The Sealed Dagger: A Ninja Guide

Anyone know what the times are now for the activation of the movement speed on Hachiya Kyahan +4? It says evening to early morning. I looked up evening and the only thing I could find was on ffxiclopedia which says 18:00-20:00 is this correct? So 18:00 to 8:00? or maybe 16:00 to 8:00? I am assuming it's 16:00 to 8:00 because that would be an upgrade to the norm (17:00 to 7:00).

Thanks.

It'll be the same as +3, don't know how someone messed up the text

TBH, not unreasonable to just strike "without going the Prime route". Heishi is the best potential DPS weapon for NIN if Hybrids work (which is most of the time), and is the most well rounded katana - also performs well on TP scaling physical WS (Ten), does good SC damage (the Radiances have some use, like Buukki mentioned), and is the best Blade: Shun mainhand (Shun is useful too - SCs with a lot of stuff including making light with Savage Blade, good phys WS option if underbuffed).

Dokoku's niche is purely for physical WS and some SC purposes, and Heishi w/ Blade: Ten still wins for physical a lot of the time if you aren't able to take advantage of SCing with the Prime. As does Naegling with Savage.


Nagi shouldn't win over Heishi in total DPS, but you're definitely underestimating Nagi's performance on hybrids. Mythic AM3 works on WS, is very effective on hybrids, and has a high proc rate (40% OA2 / 20% OA3).

As long as Hybrids work, Nagi is basically second best option from a DPS perspective. And it's probably closer than you think.

For instance, just from quick and dirty estimates with the Kastra sim and reasonably realistic buffs/gear (standard +8song BRD March x2/Min x2, Sam/Chaos rolls, Dia II/Light shot, R25 Ody gear, WS at 1500-2000tp, same Malignance x5 TP set for consistency, Blade:Chi):
Heishi/Kunimitsu (r25): ~83M damage over 2hours, ~11.5k DPS
Nagi/Kunimitsu(r25): ~79M damage over 2 hours, ~10.9k DPS (but Mythic AM3 was assumed, so realistically will be lower due to needing to maintain AM3)

They both crap all over any physical WS though, including Heishi/Ten, Dokoku/Zesho (ignoring SC damage), Naegling/Savage. Major caveat that, of course, that has to be in a situation where hybrid WS are effective. But that's a lot of practical situations: Dyna-Divergence waves 1-2, many Sheol mobs, Omen, theoretically it could work on a lot in Sortie (people just don't usually bring NIN), looks likely a lot of Neo Limbus will be good...

So if you have other reasons to want to use Nagi, like adding some enmity to play in a little tankier style (but without the major DPS drop of going to something like Fudo Masamune C), it's probably better than you're giving it credit for.


EDIT: I should probably also mention that Heishi's flexibility at being great for both hybrids and physical is very useful if you're in an event moving rapidly between mobs. Sheol C maybe you get a couple packs of mobs where hybrids are monstrous, but then you pull a pack that needs physical damage. With Heishi, no prob just switch to Ten for that pack. Harder with Nagi - I'll often do something like quick Kamu->Shun light, maybe Shun->Ten->Kamu, but you'll lose some DPS. Or switch weapon entirely.

I have confirmed that Hachiya Kyahan +4 provides +24% movement speed (measured with the TargetInfo Windower add-on) between 17:00 and 07:00; the same as Hachiya Kyahan +3.

However, the +4 version notably provides +40 Evasion and +25 Magic Evasion over the +3 version. This is 20 more Evasion than Malignance and Nyame, but is also 41 less Magic Evasion and unfortunately has no DT.

Is there any reason to build AF2+3 Body/Legs for Ninja these days, other than completionism? I have r30 Nyame, so the legs would be a horizontal upgrade at +4 I think, unless I'm missing something.

Career NIN can build legs and switch nyame to path C then. Path C is massive upgrade for MB ninjutsu, while Nyame path B is marginal gain over relic legs.

Where you gonna get mab wsd legs then for the hybrid elemental ws

Yep, would be a terrible decision to give up far and away the best legs (Nyame B) for hybrid WS when those are, more often than not, your best damage WS. And no, Nyame C MAB/M.Dmg/INT augments do not match Nyame B WSD/Atk/DA/STR augments.

