How Do You Feel About Windower?

you heard the man, lay off the profanity you animals. Any idiot can swear like a drunk sailor stuck on land, but have some f*cking dignity.

That's right. The only thing I really have against Windower at the moment is that, apparently, a plug in can find Mog Tablets, which get you a Kupofried ring, which can make leveling so much more bearable. All in all, I'm butthurt at that, because I could -really- use the Kupofriend's Ring.
Even if one ring is given per person, 50% of people use this, it will take how many weeks before you even had a solid chance, on average, of actiually getting a mog tablet pop? Let's say there are a thousand people in your server. I know they are much bigger than this, but bear with me.
That's 500, if 50% use Windower.
11 are given out per conquest period/week.
say, one person who didn't use windower got it by random chance, and the other 10 were all by people who can find it on their handy plug in.
five weeks pass, fifty of them got it.
Almost a year passes? 500. If 50% use windower, you'd have a snowball's chance in hell to ever even SEE a mog tablet without that plug in, yet alone get the ring. In that time, most people can get more than a few jobs to 75 anyway. 150 charges of an emperor band, that's 450000 EXP they will get, should they use their emperor band 3 times a week, charge it, and go party some more, from the band alone, for the entirety of those 50 weeks it would take.
This is a long time.
If, however, this plug in doesn't pick up Mog tablets, then I wrote this entire thing for nothing, and now we're back to the problem with people who use Windower thinking they're so much better than people who either do not or cannot.
Sort of like people born with a silver spoon in their mouth compared to people who actually have to...work to get something, which isn't technically Windower's fault, but rather society.
EDIT: Fixed some stuff.

I won't argue that FFXIAH gives an unfair advantage, as it does, but there are subtle differences between the two. FFXIAH is client-side independent from FFXI, having an account on FFXIAH cannot get you banned in-game. Having Windower can.

Being in FFXIAH doesn't necessarily mean you're being unethical. Frankly, FFXIAH is nice, but I don't bother even looking up prices. I don't AH much, and when I do FFXIAH really has no say in the matter, I deal directly in game. I come to FFXIAH for the community, and for reading at work.

So in a sense, using a metaphor, I "downloaded" windower, but I'm not even using it.

im going to find you and you will pay.

I don't believe having Windower is unethical, or using windower is unethical. I don't care if you need or want recast times to be readily available without hitting a button or combinations of buttons to see them. Your choice, it's an arbitrary difference. It's not even windower, though, it's a plug in FOR windower, which I suppose isn't windower's fault, either, that I'm having a fit about.

I havent heard of this Mog Tablet plugin, but if there is one, then I agree with you in that it absolutely shouldn't be allowed. If windower users want to continue to play the "but we're not doing anything you cant do yourself" card then plugins like this shouldnt be allowed and people should take responsibility. But of course, thats if there is even such a plugin, which last I knew, there wasnt.

There are a few nice things i use windower for:
party TP
distance (to stay out of range / in range of AoE's, mostly important for salvage)
recast (i still have /recast on all my macros and a /echo on other things cuz i filter out almost EVERYTHING to make my chat log scroll somewhat reasonably)
blinkmenot (i get sick of myself blinking in combat i'd rather not do it, this lets me use gear changes w/o that problem, and saves alot of lives when i'm on whm)
plasticsurgion (this lets me change my face/race, i've played a Hume-F for 6 years been playing a Mithra for a while and i kinda like the change, sure i need to turn it off if i'm going to use my Ocean Rope on Blm but it doesn't hurt anyone else)
silence (saves chat spam from gear changes)
lightluggage (SE put this in, just windower version works better)
statustimer (I use this to manually guage xp/hr by how long i've had buffs on, namely protect & reraise, and reminds me when to recast some party buffs)

and let's not forget:
alias, gear swaps & ALT-Tab

I've been a hobby programmer for a few years, and the alias system lets me create a bit more complex macros that are interactive.

