SAM Gear At Lvl. 90

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SAM gear at Lvl. 90
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 Carbuncle.Flionheart
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By Carbuncle.Flionheart 2011-09-15 14:31:59
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Shiva.Ithorien said: »
Carbuncle.Flionheart said: »
Who's this Ithorien jokah?

I don't remember him

Been playing since 2004, active during the glorious Samurai Union era on KI (2005-2006). Quit at the end of '06 and came back/quit a few more times since then.

Oh, and I'm an elitist ***.

How do you feel about stealing peoples NMs for fun and then CFHing or MPKing a group with indrik over and over again? These questions are important before we form a lasting friendship
 Leviathan.Dodu
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By Leviathan.Dodu 2011-09-15 14:32:08
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BorealisV2 said: »
Lakshmi.Emanuelle said: »
BorealisV2 said: »
Lakshmi.Emanuelle said: »
oncura said: »
I've been praying for new outside abyssea content myself other then voidwatch, some new kings or something. seems unlikely to me but it would give alot jobs back their former glory, including sam.
sam had the glory for a very long time, now it's drg mnk war bst powa all theh wayzzz!

HA!

lol'd at the DRG and BST in there.

Funny stuff, Emanuelle.
>.> since when drg is lol now? have you ever seen/parse one? drg can out dd sam very easy 2-5k jumps tp gain on top of that, 5-6k drakes plus wyvern with sam sub (sam hardly reaches 4k w/fudo), oh plzzz you still live on the toa era :p

Just loling at you putting DRG and BST up there with MNK and WAR.

BST is a joke, but you're severely mistaken if you think DRG is in any way offensively inferior to WAR to any significant degree, and unless your target is weak to H2H, DRG is going to blow MNK out of the water.
 Leviathan.Dodu
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By Leviathan.Dodu 2011-09-15 14:37:30
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Shiva.Ithorien said: »
Fenrir.Uzugami said: »
Shiva.Ithorien said: »
Leviathan.Dodu said: »
6-hit and 5-hit are virtually indiscernible, which 6-hit leaving a significant amount of breathing room for additional accuracy.

Edit: Derp, you have an Amano. That's different.

If you use the same WS damage and the same hit average in both builds, a 5hit 22% haste will return higher DoT than 6hit 25/6% haste. You just have to make sure you dump TP asap, and that doesn't work everywhere.

Using spreadsheet (Atleast as far as Masamune goes) My 6hit set > 5hit set in terms of DPS.

Just checked spreadsheet, and my sets are still according to my original statement. Are you accounting for the extra required STP on a Masa build for a 5 hit? Either way the difference is quite small, but it edges out full haste.

Yeah, no.

And regardless, you don't auto-cap acc. against things SAM is decent against, and 5-hit drops a considerable amount of potential acc.
 Leviathan.Draylo
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By Leviathan.Draylo 2011-09-15 14:39:58
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Such as?
 Shiva.Andytheraven
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By Shiva.Andytheraven 2011-09-15 14:40:47
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Wonder why sam is considered bad as far as procing goes. The few times I do take it in abyssea I can do great katana, sword, club, polearm, and staff red procs that is 7 WS proc that I can do in 3 min tell me another job that can do that.

Not trying to troll I do understand after red other DDs with out do sam just saying if you got the extra slot it help speed things up.
 Bismarck.Ramyrez
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2011-09-15 14:41:56
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Shiva.Ithorien said: »
Carbuncle.Flionheart said: »
Who's this Ithorien jokah? I don't remember him
Been playing since 2004, active during the glorious Samurai Union era on KI (2005-2006). Quit at the end of '06 and came back/quit a few more times since then. Oh, and I'm an elitist ***.


Pffh. Not wearing a haub+1 these days, you're not!
 Shiva.Ithorien
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By Shiva.Ithorien 2011-09-15 14:46:36
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Leviathan.Dodu said: »
Shiva.Ithorien said: »
Fenrir.Uzugami said: »
Shiva.Ithorien said: »
Leviathan.Dodu said: »
6-hit and 5-hit are virtually indiscernible, which 6-hit leaving a significant amount of breathing room for additional accuracy.

Edit: Derp, you have an Amano. That's different.

If you use the same WS damage and the same hit average in both builds, a 5hit 22% haste will return higher DoT than 6hit 25/6% haste. You just have to make sure you dump TP asap, and that doesn't work everywhere.

