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Spanking of childrens
 Quetzalcoatl.Xueye
Server: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6386
By Quetzalcoatl.Xueye 2011-06-20 10:05:41
Ifrit.Daemun said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Ramuh.Urial said: Yes clearly it's abuse and not the most basic of parental instincts in most species that nurture their children. Clearly Ject is smarter than life it's self.
Shut Up Ject. Please.
We get it your parents spanked you and you don't think they loved you.
My mother's inability to parent (in retrospect) was blatantly obvious, however thankfully I managed to steer myself away from a lot of her bad habits.
Thing about being civil is we learn to do things that aren't exactly in nature, ie: most human rights. Thank you for helping to debunk Xueye's argument. Having a pet does not certify you to be a parent. Having a pet involves feeding, watering and maybe walking and changing out a bed. It isn't anywhere near the same level of involvement and responsibility of a human child. I hope for your (future) children's sake, you open yourself to learning as you raise them.
I never said that you don't learn as you go on.
I said that there are plenty of situations that teach you how to be prepared for a scenario without having done that situation ad nauseam. If the only way you could learn is case by exhaustion then you simply don't know how to learn.
And you must neglect your dogs if you think that's all it takes.
Bahamut.Jetackuu
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9001
By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2011-06-20 10:06:03
Ifrit.Daemun said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Sylph.Systematicchaos said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Sylph.Systematicchaos said: If you aren't spanking your kids you're doing it wrong. To restrict the right to do that is limiting parent's authority. With less to fear, kids act out more and disobey. Moral of the story, spank your kids. If you are spanking your kids, you're abusing them and doing it wrong. I hope you don't have or will ever have children.
Right back at ya buddy. Maybe your kind will die off or change your ways, can't wait for that to happen. Just wish ya'll would hurry.
It's unlikely that the more advanced humans will die off in the direction the world is going (and has been for a long time) but you can keep your misguided hope. Have you not seen WALL-E? That's where we are headed; backwards. The best and the brightest will light the way for the weakest to reproduce and take over.
I've caught parts of it, but never really paid attention, however as to the problem you stated, I've already started thinking of ways to avoid that issue. As it's become apparent that too many stupid people are kept alive.
Been saying for awhile that they need to take warning signs off things and let natural selection work it's magic
as those less advanced dumber people are the one's who typically need to resort to violence when they are unable to parent, it's a win win.
Bahamut.Jetackuu
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9001
By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2011-06-20 10:07:12
Ifrit.Daemun said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said:
I don't have respect for people who abuse their children, and I will not give them it. Right back at ya.
Bahamut.Jetackuu said:
Indeed learning, however abusing them isn't in the lesson plan.
Disciplining children to protect them from hurting themselves in a much more harsh and permanent way is hardly abuse.
Using violence is abuse, regardless of what it may prevent, when there's alternatives.
Asura.Vyre
Forum Moderator
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Posts: 16495
By Asura.Vyre 2011-06-20 10:07:57
Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Asura.Vyre said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Asura.Vyre said: You're wrong. I hope people with thoughts and ideals such as yours disappear over time through evolution of society. I do not respect you, because your beliefs are propped up with psuedo science and malice. People who categorize others through inaccurate hypothesises, as well as base their worldview on such things do not deserve respect. They deserve pity and mental assistance. I think the same about most of you, so feel free to feel that way, more civilized societies than this one beg to agree with me. If by more civilized you mean they adhere themselves to more rules, then yes, perhaps they do. Perhaps they don't. If you're thinking about it in any other way, then they are not. They just have a different set of rules to go by. All 29 or so of them. Out of 195. I'm curious as to how they enforce the law they make about spanking. Constant surveillance in people's private lives? That would be the only reliable way to do it. I'm also curious as to whether or not the people of each of those 29 countries actually put it to a true democratic vote. For some reason I doubt that they did. There's a logical flaw in a pure democracy, hence why we don't have one. most of those 29 are some of the mot advanced nations in the world and are best known for improved human rights, so far that they put America's to shame. Even if the law isn't 100% enforcable, the fact that it's on the books and that they have the mindset for it, is enough to start with, because the mindset that it's okay to abuse children is what needs to stop. Present me with a list of all 29 of them.
