Drg Or Drk. Wut You Think?

lol im trying to put a pic up and cant figur out how

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URL inside, remove the space in the tag.

100% true and backed up by my math as well xD. no benefit from sole sushi's acc. Hell on my drg, i can even drop my toreador's ring for blitz and use turban (instead of acc head askar ace's ect, don't have ace's but if i had still wouldn't use) and STILL have capped acc.

This is so awesome lol. A C in enfeebling, dude yourdoingitwrong. A "C" is nothing you can even call close to being reliable. Sure you can enhance your skill, but you would only raise it from not-reliable to sometimes-reliable, which remains not reliable. You may have slept a pt-mob or two sometimes and got the impression or have a certain mob in mind, but by that.. again.. this is not reliable.



No, just no. Hey i tell you a secret:
Trigger Healing Breath:
http://www.ffxiah.com/item.php?id=12519
Enhance it by over 57,75%:
http://www.ffxiah.com/item.php?id=16150

Any DRG as their main got one. I guess over 400 HP for 5 mp is not possible for a DRK and DRK won't be able to spam this like DRGs do, so end the senseless discussion about DRK having higher survivability than DRG, noone believes you at all. End of story.



What to say here... erm ... "No" and "welcome to reality"??

Can DRG DD and heal itself? NO
Can DRK DD and heal itself? YES

DRG can do ONE or the other. DRK can do both, hence making DRK a more versatile fighter.

...

Thats what I was thinking ... I don't even know where to start ...

I dont mean heal itself as in being able to look after itself with cures lol, I mean getting out of danger from low HP with drains.

Besides the subjob argument is a laugh, i'll break it down for you:

DRK:
Drain - 21mp/60 sec recast
Drain II - 37mp/180 sec recast
Dread Spikes - 78mp/180 sec recast

Ok let's estimate you have about 1500 HP (from the pics you posted earlier). That's a max of 750 HP for Dread Spikes. We include a 600 HP from Drain II and ~300 HP from Drain. Theese are the maintools according to you to keep a DRK alive and we calculate it like it would be unresisted to the max 24/7. Let's take the average healing possible per minute with mp-effiency for both jobs .

MP-Effiency:
300 / 21 = 14,29 HP/mp for Drain I
600 / 37 = 16,22 HP/mp for Drain II
750 / 78 = 9,62 HP/mp for Dread Spikes
Total: 40,13 HP/mp

HP-restore-potential:
(300 + 600 / 3 + 750 / 3) = 750 HP/min

not bad tbh. But now we look at mainDRG with BLU sub and Saurian Helm:

Healing Breath: 400
Trigger for HB:
Power attack - 5 mp/ 7.25 sec recast

MP-Effiency:
400 / 5 = 80 HP/mp for Healing Breath

HP-restore-potential:
400 * ( 60 / 7.25) = 3310,34 HP/min

Ok hold on your chair: 3310,34 HP/min is bigger than 750 HP/min!!!!! Unbelieveable isnt it? So we come to the conclusion that DRG has a higher MP-effiency and can heal more than a DRK per minute.

Oh yea and i didnt even take into account that with blu sub DRG gets +50% defense and that a DRKs spells are much more likely to be interrupted than a 0.5 sec Blu-spell AND i didnt even took in account that as DRG/BLU you could spam Healing Breath when circleing with "Foot Kick" and "Power Attack", which would even raise the HP/min in an incredible amount that will way surpass your loldrains that we even calculated to be non-resisted 24/7. Besides a DRG can Trigger his healing whenever he wants, your restricted to your recast timers, which is a rly bad con.

With DRK/SAM you might have more damage mitgation, i admit that, but the problem is just when Third Eye /randomwearsofftopissyouoff you are pretty much *** if you already used up your spells. We are not talking about EM-mobs here. For DRG the mobs to begin with are T+ and upwards and while chaining them they don't even have to rest for HP or MP.

In terms of survivability and solo DRG > DRK in any way, period. This doesn't mean DRG > DRK in general but it is worth mentioning. I know you like DRK and there is nothing against having fun with your job and being able to do this and that, but some jobs will just exceed you, because they simply have access to tools you don't, which is the whole point about having diffrent jobs and classes at all.

Well if you're NOT talking about solo, which drg kills drk in, super jump will get you out of danger much better than any drain will, provided you're the target of attack.

Edit: Also, I did all that pretty maths for you and you haven't even replied :( (last page in case you haven't seen it!). You rdy to fold your positions on those drgs being good and having the food advantage yet?

Thats the quality or DRGs 9/10 time I merit o.o

They were intended to show average DRG vs average DRK on birds does not result in DRG being better despite there apparent superiority.

Anyway my main point is that DRG is limited in its capabilities by its sj, can either DD or regen whereas DRK can do both, the first alot better in majority of scenarios (if you took the same player and put the best DRG gear and best DRK gear and put them against the range of different classes of mob across the game for instance).

Again, I'm not seeing how dread spikes and drains beats jumps in a party situation and I know you're not suggesting (hopefully not) that drk is a better soloer, so I'm not really seeing your point here.

Yes, drk can regen in full DD mode, but drg can prevent hate all together, thus not needing the regen to begin with.