And of course, almost anyone is going to play jobs other than NIN. It's hard to even justify the idea of a "career [job]" in FFXI when we're talking about highly ranked up Odyssey gear, which inherently is going to require that the player has multiple well geared jobs just to do the related Odyssey content. (unless they're solely paying mercs for clears or something)

Path C is only few % behind path B for hybrids.

Yes, but those other jobs can also have jse WSD legs (there is 8 jobs with jse WSD legs) and those other jobs could also be mages and Nyame path C are best magic burst legs in the game for all mages too.

Different use cases and application, but I find it very rare and hard to believe that anybody (career ninja or otherwise) would make BIS nuke legs for a job that isn't conventionally brought to nuke setups. The mage jobs makes a lot more sense, but with hybrids being so strong and useful and Ninja nuking not being a primary focus, I'd think a career Ninja would prioritize hybrid damage over nuke damage.

With all that being said, I'm considering changing some nyame pieces as an option at some point in the future because I looked at several of my jobs jse+4 wsd pieces and said "meh I have nyame why bother". But eventually I might make all of the wsd +4 pieces and realize I don't need nyame anymore, since power creep allows for different builds. So it's good information to know ahead of time, things may change later.

It is important to emphasize Nyame path c is disgusting for ninjutsu and while you would lose a little for hybrids realistically they are probably damage capped in situations where you use them regardless.

Sadly they are only a minor upgrade to mages nukes they have far more competitive options than nin does and still a lot of jobs that really want path B. Heck path A would be worth considering as well if i decided i could get away without B.

With NIN relic head being BiS for hybrids with now +4 offering 64 MAB... Nyame legs path c is 65mab, it can't be that far behind at r30. I know the blend of mab/att/wsd/da etc is what makes it so beneficial for hybrids but all sets posted are assuming r25 nyame and not r30 which may be an option for some inidividuals. I certainly would be curious if r30 changes anything at all for any of my jobs lol.

I am in the process of trying to figure out where I can realistically change some slots without seeing much loss. I am okay with marginal dps loss using +4 AF/Relic if it means faster tp gain etc through path A etc. But I haven't figured out exactly how the change to nyame paths would affect my jobs overall.

How disgusting we talking? Enough to completely replace a BLM in Sortie?

Disgusting like who would even bother getting it.

You guys only see group end game max dps scenarios again. By career ninja I mean someone like NextGames from YouTube who mostly play NIN and mostly solo. Double MB ninjutsu on every self SC is his bread and butter and he is doing majority of damage with those MBs.

+22% damage on MB in solo scenario.

And if my old spreadsheet isn't completely broken that's just the legs, throw in the body and hands path C and it gets closer to +70%... of course then you are really sacrificing a lot both on NIN and other jobs to go all in on nukes.

Yeah all 3 is around 65%, but I'm realisticaly looking only on legs for NIN since you want wsd body and hands still.

Well, of course. It takes a max end game group to achieve r30 Nyame, so logically people want to put their gear to use in settings that match the content. Improving magic burst damage on Ninja so you can deal more nuke damage vs locus crawlers or normal ambuscades solo, although kind of cool, also lol. That's kind of odd. Logical might do something like that because of the style of play he does, but I'd argue someone like a Papesse who is high level and maybe picked Nyame D still uses his SMN in endgame group content and not for just messing around solo. A ninja making a move to nuke focused Nyame probably would want to use their ninja in endgame content, which is why I asked how it compares to BLM. If you're talking about just fighting trash in general, that's important context to include when stating how "massive" the damage increase on nuke path Nyame is.

The context is using NIN whenever it fits and also solo in less or more challenging content. For example solo Dhartok would most likely be done with SC+MB or possibly even only ninjutsu, similar to BLU. NIN can probably work well in 8/8 magic damage sortie run, but it would be more like replacing RNG in rng/blm/sch/cor/brd/run setup. So you could both MB and create SC.

Lets turn around your question.. will doing 3% more damage with hybrids and 0.8% more with Zesho Meppo give you any additional opportunities to play NIN in end game content?

Edit: BTW I totally disagree with you that people who has R30 Nyame are only interested in optimizing their group end game setup. Many people who has done most of the content and has most of the stuff search for solo/lowman challenging stuff.

