The Sealed Dagger: A Ninja Guide

can swap to goading belt and only lose 1 STP

Are you sure about this? I thought native MA procs occur before the unique GKT procs? The GKT TA is not actual "Triple Attack", it's a non-STP triple hit. I was under the impression that you could still Double or Triple Attack normally from gear, but then you can also get a "double" or "triple" attack proc from the GKT, based on STP. does 100/200 STP completely block normal DA/TA from procing?

The point you made about wasting a trait is true of Tatenashi's Zanshin, though. so ryuo feet are useless outside of the stp, which malignance is better.

Neither was mine but after looking at it some more, the better set is just 4/5 malignance, ryuo+1 head. With crepuscular earring and double chirich+1 using kentarch+1 (max unity), you cap haste, get good ranged accuracy for daken, and end up at +126 STP from gear and trait. Also no wasted TA from Sam Roll if Simon's comment is true.

Even assuming you can proc normal TA before TA from GKT, its wasted anyway, since you have 100%TA with that GKT at 200sTP. So if you doesn't proc TA from gear you always proc at least TA from GKT. Assuming that's true, above 200sTP you would also block possible QA from GKT with TA from gear, which is not only wasting it, but even crippling GKT with it.


Yeah sorry, I overlook that. Like Nariont said, it's easy to fix with Goading and only lose 1sTP or switch to Malignance leg and lose 2sTP but get even more defensive value and racc.

Not really. You get 127TP/swing from a GKT-proc-MA. I also believe you get a fixed Daken TP as well. A normal MA gives you standard TP with your STP added in, including for the Daken proc on that round. So a native TA proc (with or without Daken) is always going to be higher returned TP than a GKT TA (with or without Daken). It's not wasted, as you say, it's better in a sense. The only reason you say it's "Wasted" is because the native TA is adding nothing until it procs, while the GKT TA is always active assuming 200 STP. But that's more supplemental TA than "wasted" TA IMO.

This all assumes you can do MA proc before GKT proc when at 100/200 stp. I assumed you could, based on a comment Jakey made previously about priority of MA with this GKT.

The Hachi MA is not normal QA/TA/DA and it procs after and can be blocked by normal QA/TA/DA, the store tp is only lost when the Hachi MA goes off but it is lost for entire round so it effects daken as well.

I know the first thing most people think of is just stacking store tp the idea of getting 1 ta or 1 qa per stp sounds great with Hachi and that definitely helps white damage but as I'm usually only using it for it's ws's I've been playing around with a very different take on it focused instead on tp gain.

There is an interesting effect below 100 store tp with Hachi, ignoring daken and other MA for a second at 50 store tp where you would normally have aprox 1.5 times your base tp gain with a normal weapon with Hachi you actually have aprox 1.75 times the base tp gain because 50% of the time you have a double attack with 0 store tp and 50% of the time you have a single attack with 50 store tp, so .5*(2*1)+.5*(1*1.5)=1.75 of course theres some flooring for exact tp amounts with the weapon and other effects to consider but trying to keep things simple here. This means that the first 50 store tp ends up being more valuable than normal but 50-100 store tp is less valuable than normal. So I use a high MA build aiming for 50 store tp.

While this effect is interesting and is what I base my builds around, if you are receiving sam roll it is important to note that while you may be gaining less tp on average per point of store tp than normal each point is still a positive increase in tp gain and a positive increase in white damage so there are limits to how much I would cut

This is what I've been playing with
ItemSet 373285

Thx for explaining, I was going with bg wiki description, which I guess should be changed. If it works like you say, then its not DA,TA,QA etc. but simply occasionally attack 2/3/4 times and store TP only doesn't work for those attacks and works not only for single attacks, but also MA proc, that can happen before this special OAx.

I'm not familiar with Hachimonji's effect either. The BG Wiki description does imply that Hachimonji simply adds to your existing multi-attack rates. From Jakey's description it sounds more like Hachimonjis is a special "occasionally attacks X times":

Quad > Triple > Double > Hachimonji_Quad > Hachimonji_Triple > Hachimonji_Double > Normal_Single

with normal attacks getting full Store TP bonus and Hachimonji attacks getting 0 Store TP.

I tried to visualize the effect of Hachimonji on average TP gain per attack round versus total Store TP in Python by running through 10000 TP rounds per STP value. Assuming no extra multi-attack in your TP set (and ignoring Daken):


The black points represent TP gain with Hachimonji, while the red line shows what is expected with a Hachimonji-like weapon (127 base TP per swing), but without Hachimonji procs. The bottom plot simply shows the difference between the two. We can clearly see the feature Jakey was mentioning that peaks around 50 STP. Store TP is still worth "more than normal" until reaching 100, but the Hachimonji bonus is worth its highest at 50 STP. After 100 STP the Hachimonji procs do not affect TP gain in any noticeable way.

However, if we start adding multi-attack to our other gear slots, the effect of Hachimonji is diminished:
This figure shows three different models for external Double Attack and Triple Attack. The blue data is with no extra multi-attack (the same as the first figure. The orange data assumes no extra multi-attack from gear, but +12% Double Attack from Warrior subjob. The green data is using the multi-attack present in the set Jakey posted: DA=28, TA=27.

Let me know if I've done something incorrectly so I can fix it and better understand how Hachimonji functions.

Yup those look just like the graphs I made a while back when I looked into it and ya the more QA/TA/DA you run the closer to "normal" your tp gets but also usually the less store tp you run.

I would note that after 100 store tp Hachi actually does hurt tp gain compared to normal if you take daken into account and the extent to which it is hurt is based on how many QA/TA/DA you have because that's how often you get to let a daken have store tp or not.

