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RDM Job Manifesto
Cerberus.Eugene
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By Cerberus.Eugene 2011-08-11 21:51:35
Why do people care about how fast cures can get off? You should be focusing on potency first anyway.
Fenrir.Niniann
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By Fenrir.Niniann 2011-08-11 21:52:07
Carbuncle.Tweeek said: but ITT people are only making assumptions that are favorable to RDM when the truth is no one knows exactly what the future will hold. NO ONE knew atmas would come into play pre-abyssea right?)
They're RDMs, of course they're trying to think of things to make them useful again. :(
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By Leviathan.Quetzacoatl 2011-08-11 21:54:53
Cerberus.Eugene said: Why do people care about how fast cures can get off? You should be focusing on potency first anyway. 1. Fast Cast gear during casting
2. swap into cure potency gear
3. ???
4. PROFIT!
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By Siren.Kalilla 2011-08-11 21:55:18
Decided to make two sets to compare whm vs rdm for cure fast casts since its been a topic in the discussion.
BGWiki reports the new fast cast cap reaches 80%, but I'll be listing every available piece going over the cap.
Scholar Sub: 10%
Red Mage Sub: 15%
Cure Cast Time Merits: 20% | Item Name | Cast Time |
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Winged Wand | 2% | Incantor Stone | 2% | Selenian Cap | 2% | Aceso's Choker | 10% | Loquacious Earring | 2% | Anhur Robe | 10% | Nebula Cuffs +1 | 0.5% - 1% | Veela Cape | 1% | Capricornian Rope | 1% | Orison Pantaloons +2 | 12% | Cure Clogs | 15% | Gear Total: | 57.5% - 58% | Grand Total: | 87.5% - 93% |
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Fast Cast: 30%
Scholar Sub: 10% | Item Name | Cast Time |
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Vivid Strap +1 | 1% | Warlock's Chapeau +1 | 10% | Jeweled Collar | 3% | Estoqueur's Earring | 2% | Loquacious Earring | 2% | Duelist's Tabard +1 | 10% | Nebula Cuffs +1 | 0.5% - 1% | Capricornian Rope | 1% | Nebula Slops +1 | 2% | Augur's Gaiters | 3% | Gear Total: | 34.5% - 35% | Grand Total: | 74.5% - 75% |
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Realistic gear changes or not, just wanted to provide a comparison.
Cerberus.Eugene
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By Cerberus.Eugene 2011-08-11 21:55:40
Leviathan.Quetzacoatl said: Cerberus.Eugene said: Why do people care about how fast cures can get off? You should be focusing on potency first anyway. 1. Fast Cast on cast
2. swap into cure potency gear
3. ???
4. PROFIT!
Sure, but you should be focusing on cure potency first anyway. Go argue about that. You're comparing a 2.5 second cast to a 90-75% difference in speed. If you're spamming riding cure iv like that somethings wrong.
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By Leviathan.Quetzacoatl 2011-08-11 21:57:31
Cerberus.Eugene said: Leviathan.Quetzacoatl said: Cerberus.Eugene said: Why do people care about how fast cures can get off? You should be focusing on potency first anyway. 1. Fast Cast on cast
2. swap into cure potency gear
3. ???
4. PROFIT!
Sure, but you should be focusing on cure potency first anyway. Go argue about that usually you end up getting fast cast gear first? I don't know what you're arguing.
Cerberus.Eugene
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By Cerberus.Eugene 2011-08-11 21:58:31
Who cares who can cast cure4 faster?
Ragnarok.Sekundes
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By Ragnarok.Sekundes 2011-08-11 21:59:55
Leviathan.Quetzacoatl said: I think this whole Cure 5 debate got put to rest the moment this was posted
Leviathan.Quetzacoatl said: Camate said: Quote: Make it possible to use Cure V. In regards to support capability, we’re thinking more in the direction of adjustments that will differ from white mage.
Instead of just simply adding a high-tier Cure, we’re looking into making it so scholars can raise their performance further by enhancing the effects of stratagem use and regen-type magic. However, this doesn’t mean that we won’t be adding a high-tier Cure later down the line.
This would also mean RDM and SCH will not be getting Cure 5
Deal with It This is about sch isn't it? They may have different plans for rdm since rdm =/ sch. Plus, they specifically said they may add it in the future anyway.
