Confused About Life.

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Confused about life.
 Leviathan.Dodu
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By Leviathan.Dodu 2011-09-10 13:39:39
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olyard said: »
How isn't it DD tanking? You aren't doing anything differently lol.

DD-tanking is used when you have little to nothing to gain from playing defensively. MNK is a stand-in job when HP becomes(arguably) more important than other defensive qualities. Technically, yes, you're obviously generating enmity through damage, but its not anywhere near what we've considered 'DD-tanking' in the past.

Semantics, and a difference in personal terminology usage. There's no reason to argue over it.
 Fenrir.Gradd
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By Fenrir.Gradd 2011-09-10 13:40:24
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You don't Need an Ochain/Aegis PLD to do VW, they just make your lives easier, plenty of people do just fine without them.
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By olyard 2011-09-10 13:40:38
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K so a MNK can tank because it has 300 extra HP, but a WAR can't because it doesn't have 300 HP. Noted.
 Leviathan.Dodu
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By Leviathan.Dodu 2011-09-10 13:41:29
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Phoenix.Fondue said: »
so having mobs where the only realistic tank is an ochain/aegis paladin is the correct direction for the game to go? pretty stupid imo

Going along with the theme of Aegis/Ochain being necessity for a moment, sure, why not? You need one tank for every group of 18. 18 people can build an Ochain in a couple of days.
 Phoenix.Fondue
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By Phoenix.Fondue 2011-09-10 13:41:32
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Fenrir.Gradd said: »
You don't Need an Ochain/Aegis PLD to do VW, they just make your lives easier, plenty of people do just fine without them.
have you fought this mantis?
 Shiva.Flionheart
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By Shiva.Flionheart 2011-09-10 13:42:05
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Leviathan.Dodu said: »
Shiva.Flionheart said: »
I'd be very surprised if Voidwatch is the only event that gets an update with this update.

I'm pretty sure they've pointed out a dungeon crawling event and other events that were in the planning stages.

That very well may be the case, and VW may turn out to be total ***at 99, but there's no reason to suggest they're going to veer away from the general mob structure they've used for it thus far(nor do I particularly want them to).

Like I said, I'm not WAR-hating, I just don't see it being as useful as it is in Abyssea very much after Abyssea stops being the game's only prime content.

If WAR is useless in VW (Never done it, so I'm unaware how truthful this is) then it would be the first event that using DDs to their full capacity was not a viable strategy, no?

I don't think it's safe to assume that heavy DD will become useless because one event denotes it. It's the exact same as saying all support is useless because it's useless in abyssea. As much as Abyssea may not be expanded on any more, it still holds the majority of useful gear for every job. I'd be very surprised if someone has every piece of useful gear for every job they have. Unless they make a new event with better gear, I'm pretty sure the event with the most useful content will be played more often than the event without useful content.

Sure it's nice to experience Voidwatch due to it being different, but are there that many pieces of relevant gear obtainable from it?
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 Phoenix.Fredjan
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By Phoenix.Fredjan 2011-09-10 13:44:08
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Leviathan.Dodu said: »
Shiva.Flionheart said: »
I'd be very surprised if Voidwatch is the only event that gets an update with this update.

I'm pretty sure they've pointed out a dungeon crawling event and other events that were in the planning stages.

That very well may be the case, and VW may turn out to be total ***at 99, but there's no reason to suggest they're going to veer away from the general mob structure they've used for it thus far(nor do I particularly want them to).

Like I said, I'm not WAR-hating, I just don't see it being as useful as it is in Abyssea very much after Abyssea stops being the game's only prime content.

This guy is pretty much spot on with what I think of WAR, lol.

also,
olyard said: »

Stop. Posting.
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By olyard 2011-09-10 13:44:22
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Most of the current voidwatch gear is marginally better than Abyssea stuff. There are a lot of nice items in the .dats atm, so I am betting they will come from new voidwatch crap.
 Fenrir.Gradd
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By Fenrir.Gradd 2011-09-10 13:44:27
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Phoenix.Fondue said: »
Fenrir.Gradd said: »
You don't Need an Ochain/Aegis PLD to do VW, they just make your lives easier, plenty of people do just fine without them.
have you fought this mantis?

Ive read into it, i'm pretty sure they will tone down its level of difficulty somewhat, Apademak anyone?
 Leviathan.Dodu
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By Leviathan.Dodu 2011-09-10 13:44:28
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Flion, I've already agreed that the future of relevant gear may not come from VW. I don't see any reason to believe that they won't continue with VW-type mobs for whatever does, though.

And WAR is at the very least useful for procs(just as great at it as they are in Abyssea), the only difference is that you don't serve to benefit very much from having more than one.
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By olyard 2011-09-10 13:44:44
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Phoenix.Fredjan said: »
olyard said: »
K so a MNK can tank because it has 300 extra HP, but a WAR can't because it doesn't have 300 HP. Noted.