Quetzalcoatl.Xueye
Server: Quetzalcoatl
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Posts: 6386
By Quetzalcoatl.Xueye 2011-06-20 10:09:08
The lawyer in me would like for us to first agree on the definitions of "abuse" and "violence". I do not think the argument can proceed much further if we cannot agree on those two terms.
Bahamut.Jetackuu
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9001
By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2011-06-20 10:09:10
Asura.Vyre said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Asura.Vyre said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Asura.Vyre said: You're wrong. I hope people with thoughts and ideals such as yours disappear over time through evolution of society. I do not respect you, because your beliefs are propped up with psuedo science and malice. People who categorize others through inaccurate hypothesises, as well as base their worldview on such things do not deserve respect. They deserve pity and mental assistance. I think the same about most of you, so feel free to feel that way, more civilized societies than this one beg to agree with me. If by more civilized you mean they adhere themselves to more rules, then yes, perhaps they do. Perhaps they don't. If you're thinking about it in any other way, then they are not. They just have a different set of rules to go by. All 29 or so of them. Out of 195. I'm curious as to how they enforce the law they make about spanking. Constant surveillance in people's private lives? That would be the only reliable way to do it. I'm also curious as to whether or not the people of each of those 29 countries actually put it to a true democratic vote. For some reason I doubt that they did. There's a logical flaw in a pure democracy, hence why we don't have one. most of those 29 are some of the mot advanced nations in the world and are best known for improved human rights, so far that they put America's to shame. Even if the law isn't 100% enforcable, the fact that it's on the books and that they have the mindset for it, is enough to start with, because the mindset that it's okay to abuse children is what needs to stop. Present me with a list of all 29 of them.
It's in the last thread of this sort, I don't have time to look it up now, I gotta go do my part in making babies :P
(girlfriend is calling..)
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Ifrit.Daemun
Server: Ifrit
Game: FFXI
Posts: 955
By Ifrit.Daemun 2011-06-20 10:09:30
Quetzalcoatl.Xueye said:
I never said that you don't learn as you go on.
I said that there are plenty of situations that teach you how to be prepared for a scenario without having done that situation ad nauseam. If the only way you could learn is case by exhaustion then you simply don't know how to learn.
And you must neglect your dogs if you think that's all it takes.
I have cats, but I know it takes more to have quality lives for your pets. I'm just saying that in most instances, just keeping your pets alive has no detriment on society. The same can't be said about children.
(I said most cases, don't give the neglected pitbull scenario, I know it happens often)
Ramuh.Urial
Server: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 31068
By Ramuh.Urial 2011-06-20 10:10:01
Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Asura.Vyre said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Asura.Vyre said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Asura.Vyre said: You're wrong. I hope people with thoughts and ideals such as yours disappear over time through evolution of society. I do not respect you, because your beliefs are propped up with psuedo science and malice. People who categorize others through inaccurate hypothesises, as well as base their worldview on such things do not deserve respect. They deserve pity and mental assistance. I think the same about most of you, so feel free to feel that way, more civilized societies than this one beg to agree with me. If by more civilized you mean they adhere themselves to more rules, then yes, perhaps they do. Perhaps they don't. If you're thinking about it in any other way, then they are not. They just have a different set of rules to go by. All 29 or so of them. Out of 195. I'm curious as to how they enforce the law they make about spanking. Constant surveillance in people's private lives? That would be the only reliable way to do it. I'm also curious as to whether or not the people of each of those 29 countries actually put it to a true democratic vote. For some reason I doubt that they did. There's a logical flaw in a pure democracy, hence why we don't have one. most of those 29 are some of the mot advanced nations in the world and are best known for improved human rights, so far that they put America's to shame. Even if the law isn't 100% enforcable, the fact that it's on the books and that they have the mindset for it, is enough to start with, because the mindset that it's okay to abuse children is what needs to stop. Present me with a list of all 29 of them.
