calculated.
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By Phoenix.Kaparu 2012-12-11 17:46:34
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Phoenix.Kaparu said: »

You can diminish precedence as you see fit, but introducing an anomaly on the basis of "lol well u got no proof" is not particularly compelling.
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By Odin.Jassik 2012-12-11 17:47:42
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Phoenix.Kaparu said: »
Phoenix.Kaparu said: »

So you can make a baseless claim and its up to everyone to prove you wrong? BTW in that article it states that we have no burden to disprove your baseless claim. ^^
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 Phoenix.Kaparu
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By Phoenix.Kaparu 2012-12-11 17:54:26
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1) My claim isn't baseless(see: precedence)

2) I've never witnessed such a woeful misinterpretation of the celestial teapot
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By Odin.Sawtelle 2012-12-11 17:56:49
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Why doesn't someone just go test it. It wouldn't require in depth testing to get basic support either way.

Pick a target you will have acc issues on naked (going something without enfeebling skill/mage would probably be easiest).

First do some casts naked to make sure you are having issues (somewhere around 50% acc would be good). Then cast while wearing magic acc (maybe about 40-60 magic acc). Once you have figured out about how much magic acc you need to get close to cap, stack as much mind as possible without putting on magic acc and observer resist rates. I would aim for having at least twice as much mnd as magic acc that you needed.

If you observe low resist rate mnd most likely works, if you observe high resist rate we know that mnd plays little to no effect.
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By Phoenix.Kaparu 2012-12-11 17:57:51
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We've already done that with one type of magic, and had confirmation of its applicability to another from the developers
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By Odin.Jassik 2012-12-11 17:58:02
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Phoenix.Kaparu said: »
1) My claim isn't baseless(see: precedence) 2) I've never witnessed such a woeful misinterpretation of the celestial teapot

Your assumption that acc and potency are effected by the same stat on one class of magic is the same as assuming that because INT effects ACC of nukes that STR must effect the ACC of WS in the same manner... it doesn't.

And the interpretation isn't an interpretation, its taken directly from the article you posted.
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By Phoenix.Kaparu 2012-12-11 18:00:51
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I'm inclined to invoke Poe's Law at this point.

Enfeebling magic, dark magic, and elemental magic have been proven to have their magic accuracy influenced by intelligence.

Songs have been proven to have their magic accuracy influenced by charisma.

Explain to me why white magic is the exception, because, again, precedence suggests the contrary.
 Diabolos.Yugl
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By Diabolos.Yugl 2012-12-11 18:03:56
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Odin.Jassik said: »
Phoenix.Kaparu said: »
1) My claim isn't baseless(see: precedence) 2) I've never witnessed such a woeful misinterpretation of the celestial teapot

Your assumption that acc and potency are effected by the same stat on one class of magic is the same as assuming that because INT effects ACC of nukes that STR must effect the ACC of WS in the same manner... it doesn't.

And the interpretation isn't an interpretation, its taken directly from the article you posted.

AFFECTS.
 Odin.Sawtelle
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By Odin.Sawtelle 2012-12-11 18:04:38
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Odin.Jassik said: »
Phoenix.Kaparu said: »
1) My claim isn't baseless(see: precedence) 2) I've never witnessed such a woeful misinterpretation of the celestial teapot

Your assumption that acc and potency are effected by the same stat on one class of magic is the same as assuming that because INT effects ACC of nukes that STR must effect the ACC of WS in the same manner... it doesn't.

And the interpretation isn't an interpretation, its taken directly from the article you posted.
actually it is the assumption that str must affect attack on WSs and Dex must affect acc....which they do. mix on we know chr affects brd songs and Int affects nukes and such. I'd have to tentatively side w/ Kapa on this one.
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 Fenrir.Sylow
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2012-12-11 18:04:40
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Oh my god, shut the *** up and do your research.

http://robonosto.blogspot.com/search/label/magic%20accuracy

Scroll down to "Experiments with Paralyze"
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 Phoenix.Kaparu
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By Phoenix.Kaparu 2012-12-11 18:04:47
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MUTE POINT

w
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By Methylated 2012-12-11 18:05:27
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On subject: Just hit 80 ToM Ice staff! GO GO GO POWERMETHYLATER
 Phoenix.Kaparu
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By Phoenix.Kaparu 2012-12-11 18:06:18
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Fenrir.Sylow said: »
Oh my god, shut the *** up and do your research.

http://robonosto.blogspot.com/search/label/magic%20accuracy

Scroll down to "Experiments with Paralyze"

Where were you an hour ago?

I had no idea this existed.
 Fenrir.Sylow
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2012-12-11 18:07:18
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It's linked on the "Magic Accuracy" page of BGWiki.
 Phoenix.Kaparu
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By Phoenix.Kaparu 2012-12-11 18:08:29
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I kept running into black magic testing, assumed it prevailed to he bottom :[
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2012-12-11 18:09:45
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Crtl+F
 Fenrir.Jinjo
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By Fenrir.Jinjo 2012-12-11 18:13:39
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Is it 2006 again?
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 Phoenix.Kaparu
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By Phoenix.Kaparu 2012-12-11 18:18:07
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Was 2006 the year when people foolishly spent sizable periods of time arguing with individuals lacking in the most basic of reading comprehension and critical thinking abilities?

Because, yes.
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By Siren.Kyte 2012-12-11 18:18:57
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Odin.Jassik said: »

By your logic the mechanics of WS's should be universal as well, when we know that they are not.

They are pretty universal for the most part. There are very few things in this game that function uniquely- and typically when things do function in a significantly different manner, it is because they were designed at very different periods in the game and probably by different developers (Looking at you, WS with transferring fTP and H2H WS with different description standards).
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By Phoenix.Kaparu 2012-12-11 18:19:59
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Kin37ix said: »
Quote:
Data is limited to 1000 trials, so it's not perfect. I ran some Chi Squared values and found that a lot of the little differences are too close to really call. I haven't really dug too deeply into the numbers yet though.

This test also doesn't have partial resists, which is probably its biggest downfall. Because of this, the %s seen are OVERSTATED as they include partial resists as non-resists.

Besides, your argument is invalid.



You should have worn more MND.

My shortcomings in PVP environments doesn't make you any less of an idiot.
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By Methylated 2012-12-11 18:24:00
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Every damn thread....
 Ragnarok.Sekundes
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By Ragnarok.Sekundes 2012-12-11 18:27:26
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Kin37ix said: »
Quote:
Data is limited to 1000 trials, so it's not perfect. I ran some Chi Squared values and found that a lot of the little differences are too close to really call. I haven't really dug too deeply into the numbers yet though.

This test also doesn't have partial resists, which is probably its biggest downfall. Because of this, the %s seen are OVERSTATED as they include partial resists as non-resists.

Quote:
This next data set comes from "FFXI Hunter's Bible Version II" and is the result of 8,000 casts of Paralyze

Quote:
I know it is kind of trivial to give such a summary (the result of fitting the saturated linear probability model) when you can inspect the data directly and see that MND does affect the accuracy of Paralyze, but it does conveniently summarize the precision of these point estimates in red.
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By Phoenix.Kaparu 2012-12-11 18:27:50
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Methylated said: »
Every damn thread....

In my defense, I went nearly twenty posts without whipping out any of the plentiful available ad hominems that presented themselves throughout the thread.

But if you're going to use a screencap of a PVP match as refutation to something entirely unrelated, you're at bare minimum being called out for being an idiot.