I could do everything i do now without windower, in fact i played on PS2 and Xbox for the first 5 years of my FF life. I could move back, but even more than what i'd lose from windwoer i'd hate not using a wide screen monitor where the interface only took up maybe 10% of the screen instead of 50% that console players look at.

I could live w/o windower, and yeah i'll admit that it gives me a bit of an edge, but what you need to remember is we're playing a coperative MMO it's not like i'm going to come barging into your mog house with windower and beat you down with it. I don't camp HNM and i prolly won't even try for a Kupo-ring for a few months when it very slowly moves into NA times. The worst "crime" you'll see me commit with windower is making sure that i'm outside the range for Silence and Amnesia from imps or that i'm standing in range of Discoid.

I believe it was AP Radar I was talking about. I know you can use it to see the correct antlion in the one ENM, so I'm under the impression that Mog Tablets could be found in this way, too.
If it isn't possible, then I'm sorry for being an *** about it. I'll still be butthurt about needing multiple equipment macros, though! D:

Hmm the fact that the same ppl that created FFXIAH.COM and Windower are the same, doesn't really have any relevance on wether one or the other is fair or unfair.

First of all and this is one of the main arguments: not everyone has access to windower. You could get picky and say not everyone has a PC with ffxiah access, but come one in reality 99.9% of the players have access to a PC. Whereas not all console users have the version on PC as well as for the console.
The program does give an advantage, however small it is one. and not seizable by everyone.

Now also we are working in shades of gray here, not black and white. Both are borderline but some plug ins in windower are a bigger advantage than others. Specially on extreme situations, they CAN make the difference if used right. But on your everyday playing it definetly won't.

Also windower enables cheating. like claimbot or speedhax :X I was once in a reputable HNMLS where these things were used (I don't think they are used anymore, since I got away from those circles). I understand that doesn't mean that every user will cheat, but it can happen. But this is not the program's fault itself but the users.

Unless Im mistaken, Ap radar =/= Windower. If we're both thinking of the same thing, Ap radar is a third party BOT, that Im pretty sure you have to pay for. It analyzes packets within the game, or something, Im not sure. Forgive me, I never did understand how a bot works, exactly. Maybe someone else could explain.

Im also in the middle of a limbus run, and unable to spend too much time away from my duties! :X

Edit:



You're thinking of Aps, the BOT. Windower does not offer movement speed or claim botting.

Those are TWO DIFFERENT PROGRAMS.

If I remember correctly windower was NEEDED in order to execute these programs. so it did ENABLE cheating.
idk how it works nowadays... as I said I am retired from those circles... and this was 2-3 yrs ago when I did HNM.

EDIT: had some quoting problems >.< 1 AM here and been studying all day but yeah you can get the idea

Windower makes a difference in your everyday playing, maybe less for melee, but for BLM at least, without spellcast plugin, windower macros/scripts, and some plugin like Distance/G15 Plugin, I'd be easily like 30 to 50% less efficient. While I'm not focusing on my equip swap, I can focus on what's happening around me, and this definately enhance my reaction time.

Things console player can hardly do (or can do but while being less efficient) :

-Switching to pre-cast set prior EACH cast (macro'ing Fast Cast equip so cast time is reduced whatever spell you're using) then autoswitching midcast to the right equip before the spell land, then switching back to idle set. You cannot efficiently macro stuff pre-cast without Windower... It takes like <100ms with windower, with SE macro you'd need 1 second at least.

-Canceling stoneskin 0.1~0.3 seconds before new stoneskin/blink is re-applied, while keeping idle set (-% damage) on and switching to stoneskin set right before it land.

-Autoswitching to conserve MP set for status cure, buffs (minus SS), reraise etc..., enabling you to get 25~30+ ConserveMP (so that's 50~55+ including base BLM conserveMP). Average MP saved is +8% (so +15% total with base 25 conserveMP) on all these spells while using ConserveMP set.