It's in the last thread of this sort, I don't have time to look it up now, I gotta go do my part in making babies :P
(hand is calling..) ftfy
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Ifrit.Daemun
Server: Ifrit
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Posts: 955
By Ifrit.Daemun 2011-06-20 10:11:02
Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Ifrit.Daemun said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said:
I don't have respect for people who abuse their children, and I will not give them it. Right back at ya.
Bahamut.Jetackuu said:
Indeed learning, however abusing them isn't in the lesson plan.
Disciplining children to protect them from hurting themselves in a much more harsh and permanent way is hardly abuse.
Using violence is abuse, regardless of what it may prevent, when there's alternatives. Discipline (not abuse), is utilizing what methods work. In some scenarios, only spanking works. This would mean there are no other viable alternatives.
Bahamut.Jetackuu
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9001
By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2011-06-20 10:11:20
Ramuh.Urial said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Asura.Vyre said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Asura.Vyre said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Asura.Vyre said: You're wrong. I hope people with thoughts and ideals such as yours disappear over time through evolution of society. I do not respect you, because your beliefs are propped up with psuedo science and malice. People who categorize others through inaccurate hypothesises, as well as base their worldview on such things do not deserve respect. They deserve pity and mental assistance. I think the same about most of you, so feel free to feel that way, more civilized societies than this one beg to agree with me. If by more civilized you mean they adhere themselves to more rules, then yes, perhaps they do. Perhaps they don't. If you're thinking about it in any other way, then they are not. They just have a different set of rules to go by. All 29 or so of them. Out of 195. I'm curious as to how they enforce the law they make about spanking. Constant surveillance in people's private lives? That would be the only reliable way to do it. I'm also curious as to whether or not the people of each of those 29 countries actually put it to a true democratic vote. For some reason I doubt that they did. There's a logical flaw in a pure democracy, hence why we don't have one. most of those 29 are some of the mot advanced nations in the world and are best known for improved human rights, so far that they put America's to shame. Even if the law isn't 100% enforcable, the fact that it's on the books and that they have the mindset for it, is enough to start with, because the mindset that it's okay to abuse children is what needs to stop. Present me with a list of all 29 of them.
It's in the last thread of this sort, I don't have time to look it up now, I gotta go do my part in making babies :P
( http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Bahamut/Tyffanie is calling..) \ no, ftfy
Ifrit.Daemun
Server: Ifrit
Game: FFXI
Posts: 955
By Ifrit.Daemun 2011-06-20 10:11:34
Ramuh.Urial said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Asura.Vyre said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Asura.Vyre said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Asura.Vyre said: You're wrong. I hope people with thoughts and ideals such as yours disappear over time through evolution of society. I do not respect you, because your beliefs are propped up with psuedo science and malice. People who categorize others through inaccurate hypothesises, as well as base their worldview on such things do not deserve respect. They deserve pity and mental assistance. I think the same about most of you, so feel free to feel that way, more civilized societies than this one beg to agree with me. If by more civilized you mean they adhere themselves to more rules, then yes, perhaps they do. Perhaps they don't. If you're thinking about it in any other way, then they are not. They just have a different set of rules to go by. All 29 or so of them. Out of 195. I'm curious as to how they enforce the law they make about spanking. Constant surveillance in people's private lives? That would be the only reliable way to do it. I'm also curious as to whether or not the people of each of those 29 countries actually put it to a true democratic vote. For some reason I doubt that they did. There's a logical flaw in a pure democracy, hence why we don't have one. most of those 29 are some of the mot advanced nations in the world and are best known for improved human rights, so far that they put America's to shame. Even if the law isn't 100% enforcable, the fact that it's on the books and that they have the mindset for it, is enough to start with, because the mindset that it's okay to abuse children is what needs to stop. Present me with a list of all 29 of them.