Stop. Posting.

no u
 Carbuncle.Sevourn
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By Carbuncle.Sevourn 2011-09-10 13:44:56
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that's okay we only have one
 Phoenix.Fredjan
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By Phoenix.Fredjan 2011-09-10 13:45:09
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also, WAR is still useful for the amount of procs it has....
 Leviathan.Dodu
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By Leviathan.Dodu 2011-09-10 13:46:34
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Fenrir.Gradd said: »
Phoenix.Fondue said: »
Fenrir.Gradd said: »
You don't Need an Ochain/Aegis PLD to do VW, they just make your lives easier, plenty of people do just fine without them.
have you fought this mantis?

Ive read into it, i'm pretty sure they will tone down its level of difficulty somewhat, Apademak anyone?

I wouldn't want them to. Its a challenge to be sure, but its absolutely possible. A test server group has already gotten it down to ~40%, and I assure you the majority of those people didn't have macros.
 Fenrir.Niniann
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By Fenrir.Niniann 2011-09-10 13:46:57
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@Fli: off the top of my head, ZNMS, Omega/Ultima, some sky gods required a strategy that wasn't just "throw DDs at it until it dies". Most of these things could be tanked by like DRK and SAM, but it wasn't because they were "Dd-tanking" because they weren't.
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 Phoenix.Fredjan
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By Phoenix.Fredjan 2011-09-10 13:48:01
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Fenrir.Niniann said: »
@Fli: off the top of my head, ZNMS, Omega/Ultima, some sky gods required a strategy that wasn't just "throw DDs at it until it dies". Most of these things could be tanked by like DRK and SAM, but it wasn't because they were "Dd-tanking" because they weren't.
This.
DRK/NIN (most stuff) and SAM/NIN (DI, as well as others), sup.
 Shiva.Flionheart
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By Shiva.Flionheart 2011-09-10 13:48:12
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Leviathan.Dodu said: »
Flion, I've already agreed that the future of relevant gear may not come from VW. I don't see any reason to believe that they won't continue with VW-type mobs for whatever does, though.

And WAR is at the very least useful for procs(just as great at it as they are in Abyssea), the only difference is that you don't serve to benefit very much from having more than one.

I don't see any reason to believe they won't make another event similar to Abyssea in the future either. To be honest time will tell, and it's silly to write of all jobs in a category based on what might, or might not happen.

VW is too difficult for most casual groups, and if they carry on with content at that level they'll find themselves losing players, and I'd be very surprised if they didn't rally from that with more casually friendly content.

The point of an MMO is the cater to lots of groups. VW is great for hardcore groups and I'm happy there's an event that they can feel challenged doing, but casual groups who only play for a limited time still hold a pretty large player base I'd imagine, and I wouldn't think that SE would alienate all of them with content that requires a large specific group.
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By olyard 2011-09-10 13:50:23
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Most casuals take 8-10 people+ for things that only require two, I don't see them having a hard time getting the required number of people.
 Fenrir.Niniann
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By Fenrir.Niniann 2011-09-10 13:51:10
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@Flion: Only thing I can respond to that is we're dealing with the old director. He nerfed Modus Veritas out the *** because he couldn't accept the fact that people figured out a way to kill AV. :(
 Leviathan.Dodu
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By Leviathan.Dodu 2011-09-10 13:51:17
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Shiva.Flionheart said: »
Leviathan.Dodu said: »
Flion, I've already agreed that the future of relevant gear may not come from VW. I don't see any reason to believe that they won't continue with VW-type mobs for whatever does, though.

And WAR is at the very least useful for procs(just as great at it as they are in Abyssea), the only difference is that you don't serve to benefit very much from having more than one.

I don't see any reason to believe they won't make another event similar to Abyssea in the future either. To be honest time will tell, and it's silly to write of all jobs in a category based on what might, or might not happen.

VW is too difficult for most casual groups, and if they carry on with content at that level they'll find themselves losing players, and I'd be very surprised if they didn't rally from that with more casually friendly content.

The point of an MMO is the cater to lots of groups. VW is great for hardcore groups and I'm happy there's an event that they can feel challenged doing, but casual groups who only play for a limited time still hold a pretty large player base I'd imagine, and I wouldn't think that SE would alienate all of them with content that requires a large specific group.

You forget that the person who's back in charge notoriously did this to casual players for a long, long time. Still, even pickup groups can complete VW if they throw three PLD, too many WHM, and a combination of RNG/SMN/BLM at it.
 Shiva.Flionheart
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By Shiva.Flionheart 2011-09-10 13:51:47
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olyard said: »
Most casuals take 8-10 people+ for things that only require two, I don't see them having a hard time getting the required number of people.