I see no way to resolve this debate as you are obviously a DRG fan and you do not have experience of DRKs diverse capibilities at lvl 37.

I am a huge DRK fan its always been my favourite job/style across all FF games, however I do not have experience of DRG beyond low levels, something I may try out.

Therefore neither of us can fairly claim to know one job is better than the other without first trying the jobs in question.

However, my closing comment is that the term loldrg did not spring out the ground. I'l happily admit DRG is a great DD now that is has undergone several updates. You forget that SE had to make drastic changes to DRG just so it could stand a chance against other more powerful jobs DRK/SAM/WAR. If SE had not changed the DRG 2 hour, given the previous 2hr JA status, added throwing spears and a 2h update, DRG would still be a backwater way of playing.

So yeh I think the only thing left to do is agree to disagree!?

"However, my closing comment is that the term loldrg"

I don't know where you've been, but drk had an lol suffix it carried for a LONG time as well.

"If SE had not changed the DRG 2 hour, given the previous 2hr JA status, added throwing spears and a 2h update, DRG would still be a backwater way of playing."

Sure, you can say that, but that opens me to say that if SE had not introduced the 2handed update, jobs like drk sam drg would not even be able to hold a candle to jobs like mnk, dual wield war, and nin.

What matters is the CURRENT game, not how it was. This game has been around for what, 6-7 years? They've changed a ton.

Oh lawdy.

Let's agree to disagree so that Sagittario doesn't have to look at the math that positively buries his precious DRK in a survivability comparison, shall we?

I hope that's you, otherwise I'm sad. But it's really well done o.o and adorable.

lol i wish its me thats a kick *** outfit someone made it was on DA website

Ah ok. It's soooo nice. Now you need to make one. D:<

lol sure I'll get right on that one :D

Only if you come help make it :P

Um no lets do that so that we dont keep arguing over something that will never be resolved. Everyone is entitled to there own opinions, I have not made any personal stabs at you so dont do it to me, its not my fault your feel the need to inflate your ego to compensate for the little things in your life.

Numbers are all well and good in theory, its a different ball game when you have to think fast and decide what to do.

I haven't been following the argument. Numbers simply aren't my thing. I think their point is that comparing two jobs on equally skilled/well geared players, the player with the "job" advantage will come out on top. If I'm wrong, I'm sorry, that's just my take on the situation. Yes thinking and acting fast is part of the game, and someone who can do that on an 'inferior' job will outplay an idiot on a 'good' job. Really jobs are about preference and playstyle. I don't play Dancer because it's better, I play it because I enjoy it, etc. I'm not about to argue that my DNC can outparse any job just because I'm well geared and a skilled player. The facts are, I just can't.

No, you're thinking right. Given equally skilled players, the numbers carry the argument. If you try to bring individual skill sets into this it falls apart because you can make back and forth he sucks she sucks that guy's better arguments when it's a game, written with code, which means the metastate is best and most easily expressed mathematically. So actually, numbers are the only way to argue this because anything else is laughably subjective. Math is fact.

You're entitled to your opinion, but you also have an obligation to acknowledge the facts presented.

Interesting that you bring up ego when we just keep bringing forth points that are actually relevant. Critical analysis is part of what I do for a living, it bleeds into everything else I do as a result. Sue me.

get a ***

mmm, 0/10. I think I broke the troll, sorry guys :(

you sound like a fat lawyer lolz

you can process your numbers all you like, when a DRG can outdamage a DRK with KC/Riddill then il be impressed. Why dont you read the numbers a DRK makes with them babys.

Whoa whoa whoa I leave the thread for a day and it went from 'Average vs Average' to 'KCLUB DRK!!!!!1'11'

I did break the troll, he's talking zerg numbers instead of survivability now. Damn, I get back from lunch and all the entertainment is gone from this thread.

EDIT: Segaia, your numbers for DRK MP efficiency should be averaged rather than summed. Comes to 12.13 HP/MP, making Healing Breath over 6 times as efficient. That alone should be a convincing argument... if you compare MP regeneration to MP consumption it's no contest. Ethereal Earring alone is enough to keep a DRG going, as taking only 167 damage in hits doing more than 33 damage would be enough to regenerate 5 MP. Ares' Cuirass fills the gap if hits are riding that borderline. When Breaths easily heal you for 3x that, it's no contest.

DRK has at most 3 MP/tic solo (Ares Cuirass, Parade Gorget, FoV/Sanction/Sigil Refresh) and Ethereal Earring.

Drain = 21 MP/min
Drain II = 37/3 = 12.3 MP/min
Dread Spikes = 26 MP/min

For a total of 59.3 MP/min. If you wear all of that fulltime, you're just barely maintaining MP and any enfeebles either reduce your total MP pool or come out of Ethereal refresh. If you're soloing in Sea, you're going to run out of MP eventually if Ethereal isn't picking up the slack on your 2MP/tic. And as noted... if you're taking more than 750 damage/minute, you're screwed. AoE, magic, and fast attack rate all destroy a solo DRK/SAM by nullifying Third Eye long before the recast is up.

I'll freely admit it's a decently survivable setup, but it doesn't even come close to DRG's ability to survive.

thats just sag. This thread was like talking to himself anyway without even reading what others say and quoting the stuff he could best reply too. Just an obvious troll