The Sealed Dagger: A Ninja Guide

Just trying to find max dmg for weaponskill. Everyone points to ten

Ahhh

Thanks everyone, sabermethod was best, other one gave me double darkness

You can use Blade: Ku instead of Rin. Hi's probably better than Ten if your ratio is meh.



Then you didn't do what he said.

If you ask me no you shouldn't remove WSD; you should simply use a different WS unless you have a lot of att buffs.
Don't really need to be attack capped for Ten to shine, but you need to be somewhat close to there.

Shun instead is a WS that gives an attack multiplier, so it tipically performs better than other WSs when you're starving for attack.

Lol, the guide assumes capped pDIF and capped accuracy.

If you think it takes that much support to get there, then "lol" again.

If you want 'tiers' for 3.0 pDIF, 2.0 pDIF, 1.0 pDIF, 50% acc, 75% acc, 90% acc, negative fSTR, capped fSTR, then you're looking in the wrong spot. That's all going to be derivative. I cannot and will not create sets for every person/playstyle/setup you may have. Sorry. *shrugs*

If you assume it's not hyberbolic then lol even harder

With you, I never know what to assume.

> 2 Geo

But no, for real, you guys assume you cap attack on literally everything in the game 100% of the time.

Regular players don't understand this and/or know this. They assume attack is worthless all the time.

I personally think it's silly to assume capped buffs on a job like ninja, and you can get all defensive about it if you want.

What would you consider is the 'norm' for creating gearsets?

realistic situations you'd use nin in, which tends to be more focused on smaller group compositions. outside of CP mobs, don't think I've ever been capped on attack on ninja.

Would you agree that everyone's 'realistic situations' may differ?

If I can find the parse SS High buffs (High being Chaos/2-3mins+honor/fury/frailty/diaIII

Metsu:18-26k
Shun:13-18k
Ten: 14-27k
Kamu:99,999

Low Buffs(low being 2mins or dunna900 fury +/- Soy Ramen)
Metsu: 8-12k
Shun:8-13k
Ten:14-16k
All Tens are being done at 1800-2500TP, Metsu @1000TP Shun @ w/e tp

Ten will be the best one if youre using it w/ Aeonic at 1250-2kTP ish I guess but its all going to depend on what rema if youre using a rema. Metsu chains w/ itself and shun so always getting extra damage Vs just doing Ten after x TP wall
Shun like Lang said is baller at low attack buffs, but these are just my personal numbers, my Shuns are all over the place sometimes whereas I find Metsu to be consistant all the time.
Plus Kikoku giving 60 attack then +10% attack from AM

I just realized I didnt put Blade:Hi, but its roughly the same as Shun for me, with lower buffs it seems to be the weakest to me

sure, but most people aren't going to use NIN in an ideal scenario with multiple buffers when they can use a stronger job.

I get that job switching is a thing. I'm just attempting to explain my perspective on the choices I present in the guide. The guide is probably not a good guide for a ninja who only takes it to CP'ing.

If there are better ways to present ninja gear choices, without getting extremely granular, I'm all for adjusting the listing.

As for now, I guess the guide only targets those who would want to bring Ninja to an event with support and hope to keep up with others.

I kinda agree with Langly in not taking into consideration Accuracy.
That's the first thing that usually gets capped, rightfully so.

For attack it's a bit different. It comes after Acc in a tier list of importance, and sometimes you're simply nowhere close to being attack capped.
I wouldn't claim to say this is such a "rare" scenario.
To be fair, unless you're zerging with mules buffing then dropping and/or using Bolster Idris GEO, you're not gonna be attack capped on the majority of content that matters.
So again while I agree in keeping Accuracy out of the equation, Attack should play a role when creating sets.


Still, Langly cannot realistically create 2000 different sets for each different WS, that's just not plausible.
We could simplify things into 3 representative levels though:
1) No buffs at all
2) Midbuffs (you got some buffs, att included) but you're at best around midway through the road to get attcapped
3) Att capped.

I bet given this perspective a lot of WS sets would be much different.

I mean it's not really much different to what we do with Haste and Dual Wield. Most guides have 3-4 different sets according to the Haste levels.

I propose 2 or max 3 sets for WS.