It's in the last thread of this sort, I don't have time to look it up now, I gotta go do my part in making babies :P
(hand is calling..) ftfy So Jet is asexual?
Bahamut.Jetackuu
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9001
By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2011-06-20 10:12:26
Ifrit.Daemun said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Ifrit.Daemun said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said:
I don't have respect for people who abuse their children, and I will not give them it. Right back at ya.
Bahamut.Jetackuu said:
Indeed learning, however abusing them isn't in the lesson plan.
Disciplining children to protect them from hurting themselves in a much more harsh and permanent way is hardly abuse.
Using violence is abuse, regardless of what it may prevent, when there's alternatives. Discipline (not abuse), is utilizing what methods work. In some scenarios, only spanking works. This would mean there are no other viable alternatives.
even some forms of discipline are abuse, if you end up in a situation as to where only abuse works then you're doing it wrong.
Ifrit.Daemun
Server: Ifrit
Game: FFXI
Posts: 955
By Ifrit.Daemun 2011-06-20 10:12:40
Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Ramuh.Urial said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Asura.Vyre said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Asura.Vyre said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Asura.Vyre said: You're wrong. I hope people with thoughts and ideals such as yours disappear over time through evolution of society. I do not respect you, because your beliefs are propped up with psuedo science and malice. People who categorize others through inaccurate hypothesises, as well as base their worldview on such things do not deserve respect. They deserve pity and mental assistance. I think the same about most of you, so feel free to feel that way, more civilized societies than this one beg to agree with me. If by more civilized you mean they adhere themselves to more rules, then yes, perhaps they do. Perhaps they don't. If you're thinking about it in any other way, then they are not. They just have a different set of rules to go by. All 29 or so of them. Out of 195. I'm curious as to how they enforce the law they make about spanking. Constant surveillance in people's private lives? That would be the only reliable way to do it. I'm also curious as to whether or not the people of each of those 29 countries actually put it to a true democratic vote. For some reason I doubt that they did. There's a logical flaw in a pure democracy, hence why we don't have one. most of those 29 are some of the mot advanced nations in the world and are best known for improved human rights, so far that they put America's to shame. Even if the law isn't 100% enforcable, the fact that it's on the books and that they have the mindset for it, is enough to start with, because the mindset that it's okay to abuse children is what needs to stop. Present me with a list of all 29 of them.
It's in the last thread of this sort, I don't have time to look it up now, I gotta go do my part in making babies :P
( http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Bahamut/Tyffanie is calling..) \ no, ftfy Dusting off the trusty ol' "Pics or it didn't happen"
Bahamut.Jetackuu
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9001
By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2011-06-20 10:14:34
Ifrit.Daemun said:
Dusting off the trusty ol' "Pics or it didn't happen"
can't post that on here...
oh you mean her...
hold on
Asura.Vyre
Forum Moderator
Server: Asura
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Posts: 16495
By Asura.Vyre 2011-06-20 10:21:23
Wikied the list. Found it. Interestingly enough, most of the countries that "outlaw" corporeal punishment in the home by parents have varying penalties. Some of them don't even punish the parent if they didn't enter what qualifies as Assault. Clearly, even in these so called more civilized and advanced nations the shade of the matter is still grey. Most of them are in Europe. Then there's Israel, Costa Rica, and a few other places spread out.
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Cerberus.Rayik
Server: Cerberus
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Posts: 924
By Cerberus.Rayik 2011-06-20 10:23:53
Bahamut.Jetackuu said:
I don't have respect for people who abuse their children, and I will not give them it. Right back at ya.
What amazes me, flat out flabbergasts me, is that you have any kind of opinion that you think anyone is going to take from you with more than a grain of salt, given your obvious expertise of A.) not having a child and B.) living out of yo' mama's basement. And that you have the complex of thinking you are superior to anyone by A.) trolling a MMORPG forum from (again) B.) yo' mama's basement.
Please, oh master, tell me how I can be more superior like you.
If anything, you're a lesson on how not to have your kids end up.
