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The Sealed Dagger: A Ninja Guide
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3621
By Shiva.Onorgul 2013-11-30 23:30:32
My mistake, but it still is a diminishing buff rather than an increasing one. And? Impetus, as you pointed out, loses its accumulation with every miss which absolutely will happen a minimum of 1 in 20 hits. Innin gradually loses its bonuses. Both of them are non-static buffs that affect a basic secondary stat (Attack or Accuracy) and Critical Hit Rate. The big difference is uptime. In terms of uptime, though, Innin is identical to Saber Dance, with which it shares several other basic mechanics.
I didn't say that Innin is identical to Impetus, though, just suggested that its benefits (especially when divorced from facing requirements) are comparable. And wishing SE would make Innin consequently more usable.
 Valefor.Omnys
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1759
By Valefor.Omnys 2013-11-30 23:53:36
The job is in limbo because SE still regards it as a tank primarily and damage dealer second, even while the game has little use for a tank that can't deal enough damage (which, at the moment, means accelerating to enmity cap faster than the DD's via damage * enmity) and ninja can't at all supertank the mass of mobs that a pld can so laughably. Lacking self curing, it can't supertank one boss quite so laughably.
Any case where you need a tank, PLD is a better option and RUN behind that.
If they choose to ignore any semblance of an enmity system, Ninja is gone from alliances, and PLD only attends some as a crutch/safety-net/tool for convenience.
At least it's still fun in abyssea! :(
By Kyler 2013-12-01 00:20:17
SE never wanted ninjas to tank@.@ It was supposed to be a hybrid ranged DD spamming high dmg low delay ws and enfeebles. But they have no idea how game mechanics work and/or they never intended the strategy for things to be zerg zerg zerg brd brd whm refreshies. Until lately anyway, and now they have kind of just left some jobs in the dust.
Valefor.Omnys
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1759
By Valefor.Omnys 2013-12-01 00:43:35
Oh god, I knew that was coming, I didn't think it would be the very next reply.
Every time someone says "Ninja is a tank", someone has to reply with the super top-secret bit that SE didn't intend it to be that way.
We all know that Ninja was meant to be the damage dealer and the SAM was going to be the tank. However, ninja, as implemented was going to be a mediocre and expensive damage dealer, hardly worth the party spot. (Not only were they not the best at anything, they weren't even pretty good at anything).
So, speaking for 2013, the job is in limbo because SE still regards it as a tank primarily in a game environment where enmity doesn't work and ninja is awful at the only form of tanking left.
By Kyler 2013-12-01 00:58:01
Just add ilvl119 shuriken with skill+ and stack to 99 (or better yet sell pouches of 99) for plasm and we're back in business ;)
No but seriously even if you could muster up a stack of appropriately leveled shuriken in the day it was beastly. Base dmg of GKs with delay of dagger, pew pew white dmg
VIP
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9534
By Odin.Jassik 2013-12-01 01:04:34
Just add ilvl119 shuriken with skill+ and stack to 99 (or better yet sell pouches of 99) for plasm and we're back in business ;)
No but seriously even if you could muster up a stack of appropriately leveled shuriken in the day it was beastly. Base dmg of GKs with delay of dagger, pew pew white dmg
That's all well, but with no throwing WS and mediocre nuking damage, NIN's primary damage is melee, and it's melee damage sucks currently.
An evasion tank that neither evades or tanks, and a DD that doesn't deal damage. NIN isn't going to be useful for any of the current content outside of maybe a few niches.
[+]
Valefor.Omnys
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1759
By Valefor.Omnys 2013-12-01 02:07:45
To be honest though, didn't the enmity update precede delve weapons by like...a week or two? Sure, we didn't know it at the time, but the entire likely reason for the enmity update was that healers couldn't keep people alive throughout a fight without dying themselves.
The fact that tanking almost worked for a week was merely an unforeseen side-effect.
But yeah, I remember that week or two. I got paladin out and actually tanked things.
Bismarck.Llewelyn
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1029
By Bismarck.Llewelyn 2013-12-01 03:36:42
I'm just glad to be out of Thaumas finally. AF body looks so much better.
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1925
By Odin.Sawtelle 2013-12-01 05:24:49
Bismarck.Llewelyn said: »I'm just glad to be out of Thaumas finally. AF body looks so much better. I didn't know you felt that way. And I thought we could be friends.
[+]
Bismarck.Llewelyn
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1029
By Bismarck.Llewelyn 2013-12-01 05:40:53
I called it gay the moment I got it with you, though! And I thought you died or something. I miss my funny guy.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2507
By Asura.Calatilla 2013-12-01 05:58:33
For an evasive tanking job you'd think it would have evasion traits, yet it doesn't, even Pup have Evasion bonus III. And speaking of Shuriken, even at capped throwing skill their accuracy sucks.
Quetzalcoatl.Warusha
Server: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 28
By Quetzalcoatl.Warusha 2013-12-01 06:17:35
He's not real. He's a cyborg.
 Ragnarok.Afania
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2822
By Ragnarok.Afania 2013-12-02 09:25:03
SE never wanted ninjas to tank@.@ It was supposed to be a hybrid ranged DD spamming high dmg low delay ws and enfeebles. But they have no idea how game mechanics work and/or they never intended the strategy for things to be zerg zerg zerg brd brd whm refreshies. Until lately anyway, and now they have kind of just left some jobs in the dust.
/endthread
 Sylph.Peldin
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 837
By Sylph.Peldin 2013-12-03 13:23:55
Bismarck.Llewelyn said: »Bismarck.Llewelyn said: »Thaumas body, Koga +2 legs, Nusku's Sash would be second best assuming you're asking about the TP set.