They need those 8-10 people mostly too.

So through that logic they'd need more than a full alliance to actually do VW.

Maybe casual was the wrong word anyway. More 'small' groups.
 Phoenix.Fondue
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By Phoenix.Fondue 2011-09-10 13:52:29
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Fenrir.Niniann said: »
@Flion: Only thing I can respond to that is we're dealing with the old director. He nerfed Modus Veritas out the *** because he couldn't accept the fact that people figured out a way to kill AV. :(
hardly a legitimate strategy lol really?
 Phoenix.Fredjan
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By Phoenix.Fredjan 2011-09-10 13:53:11
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what I don't get is why SCH suddenly became badass <.<
 Shiva.Flionheart
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By Shiva.Flionheart 2011-09-10 13:53:41
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Fenrir.Niniann said: »
@Flion: Only thing I can respond to that is we're dealing with the old director. He nerfed Modus Veritas out the *** because he couldn't accept the fact that people figured out a way to kill AV. :(

I just find it hard to believe that they'll keep going the same direction when it will most definitely lose them money.

Maybe VW will be the dominant event at 95 but I can't see it happening for very long after that unless they do something miraculous to attract new players.
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By Shiva.Flionheart 2011-09-10 13:54:59
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Leviathan.Dodu said: »
Shiva.Flionheart said: »
Leviathan.Dodu said: »
Flion, I've already agreed that the future of relevant gear may not come from VW. I don't see any reason to believe that they won't continue with VW-type mobs for whatever does, though.

And WAR is at the very least useful for procs(just as great at it as they are in Abyssea), the only difference is that you don't serve to benefit very much from having more than one.

I don't see any reason to believe they won't make another event similar to Abyssea in the future either. To be honest time will tell, and it's silly to write of all jobs in a category based on what might, or might not happen.

VW is too difficult for most casual groups, and if they carry on with content at that level they'll find themselves losing players, and I'd be very surprised if they didn't rally from that with more casually friendly content.

The point of an MMO is the cater to lots of groups. VW is great for hardcore groups and I'm happy there's an event that they can feel challenged doing, but casual groups who only play for a limited time still hold a pretty large player base I'd imagine, and I wouldn't think that SE would alienate all of them with content that requires a large specific group.

You forget that the person who's back in charge notoriously did this to casual players for a long, long time. Still, even pickup groups can complete VW if they throw three PLD, too many WHM, and a combination of RNG/SMN/BLM at it.

Most casual players only have heavy DD. The category attracts that type of person.
 Phoenix.Fredjan
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By Phoenix.Fredjan 2011-09-10 13:55:45
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Shiva.Flionheart said: »
Fenrir.Niniann said: »
@Flion: Only thing I can respond to that is we're dealing with the old director. He nerfed Modus Veritas out the *** because he couldn't accept the fact that people figured out a way to kill AV. :(

I just find it hard to believe that they'll keep going the same direction when it will most definitely lose them money.

Maybe VW will be the dominant event at 95 but I can't see it happening for very long after that unless they do something miraculous to attract new players.

Abyssea has lasted more than a year. lol
 Fenrir.Terminus
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By Fenrir.Terminus 2011-09-10 13:56:04
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Jesus Christ this thread went downhill fast. And it started with a pink monk!
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 Shiva.Flionheart
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By Shiva.Flionheart 2011-09-10 13:58:37
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Phoenix.Fredjan said: »
Shiva.Flionheart said: »
Fenrir.Niniann said: »
@Flion: Only thing I can respond to that is we're dealing with the old director. He nerfed Modus Veritas out the *** because he couldn't accept the fact that people figured out a way to kill AV. :(

I just find it hard to believe that they'll keep going the same direction when it will most definitely lose them money.

Maybe VW will be the dominant event at 95 but I can't see it happening for very long after that unless they do something miraculous to attract new players.

Abyssea has lasted more than a year. lol

Abyssea was an incredibly casual friendly event, and therefore it will be played forever more. It gave mediocre players a chance to get really good gear.

VW on the other hand gives really good players a chance to get mediocre gear.
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 Phoenix.Fredjan
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By Phoenix.Fredjan 2011-09-10 13:58:59
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That's because the info he needed was posted at the very beginning.
 Phoenix.Fondue
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By Phoenix.Fondue 2011-09-10 13:59:36
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Shiva.Flionheart said: »
Abyssea was an incredibly casual friendly event, and therefore it will be played forever more. It gave mediocre players a chance to get really good gear.

VW on the other hand gives really good players a chance to get mediocre gear.
with an absolutely HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE drop system*

IT DIDNT WORK IN WOE SURELY IT WILL WORK HERE!
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