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Bahamut.Jetackuu
Server: Bahamut
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Posts: 9001
By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2011-06-20 10:25:41
When I let her take a picture of me, I may link one of us both, perhaps.
Bahamut.Jetackuu
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9001
By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2011-06-20 10:27:42
Cerberus.Rayik said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said:
I don't have respect for people who abuse their children, and I will not give them it. Right back at ya.
What amazes me, flat out flabbergasts me, is that you have any kind of opinion that you think anyone is going to take from you with more than a grain of salt, given your obvious expertise of A.) not having a child and B.) living out of yo' mama's basement. And that you have the complex of thinking you are superior to anyone by A.) trolling a MMORPG forum from (again) B.) yo' mama's basement.
Please, oh master, tell me how I can be more superior like you.
If anything, you're a lesson on how not to have your kids end up.
A. bad argument as previously stated.
B. not even true, and I'm not superior to everyone, nor do I claim to be.
As for your a. I don't troll
b. again not true...
how about first you try to get your facts straight and not use bad arguments
Server: Shiva
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Posts: 23653
By Shiva.Flionheart 2011-06-20 10:29:09
lol
just lol
Bahamut.Jetackuu
Server: Bahamut
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Posts: 9001
By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2011-06-20 10:29:17
Asura.Vyre said: Wikied the list. Found it. Interestingly enough, most of the countries that "outlaw" corporeal punishment in the home by parents have varying penalties. Some of them don't even punish the parent if they didn't enter what qualifies as Assault. Clearly, even in these so called more civilized and advanced nations the shade of the matter is still grey. Most of them are in Europe. Then there's Israel, Costa Rica, and a few other places spread out.
Like I said earlier, the punishment isn't as important as the general idea of that it's not accepted behavior, once that's across we can worry about the penalties.
As it is now, (here anyway) it wouldn't be anywhere near possible to penalize all the child abuse cases, sadly that's just how it is.
Cerberus.Rayik
Server: Cerberus
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Posts: 924
By Cerberus.Rayik 2011-06-20 10:29:36
Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Cerberus.Rayik said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said:
I don't have respect for people who abuse their children, and I will not give them it. Right back at ya.
What amazes me, flat out flabbergasts me, is that you have any kind of opinion that you think anyone is going to take from you with more than a grain of salt, given your obvious expertise of A.) not having a child and B.) living out of yo' mama's basement. And that you have the complex of thinking you are superior to anyone by A.) trolling a MMORPG forum from (again) B.) yo' mama's basement.
Please, oh master, tell me how I can be more superior like you.
If anything, you're a lesson on how not to have your kids end up.
A. bad argument as previously stated.
B. not even true, and I'm not superior to everyone, nor do I claim to be.
As for your a. I don't troll
b. again not true...
how about first you try to get your facts straight and not use bad arguments You don't have to, so why should I?
Bismarck.Punchus
Server: Bismarck
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By Bismarck.Punchus 2011-06-20 10:30:22
Every Child NEEDS to have the 4 key *** whoopins.
The Lieing, Cheating, Stealing and Back-talking *** whoopins.
Growing up without those beatings only causes kids to grow up to be deliquent punks.
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Ifrit.Daemun
Server: Ifrit
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Posts: 955
By Ifrit.Daemun 2011-06-20 10:31:15
Bahamut.Jetackuu said:
When I let her take a picture of me, I may link one of us both, perhaps. You've already done better than most people on here who claim to have a 'girlfriend'. Congrats on finding someone who would like a person that is nerdy enough to a) play ffxi and b) argue on its forum
My wife hates both aspects of this in my life.
Ifrit.Daemun
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By Ifrit.Daemun 2011-06-20 10:32:32
Bismarck.Punchus said: Every Child NEEDS to have the 4 key *** whoopins.
The Lieing, Cheating, Stealing and Back-talking *** whoopins.
Growing up without those beatings only causes kids to grow up to be deliquent punks. I approve of this message. Watch Springer or Cops for a week and you'll know the bolded to be true.