I wanted some decent regen in Idle:

ItemSet 385255

+20 Regen, HP+1128, Def+858, Vit+199, Agi+228, 47%-DT( 50% While Running w/ NIN boots or Danzo and swapping in D.Ring (-55 hp, -4 mdb, -4 enmity aswell as loss of foot stats or w/e)), Mag Eva+664, Eva+573, MDB+31 (is that good?), Enmity +32......

Acc+246, DEX 131, lolAttack+148, STR 149, MND+141, INT+142, CHR+138

Andartia's would be regen 5, hp 60, mag eva/evasion 30, enmity +10.

Thoughts?

What is the purpose of this set specifically? It says Idle, but has a comment about movement speed, which is slightly confusing since you're not being hit (so all of the defensive stats are irrelevant).

started as max HP+regen, but standing idle while not engaged, doesn't mean you aren't nessicarily in a battle that you wont miss defense stats.

would be a pretty mean kiting set also, while using D'ring for max DT.

rest of the stats just kinda fell into place. NOt max max regen, but biggest 3 NIN can equip.

The only fight I can recall where I did this was Iron Giant Dullahan, tanking both red and blue for as long as possible with Yonin. I just used Mpaca pieces instead of Nyame for Killer effects, and just prioritized HP. Not sure there's many situations you'd idle tank and not engage. If you are, don't see any reason for Kannagi unless you're looking for evasion? Would MH Fudo C instead for the HP and tanking piece with Utsusemi.

good to know, i have almost all this stuff at various upgrade stages, kannagi is my go to weapon, so just factoring that, i doubt ill ever get my hands on fudo, but good call for a max max set.

P.S. that set w/ a little adjust is good for engaged too. no reason it isnt, aside from crap damage potential.

Last night I was sorting through some subjob options and trying to find info on various spells hate factor. Noticed there isn't any data for sleep, bind, gravity, and a few others, wondering if there is any data on these spells as far as hate generation is concerned.

I know actually landing some of these spells or expecting them to last is not in the realm of reality as a sub job, but wondering about if it can hold attention at all.

I suppose I can try some basic attempts at testing these mystery spells. But hoping there may be more concrete data that is floating around but hasn't made it to wiki yet.

Sleep and Sleep II's enmity are on BG wiki.

More than likely the debuff spells are all going to be 300~ VE/1 CE to keep in line with their "nerf" to rdm and nin/drk tanking back in the day.

Never knew aspir had 320 CE attached to it though if bgwiki is accurate, that's not bad

What does a NIN PDL Savage Blade set look like? Drop Epaminondas for Sroda, Mpaca legs over Nyame?

Ok misspoke about sleep, but quite a few have a ? on them, was mainly what I was wondering about.

and it's "free" and super cooldown..... Nice input, thanks Nari.

Just want to say, finally a reason to wear empy body! Swear to God, they probably had to think really hard about putting that DT on there.

Insert Jason Bateman's "I don't know what I expected" gif.

ItemSet 385997
\_('- ')_/

This is on the empyrean feet. Typo or feature change?

DEF:73 HP+15 STR+14 DEX+26 VIT+12 AGI+39 MND+12 CHR+30 Evasion+80 Magic Evasion+75 "Magic Def. Bonus"+5 Haste+5% "Tactical Parry"+20 "Utsusemi"+1 Set: Augments "Dual Wield"


DEF:93 HP+35 STR+22 DEX+34 VIT+18 AGI+49 MND+17 CHR+35 Accuracy+50 Attack+50 Ranged Accuracy+50 Magic Accuracy+50 Evasion+110 Magic Evasion+125 "Magic Def. Bonus"+8 Haste+5% "Critical Parry"+23 "Utsusemi"+1 Weapon skill damage +8% Set: Augments "Dual Wield"

same effect, just typo/translation error

Wish they had put any attack on AF+3 head.and/or ANY acc....

I don't know. Someone know new optimal set with for MB with Futae hands? I was thinking you might be able to drop Nyame body (if not path C) for Samnuha Coat for 8 MBB. You lose a lot of INT and a little magic accuracy, but you get slightly higher MAB and a big chunk of II

MBI
10-Kunimitsu
10-Warder +1 R15
10-Hattori Tekko +2
6-Nyame flanchard
5-Static earring
-----------------
41

MBBII
5-Mujin Band
8-Samnuha Coat
---------------
13

53 Total MBB


Thinking Static earring is the weak link overall, but you only have Crematio for that slot. Anyone know what's better for MBs between those 2 ear slots and 2 bodies (Crematio vs Static (to cap MB1) and Samnuha vs Nyame)? Nyame also more defensive, but just wondering if Samnuha body now has a place.

I checked the new WS and nuking sets on August 10th, including all of the new gear released with the August update (and Sroda Ring which I had not added yet). My Python thread had been updated to reflect the changes, with the text updated for changes to the nuking sets with Futae.

In summary:

• Free nukes did not change. Swap in Hattori Tekko +2 if using Futae.

• Magic bursts without Futae did not change.

• Magic bursts with Futae use Hattori Tekko +2 (+5 MBB over Nyame). The extra "Magic Burst damage +10" allows you to swap Warder's Charm +1 R15 for Sibyl Scarf (-10 MBB) and Crematio Earring for Static Earring (+5 MBB).

Samnuha Coat with max augments does not show up until I remove both Nyame Mail and Gyve Doublet as potential options.

Edit:
The changes with Futae were mentioned in my Python thread's main text, which is easy to miss if you're only skimming for item sets. I've just now added a fourth item set to the nuking section which simply shows the swaps to use with Futae for free nukes and bursts. This should make finding the information easier.

That's so depressing.
Guess Hattori Tekko +2 would've need some Mab to be a viable option even out of Futae.

I dunno, Ninja Empy+2 so far is a big disappointment for me. There's some good stats here and there but on the wrong pieces :-(