In any endgame content Ninja is included in or you'd want to bring it for, it's likely to be there for DPS (sometimes tanking?). You'll do more overall WSs than MBs (if you even use them at all) so anything that pushes their primary source of damage higher imo would be the likely investment someone would want to make on that job. Different strokes for different folks, but saying "there's a massive increase in MB damage with path C" or "it's disgusting for nuke damage", so you can afford to switch paths on Nyame in exchange for slightly lower WS damage it should be kept in context. I'm not saying it's a dumb idea, just that those two statements on their own are basically meaningless to a majority of players if what you really mean is some super niche lowman scenario.

Don't think i said "only". Anyways, I'm probably one of the people who would optimize for a solo/niche improvement scenario, so I'm not talking wildly here. I'm more interested in it than anything. I've posted plenty of clips and strats on stuff using Ninja in lowman or unconventional scenarios, so it appeals to me a lot. So it's reasonable for me to ask if this kind of shift in gear path would push Ninja significantly up the nuke ladder to be included in more relevant group content, or if its just another one of those "COOL!!" things Ninja can do on their own that rarely gets any use. I really like playing Ninja on everything I possibly can, so I'm curious how much of a bonus these would deal in more endgame settings, I can already envision on my own how much the improvement would be for solo stuff.

Maybe this is context maybe this is derailment...
I've been trying to make my ninja as viable as possible since the original python thread on ninja.

Took my ML45 ninja to a v5 lol Marmorkrebs
Went against my gut instinct to just send it on RDM

Haven't touched oddessy in a while so I am trying learn and progress where I can with what I have

Cor and brd buffs

Tried hybrids for most of the fight To to Teki for fragmentation
The wiki says this boss takes the most from MB and not physical.

The hybrids were doing 5-10k each with a pretty low sc I wanna say 5k
17k Raitons sans with MB gear
A shun did like 8k

But eventually I died forgetting to put up migwari and having the hp down against the move that goes through shadows

So going down with the fight I engaged on Cor and was savage blading with minimal tp 1-2k (+750tpbonus) and hitting 17k faster and more efficiently.

Really makes me wonder if I should have full sent on RDM and if the dmg output for ninja was worth it.

Maybe this restriction is just lax at this level but the disparity just makes me wonder when I can even take this job out.
Perhaps I would just been better savage blading on ninja lol

I mean it's 35mab 5MBII 35mdmg and 15int above next best option, which is other path of Nyame. I can tell you how much of an improvement it is for NIN, but your question is very strange. You basically asking if 22% increase in Ninjutsu magic burst damage will let NIN replace BLM. How would I know. It's a very complex question that goes far beyond just ninjutsu MB damage and your legs options.



Im genuinely curious what is that content? Give me examples please.

Segments, doesn't matter, when hybrid works, they one shot anyway, even with 3% less damage.
1st KI on Ongo? You nuke.
Hybrid mage setup for Sortie? Most damage from nukes.
Some ambuscades maybe? The one with Qutrub you do 99999 anyway and the one with Ironclads it's more important to improve magical damage, because WSs are doing 99999 anyway.

I'm not really using NIN much, so idk what else.

What do you mean? The same way you "know" DNC can replace WAR in a Kalunga V25 clear? The same way you "know" Onion Sword III's potential damage and application without ever having used one in an actual fight. You guys spend a lot of time simming/mathing out theoretical scenarios with expected buffs vs targets. The increase in MB damage is massive, so my follow-up to that is "how would it fare in something like Sortie MB/compared to BLM". How is that question strange, isn't that exactly what you do?


"Any" content. There's a few specific instances you mentioned above that are tailored for NIN, but you can bring NIN to anything you need to deal damage on. The ambuscade examples are the few standouts and are great with NIN, but that's not the only ones you can use them for. My point is that if you're including a NIN or wanting to bring one, it's there to DPS/WS primarily, generally not for nuking. Besides Ongo KI1, I can't think of a single fight where you prioritize bringing NIN specifically for its nuke potential. You mention NIN in Sortie mage setup, but afaik, I haven't heard of a single person including them in that comp (I was the one who brought it up); this is why I am asking how they compare in that kind of comp. You say it would be "most damage from nukes", but AECG takes great hybrid damage, especially with Storms II. You're also not always nuking during objectives. It would be hard to say which one is better (no songs or rolls, but you guys can do your math thing and tell me which is better), again, this is why I am asking where its role in a "nuke" centered event would be. This nuking Path C discussion is similar to the Tanking-NIN one. So many people struggle to find places to use a NIN tank, items like Fudo C/Yagyu/Nagi/Tanking builds get discredited. Same thing here, different context.