I just wanted to add that Manibozho feet are better than Otronif feet unless your Otronif are aug'd with +2 DA. Maybe common sense to some, but just in case. lol
Also, the OP has sets with a lot of the "2nd best" gear in those gearsets.
For both weaponskills, Rancor Collar + Atheling Mantle if you don't have Rancorous Mantle.
[+]
Bismarck.Llewelyn
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1029
By Bismarck.Llewelyn 2013-12-03 14:08:55
I just wanted to add that Manibozho feet are better than Otronif feet unless your Otronif are aug'd with +2 DA. Maybe common sense to some, but just in case. lol There's a lot more variables that will effect which feet are better, but a simplified version is basically:
Uncapped attack use Manibozho R15A if Otronif unaugmented, Otronif if augmented with at least 1 DA or 1 Crit.
Capped attack use Otronif (unaugmented or augmented).
Also, I actually use Crit+2 Otronif Boots for NIN since the feet are also used for Blade: Hi.
By boneslasher 2013-12-04 06:23:46
im looking at trying nin/rdm whats a good cure set? Ive made a set did i miss anything? ItemSet 316375
Sylph.Peldin
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 837
By Sylph.Peldin 2013-12-04 08:38:41
Bismarck.Llewelyn said: »Otronif if augmented with at least 1 DA or 1 Crit That assumes the STP+7 saves you a round? Manibozho has +2 DA already so it should out perform Otronif with only +1 DA (for TPing). Of course, dDEX, accuracy, and attack caps all can come in to play depending on the target.
Bismarck.Llewelyn
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1029
By Bismarck.Llewelyn 2013-12-04 11:44:41
im looking at trying nin/rdm whats a good cure set? Ive made a set did i miss anything? ItemSet 316375Would probably get more out of Uk'uxkaj Cap than Anwig. Maybe Asklepian over Sirona's also? Not sure about that one.
That assumes the STP+7 saves you a round? Using my posted TP set, it pretty much always knocks off a hit.
Leviathan.Kincard
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1442
By Leviathan.Kincard 2013-12-14 04:25:46
I'm updating this guide again for the 2 people that read it, just fyi~
By Pantafernando 2013-12-14 04:42:10
Leviathan.Kincard said: »I'm updating this guide again for the 2 people that read it, just fyi~
Sometimes 3.
4 if you consider i use 2 accounts.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4307
By Asura.Ackeronll 2013-12-14 04:53:58
Leviathan.Kincard said: »I'm updating this guide again for the 2 people that read it, just fyi~ 
Don't let this become like the SAM, MNK, THF, SMN, BLM, WHM, PLD, COR, and DNC guides.
By Pantafernando 2013-12-14 04:58:18
To ws dmg calculation, isnt just the main hand dmg, attack and accuracy that enter o the equation?
Or offhand add some term in that?
Odin.Esor
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 60
By Odin.Esor 2013-12-14 05:01:18
can the nuking set get an update? i think its mostly hachiya now anyway.
thx.
Leviathan.Kincard
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1442
By Leviathan.Kincard 2013-12-14 05:04:24
Forgot about the nuke set, though not like you'd ever do it. Considering removing it altogether for the moment until they add magic damage onto katanas or something, it's not an impossibility given that I'm pretty sure they added it to a few swords already.
To ws dmg calculation, isnt just the main hand dmg, attack and accuracy that enter o the equation?
Or offhand add some term in that?
Your offhand always adds a hit to your WS, which can multiattack, so in those cases it will use the Damage/Weaponskill on your offhand to calculate stuff.
By Pantafernando 2013-12-14 05:20:09
Leviathan.Kincard said: »Forgot about the nuke set, though not like you'd ever do it. Considering removing it altogether for the moment until they add magic damage onto katanas or something, it's not an impossibility given that I'm pretty sure they added it to a few swords already.
To ws dmg calculation, isnt just the main hand dmg, attack and accuracy that enter o the equation?
Or offhand add some term in that?
Your offhand always adds a hit to your WS, which can multiattack, so in those cases it will use the Damage/Weaponskill on your offhand to calculate stuff.
But the majority of dmg/skill should be from mainhand right? So even if pamun have higher dmg, its worth keeping it in main hand being that has -40 skills thanthe offhand?
Leviathan.Kincard
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1442
By Leviathan.Kincard 2013-12-14 05:27:10
Correct, I would definitely recommend putting the highest skill weapon in your mainhand over DMG first unless you are fighting something low level (skill only gives accuracy/attack anyway).
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 558
By Sylph.Hyunkyl 2013-12-22 10:25:18
How easy are Isgebind, Orthrus and Apademak nowadays? Got 4 empy to 90 since I already have some items from earlier brews bac in the days... Would be soloing them if it makes any difference!
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 193
By Phoenix.Neosutrax 2013-12-22 10:34:14
Easily solo-able but you'd want TH for the weapon upgrade drops. I'd also go /dnc for stunning Apademak's casting so he doesn't level up.
Leviathan.Kincard said: »I'm updating this guide again for the 2 people that read it, just fyi~
Don't let this become like the SAM, MNK, THF, SMN, BLM, WHM, PLD, COR, and DNC guides.
Hey I updated the Pld guide :<.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4307
By Asura.Ackeronll 2013-12-22 11:44:16
Phoenix.Neosutrax said: »Easily solo-able but you'd want TH for the weapon upgrade drops. I'd also go /dnc for stunning Apademak's casting so he doesn't level up.
Leviathan.Kincard said: »I'm updating this guide again for the 2 people that read it, just fyi~
Don't let this become like the SAM, MNK, THF, SMN, BLM, WHM, PLD, COR, and DNC guides.
Hey I updated the Pld guide :<.
Sorry my bad. Kinda hard to tell for PLD since they use so much old gear lol.
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