Using spreadsheet (Atleast as far as Masamune goes) My 6hit set > 5hit set in terms of DPS.

Just checked spreadsheet, and my sets are still according to my original statement. Are you accounting for the extra required STP on a Masa build for a 5 hit? Either way the difference is quite small, but it edges out full haste.

Yeah, no.

And regardless, you don't auto-cap acc. against things SAM is decent against, and 5-hit drops a considerable amount of potential acc.

Not really sure what you don't get, unless the spreadsheet you have is different from mine. It edges it out, black on white. Nothing to argue about. And where exactly are you getting all this accuracy from? Two biggest pieces to cap haste over 5hit are Zelus and Bullhwip (see what I did?) neither of which have accuracy on them. None of the gear you've posted before has any extra accuracy either. Am I being whooshed?

And you're clearly not getting what I'm trying to say either. Just because it's edging it out by mere single digits, doesn't meant it's automatically better either. I didn't say which one is right, merely said which one is edging out the other.


Bismarck.Ramyrez said: »
Shiva.Ithorien said: »
Carbuncle.Flionheart said: »
Who's this Ithorien jokah? I don't remember him
Been playing since 2004, active during the glorious Samurai Union era on KI (2005-2006). Quit at the end of '06 and came back/quit a few more times since then. Oh, and I'm an elitist ***.


Pffh. Not wearing a haub+1 these days, you're not!

Clearly you've been whooshed sir.
 Leviathan.Dodu
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By Leviathan.Dodu 2011-09-15 14:47:23
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Leviathan.Draylo said: »
Such as?

Several lower and higher tier VW mobs.
 Shiva.Ithorien
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By Shiva.Ithorien 2011-09-15 14:52:48
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Carbuncle.Flionheart said: »
Shiva.Ithorien said: »
Carbuncle.Flionheart said: »
Who's this Ithorien jokah?

I don't remember him

Been playing since 2004, active during the glorious Samurai Union era on KI (2005-2006). Quit at the end of '06 and came back/quit a few more times since then.

Oh, and I'm an elitist ***.

How do you feel about stealing peoples NMs for fun and then CFHing or MPKing a group with indrik over and over again? These questions are important before we form a lasting friendship

Man, this is a trick question. 5 years ago I'd be all for it, but I've become a lot more calm and passive since.

Was about to snag a Rani the other day though when these "mercs" were wiping to her for 20 minutes straight. But it was late and I was all by my lonesome.
 Carbuncle.Flionheart
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By Carbuncle.Flionheart 2011-09-15 14:54:11
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We're perfectly calm when we do it, we have our chief laughing like a maniac when we do though.

There is no motive behind our actions, it feels good.

If we were on that Rani we would have stolen it, called for help and then flee'd it to the other side of the zone.

Hopefully they would have brewed by then too.
 Bismarck.Ramyrez
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2011-09-15 14:55:29
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Quote:
Clearly you've been whooshed sir.

“I don’t like you.”

I don't have stock photos available to me at the moment. So please insert a meme-esque picture of Phillip J. Fry squinting at Gunther.


That is all.
 Shiva.Ithorien
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By Shiva.Ithorien 2011-09-15 15:01:10
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Bismarck.Ramyrez said: »
Quote:
Clearly you've been whooshed sir.

“I don’t like you.”

I don't have stock photos available to me at the moment. So please insert a meme-esque picture of Phillip J. Fry squinting at Gunther.


That is all.

[+]
 Leviathan.Dodu
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By Leviathan.Dodu 2011-09-15 15:05:51
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@Ithorien

Past comparisons showed greater acc. opportunities attached with a 6-hit, but I can't for the life of me recall what swaps were being made. You can chalk that up to a mistake for the time being.

I will say with absolute certainty that whatever minor edge 5-hit has over 6-hit is completely out the window if one is getting any outside haste other than the spell. Using Mala instead of Rancor should do the same as well.
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By Odin.Hitoseijuro 2011-09-15 15:06:13
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Shiva.Ithorien said: »
Not really sure what you don't get, unless the spreadsheet you have is different from mine. It edges it out, black on white. Nothing to argue about. And where exactly are you getting all this accuracy from? Two biggest pieces to cap haste over 5hit are Zelus and Bullhwip (see what I did?) neither of which have accuracy on them. None of the gear you've posted before has any extra accuracy either.
Grip: -3% delay
ammo: +4.75acc(black tath.)4att
ring: 8acc(mars)8att
neck: +6acc(rancor)+5% crit rate(Gane when you dont need acc 2% quadruple attack)
Aces: 5% zanshin = 1% hassozanshin


Thats 18 more acc, faster swings and some crit rate or extra swings you couldnt get with a 5hit because youre bound with stp gear you cant remove not to meantion more ws are creating more delay over time.
 Cerberus.Wolfshadow
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By Cerberus.Wolfshadow 2011-09-15 15:09:07
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Carbuncle.Flionheart said: »
We're perfectly calm when we do it, we have our chief laughing like a maniac when we do though.