The blue one takes extra magic damage, Blade: Yu wrecks it. Idk if C is better than B for that, maybe it is. I can't remember if I used Futae here, but I was hitting capped nukes without any C Nyame. In any case, I ran groups the entire month this was active, and brought along over a dozen NINs. There was only one NIN for the entire month that had an actual MB build on NIN, it ended up being me doing all the nuking parts. My point here is that, while it's a cool tool for some of us NIN enthusiasts, sadly, nuking on NIN is simply not viewed or used as a primary skill for really much of anything, even when there's a meta fight that specifically caters to it (I was told this specific fight was hard on NIN >.>)

I think it would be hard for most people to part with Nyame B for whatever "disgusting" or "massive" increase you get from the very limited role of MBing, just because of how NIN is viewed and used. Its good information to know as a potential increase, but until we can find more ways to incorporate NIN into magical setups (I would love this), we're talking about very limited use case scenario and niche increase. This is coming from a career NIN, but not overboard like Logical xD.

Yes, but it was completely different scenario. DNC was there not to replace WAR as DD, but to support BLU being main DD. Also there is a known sim for physical dps, but there is none for magic dps (only for magic damage). I have no idea what's the dps of BLM in sortie run and it would be a massive time investment to try to calculate it and also include things like -aja impact to party dps. I already said that I would rather try to replace RNG in hybrid magic setup and be there to both SC and MB.
The point is whenever something takes good hybrid damage and you make use of that, it will be doing 99999 if you are buffed and changing r30 Nyame from path B to C wont change anything for those hybrid WSs.
You was asking about mage setup for Sortie. Mage setup would be focusing on magic bursting not hybrid WSs. You would lack both acc and attack in WS gear to make use of Hybrid WS. You could use hybrids in regular melee sortie setup, but :chi is the only one doing good damage on Dhartok, but you would risk doing Distortion with Savage blade and none of the elements available for NIN are good against Triboulex, so it way better to just use Prime katana (I assume if you are career NIN doing Sortie you would have it at stage 3 at least) and instead of risking Distortion, you would make occasional lights with Savage or Black Halo.


I seriously don't care about what's meta or what's not meta. If you are NIN enthusiast, just try new things with it instead of being limited by meta. I would consider meta being important only for something like new Master Trials, where clearing it is a hardcore even with very specific setup and Bumba v25, because that's also just a gimmick fight.


I'm pretty sure none including you will notice a difference between Nyame path B and Relic+3 for Zasho Meppo or whatever else physical WS you would use it for and 3% on hybrids would also be something you wouldn't miss at all because it will still be doing 99999 when you are buffed or you would do it on something like segments C, where even below 99999 they will overkill anyway.

Sorry to ask a probably silly question. Is there like a central node these days for current ninja gearsets? curious what would be needed. especially what jse is worth upgrading. Thank you in advance!

Questions are ment to be asked.
This has a lot of end end game stuff
https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/All_Jobs_Gear_Sets/Ninja
Not all of them will include a engaged set
Or magic burst set like this one

Most of the job pages have guides some are outdated so consider this when reading
https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/Ninja

I realize this is a bit old (hey I was away on vacation), but thought it was worth mentioning...

I don't agree with the premise that whenever hybrids are good, they are hitting 99999, and that's a vital assumption for Simon's reasoning to work. It is very frequent for me to run into situations where hybrids are my best damage WS on NIN, but they aren't capped damage - even in something sort of low key like Sortie with typical BRD+COR buffs, I might be doing ~70k average with hybrids, or less on 4th floor Sheol C. Or in Limbus, with mobs getting more DT, it's highly likely to run into situations where hybrids are NOT hitting 99999 but are still your best option.

For any situations where you actually are seeing very consistent capped damage with Chi/Teki/To, then I see Simon's point. I just don't often see that in real situations. It is also very rare that I'm ever relying on NIN nuke damage. Therefore, I would rather keep the better hybrid WS damage piece (and WSD piece for that slot for every job). I can live with using nuke pieces that are merely second-best to Nyame C. Maybe my decision would be different if I was someone who played... IDK, BLM SCH NIN as my priority jobs, and thought I'd get enough out of a C piece to make it worth trying. That's not my situation though, so I'm happy to stick with B path Nyame.

NIN AF+4 with DW is really dumb. They should make the DW+5 on legs be TA+5%. Head could be DA+10% or PDL+10% but anything is more useful than DW.