I'd like cure 5 but I'd accept other things.
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By Leviathan.Quetzacoatl 2011-08-11 22:00:27
Cerberus.Eugene said: Who cares who can cast cure4 faster? I figured WHM had the faster cures anyway.
Cerberus.Eugene
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By Cerberus.Eugene 2011-08-11 22:01:06
Sure, but that's not what makes whm more attractive than rdm at this point in the game.
Ragnarok.Sekundes
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By Ragnarok.Sekundes 2011-08-11 22:01:16
Cerberus.Eugene said: Who cares who can cast cure4 faster? The tank/dd that lives because of that fraction of a second quicker cure in an emergency? It's the total amount that makes it worth it, if we didn't care no one would use fastcast at all.
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By Siren.Kalilla 2011-08-11 22:02:33
Ragnarok.Sekundes said: Cerberus.Eugene said: Who cares who can cast cure4 faster? The tank/dd that lives because of that fraction of a second quicker cure in an emergency? It's the total amount that makes it worth it, if we didn't care no one would use fastcast at all. Also cures over time if you never stop casting
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By Leviathan.Quetzacoatl 2011-08-11 22:02:39
Ragnarok.Sekundes said: Leviathan.Quetzacoatl said: I think this whole Cure 5 debate got put to rest the moment this was posted
Leviathan.Quetzacoatl said: Camate said: Quote: Make it possible to use Cure V. In regards to support capability, we’re thinking more in the direction of adjustments that will differ from white mage.
Instead of just simply adding a high-tier Cure, we’re looking into making it so scholars can raise their performance further by enhancing the effects of stratagem use and regen-type magic. However, this doesn’t mean that we won’t be adding a high-tier Cure later down the line.
This would also mean RDM and SCH will not be getting Cure 5
Deal with It This is about sch isn't it? They may have different plans for rdm since rdm =/ sch. Plus, they specifically said they may add it in the future anyway.
I'd like cure 5 but I'd accept other things. RDM and SCH are about even in curing skill, so I wouldn't put my money on it.
Wait, where are they saying they may add it in the future...? I'm suddenly fearful for my RDM now...source/pics or it didn't happen.
Cerberus.Eugene
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By Cerberus.Eugene 2011-08-11 22:02:53
Ragnarok.Sekundes said: Cerberus.Eugene said: Who cares who can cast cure4 faster? The tank/dd that lives because of that fraction of a second quicker cure in an emergency? It's the total amount that makes it worth it, if we didn't care no one would use fastcast at all.
You're talking about a third of a second, assuming both have optimal gear. Your whm wouldn't be riding cure 4 at that point anyway.
EDIT if cap is 80% you're talking about 1/8 of a second
Siren.Kalilla said: Also cures over time if you never stop casting Assuming unlimited mp and no interruptions whm should beat out rdm even if they had higher casting time, for a number of reasons. At least since last time I played.
Ragnarok.Sekundes
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By Ragnarok.Sekundes 2011-08-11 22:05:37
Small amounts of time can matter in critical situations. Is it game changing? No but it's a factor.
Ragnarok.Sekundes
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By Ragnarok.Sekundes 2011-08-11 22:06:08
Leviathan.Quetzacoatl said: Ragnarok.Sekundes said: Leviathan.Quetzacoatl said: I think this whole Cure 5 debate got put to rest the moment this was posted
Leviathan.Quetzacoatl said: Camate said: Quote: Make it possible to use Cure V. In regards to support capability, we’re thinking more in the direction of adjustments that will differ from white mage.
Instead of just simply adding a high-tier Cure, we’re looking into making it so scholars can raise their performance further by enhancing the effects of stratagem use and regen-type magic. However, this doesn’t mean that we won’t be adding a high-tier Cure later down the line.
This would also mean RDM and SCH will not be getting Cure 5
Deal with It This is about sch isn't it? They may have different plans for rdm since rdm =/ sch. Plus, they specifically said they may add it in the future anyway.
I'd like cure 5 but I'd accept other things. RDM and SCH are about even in curing skill, so I wouldn't put my money on it.
Wait, where are they saying they may add it in the future...? I'm suddenly fearful for my RDM now...source/pics or it didn't happen.