There is no motive behind our actions, it feels good.

If we were on that Rani we would have stolen it, called for help and then flee'd it to the other side of the zone.

Hopefully they would have brewed by then too.
end of the day we're all one step further from the deadly disease known as diabeetus
this accompanied with the warm fuzzy feeling we get inside is more than enough motivation for me
 Carbuncle.Virtuosus
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By Carbuncle.Virtuosus 2011-09-15 15:11:34
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Quote:
SAM gear at Lvl. 90

Here you go.

[+]
 Bismarck.Ramyrez
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2011-09-15 15:11:47
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Shiva.Ithorien said: »
Bismarck.Ramyrez said: »
Quote:
Clearly you've been whooshed sir.
“I don’t like you.” I don't have stock photos available to me at the moment. So please insert a meme-esque picture of Phillip J. Fry squinting at Gunther. That is all.

A fine showing!
 Shiva.Ithorien
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By Shiva.Ithorien 2011-09-15 15:13:23
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Odin.Hitoseijuro said: »
Shiva.Ithorien said: »
Not really sure what you don't get, unless the spreadsheet you have is different from mine. It edges it out, black on white. Nothing to argue about. And where exactly are you getting all this accuracy from? Two biggest pieces to cap haste over 5hit are Zelus and Bullhwip (see what I did?) neither of which have accuracy on them. None of the gear you've posted before has any extra accuracy either.
Grip: -3% delay
ammo: +4.75acc(black tath.)4att
ring: 8acc(mars)8att
neck: +6acc(rancor)+5% crit rate(Gane when you dont need acc 2% quadruple attack)
Aces: 5% zanshin = 1% hassozanshin


Thats 18 more acc, faster swings and some crit rate or extra swings you couldnt get with a 5hit because youre bound with stp gear you cant remove not to meantion more ws are creating more delay over time.

You realize 5 hit only requires 41 STP which is obtainable without sacrificing a grip, ammo, ring or neck?

A 437 delay weapon requires full merits and 41 STP to reach a flat 20 TP per hit. Now, WS is a different story, but we're talking TP builds here. On a 450 that number is 34.

Only detriment is Ace's.
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By Odin.Hitoseijuro 2011-09-15 15:16:37
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Shiva.Ithorien said: »
You realize 5 hit only requires 41 STP which is obtainable without sacrificing a grip, ammo, ring or neck? A 437 delay weapon requires full merits and 41 STP to reach a flat 20 TP per hit. Now, WS is a different story, but we're talking TP builds here. On a 450 that number is 34. Only detriment is Ace's.
No, its not. Unless you plan to swing for the rest of your time, ws hit is always factored. 20 tp per hit is 80 tp after 4 hits, which means your ws hit has to be 20, which it wont be, thus you need more stp during your tp phase to compensate.
[+]
 Carbuncle.Virtuosus
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By Carbuncle.Virtuosus 2011-09-15 15:18:20
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It's not a 5-hit if you aren't factoring in the TP from WS. Unless that's a moot point suddenly for a job that is based off using WS?

Edit: The nicest part about a 5-hit in my opinion is how well it goes together with the 20 TP per tick Meditate gives. Other than that, with TP overflow from DA/Hassozanshin (Ikishoten) (TA/Regain if in Abyssea) and loss of other important stats it isn't even worth it half the time. Even more so if you aren't capped Haste in the 5-hit.

