The Sealed Dagger: A Ninja Guide

the old Zunin+2 DA bonus was applied onl when behind, not simply when Innin was up, it requires both conditions.
I assume the reforged +1 is the same and the +3 will likely be the same unless SE decides to do an overall tweak to Innin.
I would even accept a compromise like widening the range at which you're considered "behind" for Innin, but noooope, not gonna happen.

I dont want to be rude, but this video has some really basic math mistakes (or rather, you dont know how its calculated?). Dont have time to break it down now, will do it later.

I can seem to confirm this. I couldn't find any info online confirming it and I hadn't really used the piece before since it was a such a niche piece but in my parser testing it was clear it wasn't getting as many multi hits as I was calculating. It was always averaging in the 1.90-2.00 range instead of 2.01. It's also been pointed out that the DW would further reduce your tp gain making this really a piece only going for that multihit build setup over everything else. As I discover in the video, there really is very little use for this set and if you do use it... I'd prolly decide to swap in an Adhemar head for this anyway since this is so darn Niche.

Yep I mentioned that in the comments (Im bartekswt on youtube), but there is another mistake in calculation (people do that mistake quite often tbh) that I will try to explain later that will help you in future guides and theorycrafting sets.

Ok finally have some free time.

So the mistake I was talking about is how you calculate ma rate on items and eventually on whole set.

While in the void 5%da is how you describe it "5 more swings per 100 rounds", its not 5 more swings anymore in set with 30% Triple Attack. Because of priority of multiattack proc being quadruple > triple > double having any QA will devalued TA and DA and having TA will further devalued DA. So you cant simply sum MA rate from each item as total ma rate of the set.

Imagine extreme example of having 100% TA. Any DA in gear then will be simply useless, because it will never proc in tp round.

That fact pretty much changes numbers for every tp set you posted in video.

Your tanking set has 84.4 ma rate not 93
Your multihit build set has 89 ma rate not 101
Your Best In Slot TP set has 78.5 ma rate not 84

This changes quite a lot because for example multihit build only has 13.4% higher ma rate than best in slot, instead of 20% you got by simply adding ma rate from each item.

It also has an impact on comparing items in specific slot. Im not gonna go into details, because im on phone and im already tired of writing all this, but for example brutal earring wont be as effective as you think in build with high TA rate and low stp. Its maybe still bis but its way closer to some other earring than you think. Telos is probably in the same league and assuming acc is not a problem Dedition might actually be better (maybe I will try to math it later).

Great job on the video work. Might have wanted to date it, as things change with the wind.

Interesting. Yes this does help. I didn't know there was an order to Multiattack stat execution and I was just thinking of it in simple terms of straight added swings. Indeed with the amount of triple attack gear in the set it definitely devalues the Double Attack. I was also noticing this in my parser results that in general my Multi attacks in my parser were .5-1 lower then what I was expecting in the multihit set which goes along with the math you mention. The others two sets were a little lower then I was expecting as well but only .3-.6 off. The math you give now explains those results.

This also further explains why my adding of Double Attack to the cape didn't have the benefit I was expecting... as the Store TP cape beat it handily.

Thanks, this will definitely come into play again when I go over my DW20 and DW40 sets.

The spreadsheet will calculate the average hits for you should you be curious. There's two summary fields for each set on the Data page, B255 and 256, and C255 and 256.

The distribution calculations are in the Melee page, where each table calculates the probability of that particular multi-hit's chances, and then constructs (based on acc) the hit tables.

Melee H18 for Set 1 Hand 1, and F33 for Set 1 Hand 2. The others for set 2 are below.

This is what I was going to comment on about the diminishing returns of the sets you posted. Which is why I singled out the Zukin in particular. There was no way in hell that piece could be better than the other 2, and it's not "1 more attack per 100 round", but you later corrected your original preference so I didn't go into it. Also, the primary reason why DA+10% cape is not superior to the STP+10 cape is for 2 basic reasons: TA (which simon elocuted well enough) devalues the DA, and because STP procs on every single hit, where DA (especially with diminishing returns from such a high TA value) does not (as you just mentioned).

Not so much of a huge mistake as it was just a minor flaw, because the set that should have won did in the end. And one of the more fundamental points you expressed in your video was that there was not much of a difference between each of the 3 sets, which is something I agree with for a lot of jobs. People gripe about BIS BIS BIS for every single piece and we're really talking a difference in a few dps, which may or may not change depending on a lot of things (acc, att, debuffs etc). But the larger point I hope people gain from that is that you can use pieces from each of the relevant sets and see fairly similar results. Which is why most people just advocate rocking the more defensive set, since it will cover both areas effectively.

Thanks for all the tips and information Gentlemen. Hope to do a better job on the next ones and will note what we've discussed here in the top pinned comment in the video. This is also where I will post changes to the sets that may come out until I get around to making an updated video.