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By Siren.Kalilla 2011-08-11 22:09:07
Cerberus.Eugene said: Siren.Kalilla said: Also cures over time if you never stop casting Assuming unlimited mp and no interruptions whm should beat out rdm even if they had higher casting time, for a number of reasons. A rdm would never beat a whm, but if rdm was able to use cure V it would be a realistic option for curing, and it can still do RDM duties.
It wouldn't be the best, but it would make it an option to be rdm instead in many situations, not all, because of its flexibility.
I personally don't think RDM will get Cure V, but its not impossible.
Cerberus.Eugene
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By Cerberus.Eugene 2011-08-11 22:10:03
Sure, I'll agree with that.
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By Leviathan.Quetzacoatl 2011-08-11 22:17:34
Ragnarok.Sekundes said: Leviathan.Quetzacoatl said: Ragnarok.Sekundes said: Leviathan.Quetzacoatl said: I think this whole Cure 5 debate got put to rest the moment this was posted
Leviathan.Quetzacoatl said: Camate said: Quote: Make it possible to use Cure V. In regards to support capability, we’re thinking more in the direction of adjustments that will differ from white mage.
Instead of just simply adding a high-tier Cure, we’re looking into making it so scholars can raise their performance further by enhancing the effects of stratagem use and regen-type magic. However, this doesn’t mean that we won’t be adding a high-tier Cure later down the line.
This would also mean RDM and SCH will not be getting Cure 5
Deal with It This is about sch isn't it? They may have different plans for rdm since rdm =/ sch. Plus, they specifically said they may add it in the future anyway.
I'd like cure 5 but I'd accept other things. RDM and SCH are about even in curing skill, so I wouldn't put my money on it.
Wait, where are they saying they may add it in the future...? I'm suddenly fearful for my RDM now...source/pics or it didn't happen. Well you just said it yourself, this is about SCH, isn't it?
Honestly, the day I see RDM get cure 5 is the day I hang up my Chapeau and AF3+2 Body and scream at my monitor with 3-4 years worth of rage battling the Curebot stigma from ToAU.
Phoenix.Fondue
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By Phoenix.Fondue 2011-08-11 22:20:05
Leviathan.Quetzacoatl said:
Well you just said it yourself, this is about SCH, isn't it?
Honestly, the day I see RDM get cure 5 is the day I hang up my Chapeau and AF3+2 Body.
what
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By Leviathan.Quetzacoatl 2011-08-11 22:22:28
Phoenix.Fondue said: Leviathan.Quetzacoatl said:
Well you just said it yourself, this is about SCH, isn't it?
Honestly, the day I see RDM get cure 5 is the day I hang up my Chapeau and AF3+2 Body.
what I didn't level RDM to be told I'm really a Pink Mage.
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By Siren.Kalilla 2011-08-11 22:23:19
What is pink mage anyways? Does it just mean a rdm that is more like a whm? >.>
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By Leviathan.Quetzacoatl 2011-08-11 22:23:54
Yeah, when RDM/WHM was the defacto job combo in ToAU.
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By Siren.Kalilla 2011-08-11 22:25:47
Leviathan.Quetzacoatl said: Yeah, when RDM/WHM was the defacto job combo in ToAU. Never heard of it until recently lol, guess it makes sense
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By Asura.Dajociont 2011-08-11 22:25:53
Leviathan.Quetzacoatl said: Phoenix.Fondue said: Leviathan.Quetzacoatl said:
Well you just said it yourself, this is about SCH, isn't it?
Honestly, the day I see RDM get cure 5 is the day I hang up my Chapeau and AF3+2 Body.
what I didn't level RDM to be told I'm really a Pink Mage.
what
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By Siren.Kalilla 2011-08-11 22:27:33
Are you the type of RDM that flat out refuses to use a cure spell? Or if the situation calls for a quick cast you will. I've met some that flat out refuse to cure lol >.>
Phoenix.Fondue
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By Phoenix.Fondue 2011-08-11 22:30:38
is there a problem with one sub being better than others?
rdm/blm was fine for sleepgas in dyna but really offered nothing else -ele seal for 2 hnms
rdm/drk good for about 3 fights and weinerjar
rdm/war good for voke botting since you only needed it lv5
pretty sure theres defacto jobcombos for every other job too, thats how stuff works in a video game
Sylph.Kiaru
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By Sylph.Kiaru 2011-08-11 22:37:29
If SCH doesn't get cure5 light arts will literally be for "pretty white books" only, it already is now.