[+]
Asura.Vyre
Forum Moderator
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By Asura.Vyre 2011-06-20 10:33:37
Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Asura.Vyre said: Wikied the list. Found it. Interestingly enough, most of the countries that "outlaw" corporeal punishment in the home by parents have varying penalties. Some of them don't even punish the parent if they didn't enter what qualifies as Assault. Clearly, even in these so called more civilized and advanced nations the shade of the matter is still grey. Most of them are in Europe. Then there's Israel, Costa Rica, and a few other places spread out. Like I said earlier, the punishment isn't as important as the general idea of that it's not accepted behavior, once that's across we can worry about the penalties. As it is now, (here anyway) it wouldn't be anywhere near possible to penalize all the child abuse cases, sadly that's just how it is. I think the fact that it's still a grey area in those countries says that there is a difference between child abusea and corporeal punishment. They just have no way to actually enforce it without violating people's privacy/rights. I wonder if they aren't so much as seeing if such a law can be effective, so much as they are actually not tolerating the act.
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By Sylph.Systematicchaos 2011-06-20 10:34:49
Bahamut.Jetackuu said: When I let her take a picture of me, I may link one of us both, perhaps.
Make sure you're smoking a cigar and wearing a Burger King hat.
By Bimbam 2011-06-20 10:35:00
Chuck Norris' mother spanked him once...
Once.
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Carbuncle.Khaleb
Server: Carbuncle
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Posts: 14
By Carbuncle.Khaleb 2011-06-20 10:35:41
there is a time and place for it. i have a friend and growing up he had 7 brothers and 2 sisters. if the parents didnt spank and have structure that house got out of control.
really spanking is the least of a kids problems growing up.
Bahamut.Jetackuu
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9001
By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2011-06-20 10:42:58
Ifrit.Daemun said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said:
When I let her take a picture of me, I may link one of us both, perhaps. You've already done better than most people on here who claim to have a 'girlfriend'. Congrats on finding someone who would like a person that is nerdy enough to a) play ffxi and b) argue on its forum
My wife hates both aspects of this in my life.
I keep trying to get her to play, but she rage quits easily, she had issues finding the ebassy in jeuno...
our schedules are mostly to blame for the lack of that though.
As for the arguing, she loves my ego, go figure...
Bahamut.Jetackuu
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Posts: 9001
By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2011-06-20 10:45:00
Ifrit.Daemun said: Bismarck.Punchus said: Every Child NEEDS to have the 4 key *** whoopins.
The Lieing, Cheating, Stealing and Back-talking *** whoopins.
Growing up without those beatings only causes kids to grow up to be deliquent punks. I approve of this message. Watch Springer or Cops for a week and you'll know the bolded to be true.
Most of the people I've seen on either had more than enough beatings (by your standards), their parents just failed at raising them properly.
Asura.Vyre said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Asura.Vyre said: Wikied the list. Found it. Interestingly enough, most of the countries that "outlaw" corporeal punishment in the home by parents have varying penalties. Some of them don't even punish the parent if they didn't enter what qualifies as Assault. Clearly, even in these so called more civilized and advanced nations the shade of the matter is still grey. Most of them are in Europe. Then there's Israel, Costa Rica, and a few other places spread out. Like I said earlier, the punishment isn't as important as the general idea of that it's not accepted behavior, once that's across we can worry about the penalties. As it is now, (here anyway) it wouldn't be anywhere near possible to penalize all the child abuse cases, sadly that's just how it is. I think the fact that it's still a grey area in those countries says that there is a difference between child abusea and corporeal punishment. They just have no way to actually enforce it without violating people's privacy/rights. I wonder if they aren't so much as seeing if such a law can be effective, so much as they are actually not tolerating the act.
perhaps, it's definitely not an old idea, it's new and I except it to come with a lot of criticism.
So, was having this debate on whether spanking is still an applicable technique or not in these times on facebook and wanted to drop in and see what XI thought on the matter.
Always
Sometimes
Only when you really feel its necessary
Never
Or anything in between.
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