THF TP Sets And Assassin Poulaines +2.

Yep
Yep 100% right, but I was under the impression a ~400 test sample size was considered too small for testing purposes.

Yes, I knew those were there and that still does not answer the question regarding why they aren't used in more TP sets. Thanks for linking me to something I already read though!

No

Because it's a more efficient use of time to do more damage than level up TH.

You will farm more coins (ie - make more money) by killing mobs as fast as possible (after proc of course).



Increasing TH level is subjectively insignificant. It may be slightly, slightly, slightly, slightly, slightly more significant for NMs that take time to pop (referring mostly to Abyssea Empyrean NMs).

Set4, adding the Oce. Headpiece +1 for a total of 151 Dex: 33.02% overall, 32.66% mobA, 33.71% mobB, 32.25% mobC. Subtract 5% merit, 5% base, 5% Rancorous, 3% Nefarious, and you get 15.02% from dDEX+AM, 14.66%A, 15.71%B, 14.25%C. Looks like the upper end of the dDEX sweet spot to me, added 8 DEX over set3 and got 4 Crit Rate.

Someone who has a Twashtar not a Mandau or wouldn't mind not using Mercy for a whole run can finish up the testing for exact AGI values if they care to, I'm just looking for a general idea of where DC's sweet spot is. With the information so far, the sweet spot occurs near the 140-150 DEX range.

Thanks for data. It looks like this comparison is very dependent on race. Mithra has more wiggle room. Before I was using Thaumas, I used to use Love Torque because my crit rate seemed to be hitting the sweet spot with it, but now with the benefit of Thaumas' dex, I just use Nefarious/Rancor/Thaumas as Mithra.

Just wanted to quickly mention that unless you were switching anything else out except Nef->Love for set 3, it's 5DEX not 7DEX.

Thanks for the data!

Good catch, I guess I had sevens on the mind.


I'm thinking 97-99 as the AGI values that fit the dDEX model the best. Ironically, that is a 10 DEX handicap compared to what was previously on the spreadsheet.

Set1: 120DEX - 97AGI = 23dDEX = 3% Crit Rate, 3.33% in the parse (3%A, 4.2%B, 3.05%C).
Set2: 138DEX - 97AGI = 41dDEX = 6% Crit Rate, 7.53% in the parse (6.80%A, 6.53%B, 9.97%C).
Set3: 143DEX - 97AGI = 46dDEX = 11% Crit Rate, 10.79% in the parse (9.74%A, 12.03%B, 10.2%C).
set4: 151DEX - 97AGI = 54dDEX = 15% Crit Rate, 15.02% in the parse (14.66%A, 15.71%B, 14.25%C).

So my official position until shown otherwise is high 140's DEX to make a dDEX set work on Dyna DC's, 150 to be safe. As for what gear to do that in or if it's worthwhile, it literally depends on race.

Thinking out loud, the top dDEX changes are...
DEX daggers: If you aren't using a Mandau, don't discount dagger with solid DPS that helps you on the way to 50 dDEX. I'd imagine Twashtar users wouldn't have much trouble reaching 150 DEX or higher for a wider dDEX utility range should the situation arise.
Love Torque: Gain 5 DEX, 7 Acc/Attack; lose 3 Crit rate from Nefarious Collar. A no-brainer change over Nefarious while in the sweet spot, outside, it's harder to say how much damage the progress towards 150 DEX is worth.
Thaumas Nails: Gain 2 DEX, 3-5 DEX Nyzul Set Bonus, 3% DA, 14 Attack, 9 AGI; lose 3% TA, 2% TA Damage from AF2+2. Not much loss compared to AF2+2, but not really much DEX gain without the Set Bonus.
Thaumas Gloves: Gain 8 DEX, 3-5 DEX Nyzul Set Bonus, 9 Acc, 8 VIT; lose 3% DA, 5 STR from Nomkahpa. Pitiful melee stats unless you consider how much closer it brings you to 10 Crit Rate; at least they have Haste.
Ocelomeh Headpiece +1: Gain 13 DEX, 13 AGI, 1% Haste, 2 Regen; lose 3% TA, 12 Acc. Losing 3% TA is 6 attacks in 100 minus diminished returns is a steep price to pay, not entirely sure if it'll pay off. Regen is nice in Dynamis though.
Raider's Culottes +2: Gain 7 DEX, 4% Crit Rate, AF3 Set Bonus; lose Nyzul Set Bonus, 1% Haste, 14 Acc/Attack, 9 STR, 9 AGI, 40 HP. Really not sure if these will pay off, but I'm out of time to run hypotheticals so I've got to wrap this up.

My intuition says that Thaumas Hands, Thaumas Feet, and Love Torque will be worthwhile because they either sacrifice little, or in the case of Thaumas Hands, deliver a ton (13 DEX while keeping 26% haste). Set2/3/4 with 4/5 Thaumas felt more evasive than my usual set1, which is another plus since we're talking Dynamis DC.

Just to add to this a bit, I parsed two runs today using 4/5 Thaumas, Mithra, DEX+12 merits, RCB, Love Torque, Rancorous Mantle. Valk DC. 150 DEX on the nose. I took one of the team and didn't use Mercy Stroke at all in either run, only Exenterator.

Crit rate averaged overall was 26.08% out of 8140 hits. 5% base, 15% ddex, 5% merits and 5% from Rancorous should have put me at 30% if ddex was capped. My dex-derived crit is at least a bit lower than it should be due to times when I'm wearing PDT due to multiple links and also however much time I spent wearing TH hands/feet to tag things-- seems like that should be not much since it's one round of attacks, but mobs die really fast sometimes and wearing TH gear for ~4 seconds can be a significant percentage of the fight.