I appreciate the input Sechs.

I went down this road multiple times in the beginning. What target? Something defensive but EM iLevel? What kind of target? A THF mob? A PLD mob?

I never found anything that I could leave there and be happy with it. So I avoided the two things that are very external. Attack and accuracy. With so many ways to apply defense down and buff acc/debuff evasion, I merely tended toward the upper end of the spectrum. I don't want anyone to misunderstand me, I'm not being defensive. I'm just trying my best to explain where I'm coming from.

I absolutely agree with you about possibility vs. efficiency. probably 98% of mobs are more efficiently and more importantly RELIABLY done with a non-ninja tank.

Personally I have not tanked any tier four (HELM) mobs in Jima. I have tanked some HELMs in Zitah and Ruann. NIN can solo at least one AA and is a particularly good tank for Genbu. I probably wouldn't even want to attempt most of the Jima HELMS. T3's ehhhhh ok (b/c I've done at least one off the top of my head)... but not the HELMS. Most of them have a ***ton of adds, and yes I've been in groups where a PUP tank was used. I've even been in a group where a BLM super-tanked the Albumen fight. If I had to try one as NIN it'd probably be Vinipata, but only if one was just trying to get more out of the game.

Speaking of getting more out of the game. Low-manning and unconventional groups of talented players trying to accomplish things without the traditional and ideal setups were one of the most fun aspects of the game. I was main tank for most of Omen from the get-go and it was a blast.

As far as PUP goes - as I said even though they struggle with groups, it's for different reasons. NIN and PUP are completely different jobs. For starters, if your Puppet goes down the PUP is still alive. You can heal the puppet. The puppet can take damage pretty well and is immune to most traditional statuses and triggers on/from bosses. Ninja is not these things. Ninja does not do these things. Even with PDT or MDT Ninja does not take damage well. Ninja is a glass-cannon DWer with low HP. To make it worse, once you get hit, you're likely to keep getting hit for substantial dmg for a minute. You need a quality healer WHO PAYS ATTENTION (sadly a rarity these days)...and that's IF you brought a healer for your NIN-tank. On Genbu we typically just abandoned a WHM completely. IMO opinion PUP struggles on multiple mobs b/c they're limited w/enmity generation. NIN isn't as hard-luck when it comes to enmity (though certainly not as gifted as PLD or RUN), but the issue is just taking (or trying to avoid) DMG from multiple sources. It's easy to get overwhelmed, and particularly on high-end mobs like the Jima HELMs, it's not worth the risk.

P.S. I did pick up the hate on Erinys once when our RUN went down. We didn't win b/c our RUN died due to heal fails in the first place, but looking back it doesn't seem impossible.

I'm not really sure multiple WS sets are really necessary.

1. The guide is largely for ideal and common situations anyway.
2. I DID bring ninja to everything I could b/c I liked it - ideal setup or not

3. I think more importantly WS's (at least for NIN) depend on your gear and knowing your situation. Obviously Heishi or no, spamming SHUN may not be so hot regardless of your pdif/attack if you need darkness or umbra. Unless light SC's were the goal, I found Ten (w/Heishi) or Hi were my strongest performers. Especially if you're not attack capped, Hi can really shine (particularly over time). Naturally if you have Kikoku you'll want to lean more toward Metsu, and that of course favors a more SHUN like build.

This changes things a bunch. Also, sorry I did not want to cause a argument I am just trying to get top performance from my nin. My tens are only hitting about 10k with that set on dyna mobs. Granted I only have brd for buffs in party. Would I see a stellar performance increase from the sup3 pieces that are in the guide before I drop 100mil on my server?

BTW I am using aeonic I have not made the relic but am thinking about it.

"Stellar" No. Again those sets are attack capped. You are not capping attack. and going form what ever you're using to BIS is never "stellar" it's mediocre at best, you have to be willing to pay for mediocre improvements.

The game consists of <1% gains, put 14(no main and ranged) of them together and you might see something slightly better than mediocre.

To be honest it sounds like you'd be better off just doing Blade: Shun. Again I dont really see numbers that warrant its use over metsu for me w/ kikoku unless i have every buff in the game.