-Using haste set for stun, stun being <0.5sec spellcast, you need to pre-cast haste set, again, it's instant with windower, slow with SE macro, and you cannot waste even half a second when stun is needed...

-Keeping track of all sleep you cast, individual countdown for all target you slept, warning you when a mob (the mob name in /echo) will wake up. You can literally pin down a group of 8-10 mobs with this, re-applying sleep exactly when mobs wake up. Sure you can use SE macro to manually count 60/90 seconds, but as soon as you have 2-3 mobs on seperate timer, you'll go mad remembering who'll wake up first. It's fine for 5-10min, not for 3hr30 dynamis...

-Changing 12 piece of gear midcast... GL doing that with SE macro. When using Elemental dot, need to almost switch all your equip for full INT set. Cast time is <2.5sec, SE macro ? Just too slow. Doing it pre-cast manually ? Not efficient.

And the list goes on, automatic Ugga Pendant / Prudence torque swapping if MPaftercast > or <50%, obi/afv2 legs equip, forcing yellow even on tier II nuke, specific rules which prevent you to commit mistake...

Not gonna even mention distance and blinkmenot. Windower gives blm a huge in-game advantage and this on everyday playing.

If you ask me, i'd rather play with NQ staves and with my spellcast/distance plugins, than with HQ staves but official SE macro.

windower is the devil

Windower is awesome. I've even wrote an elaborate article on how you can use it to get some really great advantages in Salvage and Nyzul Isle (and other places I'm sure)

http://ami.calcobrena.com/2008/10/cheating-in-nyzul-isle.html

OK if that's not an unfair advantage I really don't know what is...

lol..

Suck on it windowerless console monkey.

I'm just messin, haha, but really, what can ya do :P


Here's an image of me looking through a wall, LOL. It's actually two screenshots. The fillmode one is a cut-away to show the difference between turning textures off and on.

nyzul itself cheats.. boss floor, white magic restricted and various other ***.

QFT

I have PC :P but I don't use windower other than dual boxin when it's necesary (like a raise in a far off place) or viewing my WS points... I really want atonement but being on floor 45 doesn't help!

This might sound a bit contradictory of me. But I never said don't use windower and it's beenfits... I just think it's an advantage... up to you if you take it.

But that graphics thingy I didn't know off...

What worries me now... is how do tarus have such high INT, when look it's empty in there!!! T_T
Galka BLMs FTW!

>.>;

Well you can basically play in wireframe mode in all DirectX based game, some tools exists to simply starts these game in full wireframe mode. Windower just make this easy and enable user to disable/enable it when needed.

Yeah, I went over that, LOL. You don't need windower to do it, but they sure make it easy :)

these threads are really beginning to make me lol irl. /facepalm

It's a good thing at least :p It proves that they're not completely worthless.

I use windower, but I also play on a PS2 and have played on Xbox in the past. But when using windower I have most of the plugins disabled unless I load them myself. I don't use fillmode, rarely use yarnball. And all the things I do on my pc I can do on my PS2 just as fast, my gear swaps and such, it's just now I have scripts on windower so it swaps gear in 1 macro touch instead of 2, but on PS2 all my macro swaps are put together so that I can hit one then the other really quick.

And about AP radar it doesn't let you claim any more efficiently, and it also doesn't show where the Antlion is in the ENM, I have tried it and it didn't work. As for showing where the mog tablets are, yes it will do that, but you still have to be almost within range to actually target yourself. You lose sight/target of a mob at 50 on the distance plug in and that's about the same range that AP radar has. For me AP radar I use as a map more then anything about 95% of the time I have it so it doesn't show mobs at all. I'm too lazy to open up my map ingame so I have it set beside so I can see where I'm going (I get lost easy).

Teach me!! I don't have problems with the ENM I just want to find the damn NM faster so I can go to bed sooner on Saturdays >.>
And yes I have unlocked it, had it show mobs on all floors and it still didn't show anything. I saw the Shikaree mobs from the CoP mission.

/comfort one day they'll figure it out