According to your weapon delays the extra store TP would have not given you a 7 hit build and just enough for a 8 hit (since it required 37 stp)...or is this even important anymore? I was away for 4 years and noticed no one cares about counting how much store TP it takes to get to the next tier anymore. Also I thought a 6-hit build is where it's at. I believe you can get to a six hit quite easily if your offhand was higher delay weapon...can you do some comparisons for us regarding that...I would love to see the results. Here is my 6 hit and I still don't have some omen rings/earring and can't afford yet a Nodowa +2 so I made due. ItemSet 372418

For me personally xhit build on job with a lot of multiattack and with ws that scale with tp is kinda pointless. The exception being WAR with 100%DA. Imo you should just go for highest dps and that might very iften mean store tp between xhits in favor of multiattack.

Oh man, seeing that bow in a NIN tp set made me cringe so hard just now

Explain cause from what I have read here Daken is kinda meh anyways...especially if you got a lot of multi-hits and it is subject to the 8 hit cap ..so it does not proc most of the time and never on QAs. Also this gives me a nice boost in stats plus I"m able to solo dark and light for busting preferences. So please tell me how this makes you cringe again?

Same here TBH lol. I just picked ninja back up as a side project and some people seem to be confused about the store tp thing or offhands. Xhit builds aren't that great on ninja tbh. Personally Im with Simon on the xhit builds you have so much multiattack making a higher delay offhand would hurt you. If you look at the sets put on front page you have 42 STP without weapons (if im looking at it right) John your six hit is giving up alot of stuff just to get that acc and better stats for offhand with kanaria.

You are mistaken. Daken, with all of the relevant gear can reach 79% proc rate. Ninja does not have access to much QA gear (probably 3 pieces and it is extremely low amounts, one being a weapon that is trash), and it is doubly rare to have a QA proc on both swings to reach the 8-hit cap. So there are so few instances where a Daken proc will not occur. Daken is not meh at all, it's literally an extra hit per round most of the time. Even with no gear and just JPs, it will proc on over half of your TP rounds and is a large part of a NINs arsenal for TP gain. There is no reason why you wouldn't use a shuriken to proc Daken. The bow is used as a macc swap to land debuffs, you wouldn't tp in that.

I got 51 STP (50 is what I needed for 6 hit) Can you expand a little bit on the "alot" of stuff I'm giving up...cause from my calculations only like 10 accuracy and 10 attack which seems minimal to the gains?

79% proc rate? Well that I have not heard so I had to do some bit of research just now and what I was reading was from 2017 but after a closer look some of the guys disd say "Shuriken Tosses have the advantage of larger TP return compared to melee hits" Then I saw some charts showing 25% increase in melee damage AND Daken throws had a significant accuracy bonus ...so I have to admit you are quite right and I'm glad I asked...though I doubt I'll be wearing Daken + gear on TP sets though I think 40% proc rate is good enough...see I'm from oldschool knowledge and Daken is after my time I'm only been on and off in this game for the last couple of years so forgive my ignorance.

welp, im out. langly just forehead palmed. we shitting up his thread

The high tier set under • Capped Magical/JA Haste Received (~1DW In Gear To Reach Cap) has 50 STP ...IDK man looks like he was gunning for a 6-hit.

better get it together. you asked for help, you better tow the line buddy.

I guess some people are here just to troll rather than be helpful and productive in making better players...I for one am not afraid to show my mistakes it's part of learning how to do it right...when I am wrong I'm happy to have learned ...cause if I was right all the time then that's an example of a delusional person. At least I have the confidence to admit when I am wrong.

Just jokes. Front page has the majority of what you need. 99% up to date with some modern stuff like malignance or UNM R15 possible left off of some sets. But there's a good place to start for TP sets. Also, Logical (the guy who posted the most recent video above) has some good Ninja videos that would help catch you up to speed, if you want to watch his series.

Yer I get it... can't be sensitive little *** in these forums that's for sure best to learn to take criticism. anyways, it was Logicals vid that I was here for....the guide seems a bit dated though you can tell he keeps up some things to date. I still need lots more gear to hunt down and most are very expensive or tough without a reliable LS. I don't even have a better offhand right now ...my Kana has +20 DMG +agi +acc+att and it's hard to say goodbye to lol. I have a level 85 Kannagi I'm working on and hopefully an Aeonic soon so I will be having to change up a few things when I get better stuff. But thanks for the advice it's really helpful when there ain't much places to go to like the old days. Oh another quick question...why not the fotia neck and belt for Metsu?

Because Fotia is not 10% wsd. Its +0.1 ftp and for metsu thats less than 2% increase.


You know +2 neck is the most important Daken piece right?

Also Daken is super important for tp gain. Its pretty much the same as follow up attack, except its even better because afaik daken hit gives more tp than hit with you katana.

Got bored so here I am building a Kannagi to add to my arsenal of shenanigans. Attempting to maximize AM3 white damage, so I'm trying to understand what has the most benefit in the hands slot.

Adhemar+1 Path B
Ryuo+1 Path D
Malignance

TA, Crit dmg, or PDL would benefit the setup best.

ItemSet 372428

Oh man thanks for that info ....I guess its farmin' time...ya

happo+1