And it would do good to have those for shun but have to think of why those pieces are good to begin with for blade shun or metsu or w/e. Once you get generally why this type of gear is better for this ws you can actually make good choices based on your needs for what buffs you normally have

Sorry I don't use gearswap. Is this supposed to be written like this, or is it supposed to say 250?


The TP heavily modifies the ws, so if this is spelled incorrectly, you're cheating yourself of the earring's bonus. If not, disregard.

Also, I don't seriously see a problem with your gear or Tens. I have pretty much what your set shows, and it's probably within that range when I'm not buffed a bunch, give or take some. What TP are you using the WS at? I feel like NIN ws are always going to be on the weaker side when not optimal buffs, when compared to something like THF or WAR or SAM. Certainly a chaos roll and geo would help out a ton. I normally try to not come NIN to anything where I know I will not be supported buff wise, since it will already fall behind a bit even when buffed.

right_ear={ name="Moonshade Earring", augments={'Attack+4','TP Bonus +25',}},

"+25" is correct.

The thing is though, for NIN in particular, your strategy should generally be to change WS choice rather than to change your gear to account for uncapped attack.

Blade: To
Blade: Tekki
Blade: Chi

Got all of them to do 25~40K damage consistently, their the Jinpu's of Ninja and super broken.

Tp bonus, wsd, mab in that order?

For Hi, Innin also becomes a really important consideration that is not relevant for the other significant WS. Hi will differ by weapon too:

Heishi: Hi is not likely going to beat Ten with Heishi regardless of buffs.

Kannagi: Hi is almost always the best WS unless you just need a different SC property.

Everything else: Hi is WAY better than it was not all that long ago thanks to gear, and I think it actually warrants a bit of a closer look with a more modern set. I was screwing around the other day with Kikoku and had Hi BEATING my Metsu/Shun/Ten.

A current high end Hi set looks something like:
ItemSet 356506
Note: Can swap body for Mummu+2 if no Ken+1 body

I've also been finding Kannagi/Hi often spreadsheeting as the best overall NIN DPS option (over the "default" Heishi/Ten assumption) for a wide range of not all that unlikely buff/target scenarios - especially if not super-buffed, as is often the case in practice for NIN.

It does somewhat rely on being able to use Innin, but that's not exactly a crazy assumption. Hi is less of a WS liability now than it has been in the semi-recent past, and all the killer crit gear we have is well suited to focusing on Kannagi AM3 crit procs to stomp everything else from a white damage perspective.

EDIT 5/14: included Ternion+1
Low delay offhands work best: Taka (ideal), Ternion Dagger +1 (almost as good as Taka unless you need a lot of acc), and Achiuchikapu are nice offhand choices.

While Taka is ideal, Ternion +1 is also really good and will come extremely close as long as the ~50 lower offhand accuracy isn't a problem. Tern+1 should outperform Achiu and come very close to Taka - Achiu prob won't beat it unless you're extremely acc deficient, at which point it's likely a Shigi would beat both anyway.

I had kinda dismissed Achiu in the past, as it seems to be somewhat limited to this scenario, but it's still one of the top choices to pair with Kannagi and I've found it beating all manner of high end Kanaria, capped Ochus, etc.

My current default Kannagi TP set (which I think is pretty much the best in most buff scenarios) looks like this:
ItemSet 358979
(I actually lack the Taka for now, so using Ternion+1 as what I've found to be the next best option - but including Taka for the people who might just glance at the set to find "best" Kannagi TP gear)

I was a bit inspired to take a harder look at this from a combination of finding Empy crit builds on other jobs fun and effective, and more accessible HQ Kendatsuba gear finally showing up on my server as we've gained players with the crafting shields.


Plus, without Shun having Aeonic SC properties, it tends to be the case for me that Metsu fits way better into most SC situations and results in better overall DPS when you account for the extra SC damage.

I do still regularly use Shun with Kikoku for a self-Light though (Shun -> Metsu)


There's something to this, especially if you can take advantage of Heishi TP Bonus and any magical buffs. I was doing a 3-step SC the other day with Chi and magic buffs for a MB, and it really was pretty damn impressive. And my hybrid/MAB WS set is solid (with several COR/RNG WSD+MAB pieces) but far from perfect.