If you've got Haste and Double March going on, I'm pretty sure a 6-hit 26% Haste + Sword Strap beats a 5-hit 23% Haste + Rose Strap as well.
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By Zecilus 2011-09-15 15:19:56
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Dodu, I am very much interested in seeing what your Fudo WS gear set is whenver you have the moment to post it. It would be greatly appreciated.
 Shiva.Ithorien
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By Shiva.Ithorien 2011-09-15 15:30:25
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Odin.Hitoseijuro said: »
Shiva.Ithorien said: »
You realize 5 hit only requires 41 STP which is obtainable without sacrificing a grip, ammo, ring or neck? A 437 delay weapon requires full merits and 41 STP to reach a flat 20 TP per hit. Now, WS is a different story, but we're talking TP builds here. On a 450 that number is 34. Only detriment is Ace's.
No, its not. Unless you plan to swing for the rest of your time, ws hit is always factored. 20 tp per hit is 80 tp after 4 hits, which means your ws hit has to be 20, which it wont be, thus you need more stp during your tp phase to compensate.

Carbuncle.Virtuosus said: »
It's not a 5-hit if you aren't factoring in the TP from WS. Unless that's a moot point suddenly for a job that is based off using WS?

Are we arguing that your TP phase build has to produce more TP to compensate for piling on WS gear with no STP, then that's a whole nother story and we're on the same page there.
 Carbuncle.Virtuosus
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By Carbuncle.Virtuosus 2011-09-15 15:31:50
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Sure, it still remains the same. If you WS in your TP gear. Have fun doing good Fudo/Kaiten damage like that, though.
 Shiva.Ithorien
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By Shiva.Ithorien 2011-09-15 15:33:06
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Carbuncle.Virtuosus said: »
Sure, it still remains the same. If you WS in your TP gear. Have fun doing good Fudo/Kaiten damage like that, though.

Edited to reflect that. For a sec I thought I was being whooshed. Honestly been away from the job so long, I didn't even bother to check how outdated and what holes need to be plugged in my WS set.

Perhaps things changed so much my old mentality goes completely out the door when it comes to this job and the gear for it.
 Leviathan.Dodu
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By Leviathan.Dodu 2011-09-15 15:43:33
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Zecilus said: »
Dodu, I am very much interested in seeing what your Fudo WS gear set is whenver you have the moment to post it. It would be greatly appreciated.



Nothing special, really. I don't play SAM often enough to part with the money/inventory space for specialized, non-portable equipment. And my Fudo set is designed for uncapped additional swing WSacc, which should explain my headgear choice.

Edit: AF3+2 hands if Sekkanoki is up
 Shiva.Ithorien
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By Shiva.Ithorien 2011-09-15 15:48:24
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Leviathan.Dodu said: »
Zecilus said: »
Dodu, I am very much interested in seeing what your Fudo WS gear set is whenver you have the moment to post it. It would be greatly appreciated.



Nothing special, really. I don't play SAM often enough to part with the money/inventory space for specialized, non-portable equipment. And my Fudo set is designed for uncapped additional swing WSacc, which should explain my headgear choice.

The 5 STR / Zanshin on Unkai back better than the 3% DA and 6 ATK on Atheling?
 Carbuncle.Virtuosus
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By Carbuncle.Virtuosus 2011-09-15 15:50:44
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Leviathan.Dodu said: »
AF3+2 hands if Sekkanoki is up

This.

Here are optimal sets in my opinion:

Berserk Up


(Can use Twilight Mail since you probably don't have F. Radiant.)

Berserk Down


(Byrnie +1 for same reason as noted above.)

STR +4/Centaurus Earring work for Up/Down sets as well. AF3+2 Legs are applicable if you need the STP to maintain x-hit.
 Leviathan.Dodu
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By Leviathan.Dodu 2011-09-15 15:52:38
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2-3 attack when considering the STR, and no, probably not. For those who drop their meleeAcc to the floor when WSing(which isn't necessarily a bad thing outside of Abyssea), Unkai is probably slightly better. With my ~77 acc going along with my Fudos, DAs aren't likely to miss against higher level things, which means Atheling is probably slightly better.

Moral of the story, too lazy to carry Atheling with me on SAM.

Despite being in possession of one of my meager two Empyrean weapons, SAM really isn't a priority for me. When it comes to anything I have to say about SAM, do as I say, not as I do :s
 Shiva.Ithorien
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By Shiva.Ithorien 2011-09-15 16:14:56
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God, WS gear absolutely obliterates STP.

Really wonder how it averages out on longer fights (having to wait longer for TP).

Then again no I don't, because I really don't care that much anymore :/
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By Asura.Hotin 2011-09-15 16:15:02
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Ifrit.Darkanaseur said: »
Magic haste

It was MA haste at the start, nowadays it is JA haste they changed it months ago, easily tested with recast time.