So if that's generously a 2% crit penalty, then I'm still 2% short of the cap, which would require 152 (154 max) dex for the zone if you ignore the variance between individual mob types.

Also, if anyone cares, my evasion was 79.43% (surely helped by Exent spam). And Exenterator was 363/2477/4509 low/avg/high.

I've parsed my crit rate at 33% a few times using Mercy and Nefarious collar, so I was a bit surprised to see these results. I'll keep parsing to see if there are any contradictions.

That's very consistent with the estimates I made from my parses on DNC, notable because DNC doesn't worry about TH and I had a pet WHM and didn't use defensive sets.

I estimated 92-102 for the three mob families I was fighting.

70% evasion, which is approximately the difference between Evasion Bonus traits that THF and DNC get.

Also, I implore you, do not forget signet. It is significant.

Does the signet bonus work in dynamis?

You don't lose TP while resting in Dynamis if you have Signet up, so it's reasonable to assume that the other bonuses apply as well.

I never even considered signet! /feels dumb. Also happy to see a situation where offhanding my 99 twash makes a tangible difference. Im swimming in dex with that free 20. 165 total in my tp set covers me up to 115 agi capped. If dc mobs have about ~100, what level stuff gas 115ish?

Great iinfo thanks for all the testing guys!

Assuming a lack of Nom Mitts, would Raiders+2 Legs and Brego be better than Thaumas Legs and Brego or Thaumas Hands? Assuming a situation like dynamis where the attack is good.

Failaras, if you read the last 2 pages of this thread, you will realize you need to provide a lot more information to get your question answered. Your race along with your other gear are going to weigh in heavily on that.


Anyway, as Mithra, this set gives me 135 dex.


Swapping Thaumas Coat to AF3+2 body, and Thaumas Kecks to AF3+2 legs, I get 150 dex (still at 23% haste).

To stay at capped haste (I 2-box a bard), I would use Brego Gloves instead of AF3+2 hands. Back to original set, this gives me 127 dex.

Swapping in AF3+2 body and legs again, I get 142 dex.

*Edit* I decided to stick with the above set but swapping in Brego Gloves when I have double marches.

stupid question: Anyone know if ganesha's is useful for THF in anyway? HP+4% Attack+4% Haste+4% (I know raider's head would beat it out of the ballpark >_>;;)

Maybe for subbing dark knight?

lol nvm then and like when does thf evr sub drk @___@

Thank you! Tired of people banking on TH procs rather than simply killing more efficiently. If you've not proced TH by the time red procs in Dynamis, then you're wasting time procing while you could be killing a stunned target. If TH worked to increase the actual drop rate and not just the "rolls" you get at the same drop rate, then I'd have a different opinion.

I know this thread was mostly about Assassin's Poulaines, but I figure this is the best place to put this.

I played around with the new items available and I think Patentia Sash can be put back onto the table for THF.



You'd use Sigyn's Visor as applicable. Not sure if Waruukatte boots fits in anywhere.

Seems goofy to say you'll ever use Sigyn's Visor over Raider's Bonnet +2.

Set looks decent, but that is a lot of multihit to give up for 5 DW (as sexy as it is).

Sigyn's VS Raider's is basically 1% TA vs 12 Attack. It depends on what you're fighting of course. If you were still using Raider's hands the Raider's hat would probably win in the long run because of the chance at set procs. Otherwise I'm guessing 12 attack can situationally beat the TA.

It's losing a lot of multiattack yeah, but I'm getting the set winning in most cases. In some ways losing tons of multiattack can be a good thing since THF is such a horribly TP-feed happy job. They seriously need to give THF native subtle blow...

Concuring with kincard that his above set (with Sigyn head, Nefarious and Rancorous instead of Skadi+1, Rancor and Atheling) came out significantly higher than every other options I was playing around with (which were all much closer to each other) on DC-level content (Dynamis, etc). The standard AF3+2 and 4/5 Thaumas still came out top for me on hard content where you weren't acc capped.

It isn't even that much multi-attack lost. The best DC mob TP set before Neo-Salvage was pretty much AF3+2 Bonnet, Nefarious, Suppa, Brutal, Epona's, Rajas, Rancorous Mantle, Twilight Belt and 4/5 Thaumas.

In that case you're losing 5% DA and 1% TA in exchange for 5% DW. With 33%DW 13DA 18TA 4QA base, 5%DW adds more DoT than 1TA & 5DA (Like 6-7% vs 4-5%).
After that you're comparing 29-30Acc (and 18Dex) vs 23-24Attack and 1-2 fStr - which depends on if you need Acc or not or possibly if the 18Dex adds 10% Crit.

There is a confirmed partial set bonus now, so this makes skadi+1 much better. If it's the same as usu, that would be 3% for 2 pieces. Hopefully it's 3% per piece, or more.

Any link for testings regarding the partial set bonus?

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/108199-Random-Facts-Thread-Other?p=5531770&viewfull=1#post5531770
Only usu set tested so far, hopefully we will have some other set results soon.

Partial set effects.....NICE

Yeah, I gotta start collecting a shitton of Umbrage plans... >_>

I think it's still only the helm and gloves that are useful though. Even with the crit rate bonus I don't think Chausses will beat Thaumas Kecks and Thaumas Coat is really hard to top, and Skadi's Boots +1 are really crappy.

3% crit wouldn't beat the str on thaumas? How about 10% dw on skadi body? I know dnc body is still top tier unless delay reduction capped. Always a chance that the set bonuses increase too, like nyzul gear. Seems a bit unlikely, but possible.