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By Leviathan.Quetzacoatl 2011-08-11 22:48:59
Siren.Kalilla said: Are you the type of RDM that flat out refuses to use a cure spell? Or if the situation calls for a quick cast you will. I've met some that flat out refuse to cure lol >.> I don't mind back-up curing, but pigeonholing a job to just a curebot just makes the job boring and flat.
Phoenix.Fondue said: is there a problem with one sub being better than others?
rdm/blm was fine for sleepgas in dyna but really offered nothing else -ele seal for 2 hnms
rdm/drk good for about 3 fights and weinerjar
rdm/war good for voke botting since you only needed it lv5
pretty sure theres defacto jobcombos for every other job too, thats how stuff works in a video game except when do some of those work nowadays? RDM/BLM may be still relevant, but I really like RDM/SCH for most things
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By Bahamut.Raenryong 2011-08-11 22:50:21
Phoenix.Fondue said: is there a problem with one sub being better than others?
Can you imagine this game if they tried to balance the subjobs?!
... not that they balance the main jobs but still.
Camate said: Greetings red mages!
Thanks for all of your feedback and sorry to keep you waiting! Here are a handful of responses we got from the development team in regards to your questions and requests.
Quote: Do you have any plans to enhance the viability of our sword-wielding proficiency?
As was stated in the preface of the job adjustments concept, the core concept of these adjustments is to make each job useful in HNM fights as well as other battle-related content. That said, we mentioned that the job adjustments will focus on party structuring, but that doesn’t mean that we will not be looking into the sword-wielding proficiency of red mages. We are actually planning adjustments to red mage’s proficiencies in the upcoming version update.
Quote: Make it possible to add enfeebling effects to En-spells.
We have no plans for this at the moment. When looking at the current system, where enfeebles take place using magic and En-spells increase damage, we’re pretty satisfied with the current separation of the two.
Quote: Add higher tier En-spells.
Planning to add these during the next version update. However, this isn’t going to be the tier-III version, we are thinking about a different type of En-spell.
Quote: Add an ability that enhances the effect of En-spells.
We would like to look into perhaps having this take place through merit points.
Quote: Make it possible for red mage to use Enlight and Endark.
Enlight and Endark are special magic spells for paladin and dark knight respectively and we have no plans to add them to red mage at this time.
Quote: Get rid of the 100% enfeeble resists on some monsters.
In regards to monsters that are completely resistant to certain spells, there is a high possibility that we won’t make any significant changes. However, there aren’t really too many of these monsters, so in regards to adjustments making it possible to land enfeebling magic easier, we feel it would be better for red mage’s to experience this effect on a larger amount of monsters.
Quote: Add new enhancing magic.
Since enhancing magic is an area that red mages excel at, we would like to add something. We have been receiving a lot of ideas for enhancing magic and we will be keeping them in mind when exploring this subject.
Quote: Will red mage be able to the use the higher tier Gravity?
We are planning to make this spell a red mage-specific spell, but are continuing to evaluate it.
Quote: Allow red mages to use one-hand sword weapon skills that can only be used by certain jobs and support jobs. We also want staff weapon skills.
We will be looking into both of these along with the weapon skills revamp.
Quote: Give red mage the “Fencer” job trait!
We looked into this, however, if we were to add this it wouldn’t be a job trait. The possibility is pretty high that it would be in the form of equipment that a red mage could wear.
Source: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/11518-Job-Adjustment%EF%BD%93-Manifesto-RDM?p=165408&viewfull=1#post165408
Mostly disappointing stuff and wasted questions. I welcome whatever Melee buffs we get (i used to melee a lot on RDM but I'm planning on an Almace for BLU and RDM), but I'm facepalming that SE is denying us Fencer as a job trait. lol@GearWeWillNeverUseOverHaste >_>
It also doesn't say much for the backline crowd. Can't say we're Enfeebling Masters if we're still getting our most powerful enfeebles resisted on HNMs. And can we just get Quick Magic, Elemental Stave-like Swords/Daggers, Regen III and Extremely useful Debuffs already? =\
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