PUP Merits

What is the general consensus for group 1/2 and why?

melee magic+5 each optimization 5/5 and fine tuning 5/5 is what i did. the enmity doesn't seem to do much, and HP swapc an be useful, but bah.

The other popular option is

Group 1:
Automaton Melee 5/5
Automaton Magic 5/5

Group 2:
Optimization 5/5
Fine-Tuning 3/5
Role Reversal 1/5
Ventriloquy 1/5

Reasoning: Group 1 is fairly standard. Melee benefits all frames, and magic skill+ is useful for learning spells early and a little more macc.

Group 2 is built to provide higher damage and survivability. Fine-tuning is less useful than Optimization, so that's why many people opt to put 3 or 4 merits into that, then 1/1 into Vent and/or RR to keep yourself alive. We all know if you're geared properly you're going to take hate (in exp anyway) with Stringing Pummel EASILY. With Deus Ex Automata it really doesn't matter if our Automaton dies now, so feel free to shed enmity to it and eat its HP as often as you would like.

for the why :
- Melee 5 because it will help all frame to tp
- Magic 5 because magic acc rules
- Ranged 0 because its very situational
- Activate Recast 0 because of Deus Ex Automata
- Repair Recast 0 for the same reason and because the recast is short enough

- Role Reversal 0 or 1. Actually i desagree with Rinnsi here, this ja can save your automaton but it can save you too, i suggest 1 merit in it (dont need more)
- Ventriloquy 0 because not really usefull. It can help, but there is no situation where you will need it (ya ya i know some ppl who merited it will come and say how much im wrong)
- Optimization 5 because dmg rox
- Fine-Tuning 4 or 5 (depend of how many merit you can still use for this) because acc/magic defense are always good

last i heard vent was broken, did they fix it?

I put 5 into both Magic (most important IMO) and ranged for group 1 merits.

For group 2, I put 1 into Role Reversal just in case my Blm puppet takes damage before I deactivate him after he nukes. And in the case that he gets hit and takes damage, I put 1 merit into Ventriloquy to get it off my pet asap.

As for the other 2 things in group 2, I put 5 merits into Optimization (The magic attack bonus is very well worth it) and I just filled the rest of the merits into Fine-tuning since you can't go wrong with the boosts it gives.

It's not really worth putting any more than 1 merit into the abilities (Role reversal and Ventriloquy) since you will very rarely need them.

Ventriloquy has many uses, anyone who plays PUP should know this.
It's definitely worth dumping 1 merit in.

lol "many uses", like what ?


Its not because you spam the ja that you need to to it.

its a decent option if you are using blm auto, and for whatever reason your deactivate is not up yet, it can save your butt, and not have to burn time repairing and healing from deus ex, to get your auto to full again for full mp.

I use vent alot but then im a solo pup moreo then a pt pup. It's very useful when you are solo'n. Especially if you need to lose something. Sadly alot of people dont know why you would dump 1 merit into it.

I didnt say that this ja didnt have any use, i said its not worth.


The situation you gave us is a perfect example of very situational use of this ja. If you have to nuke and if you deactivate timer is not ready... its because you did a mistake at first.


Actually its the only real use for this ja imo but its a bit meh to waste 1 merit on it. And here again you dont *need* it.

This ja was maybe usefull lev 75, but not anymore.

5 melee
5 magic
5 optimization
3 fine tuning
1 RR
1 vent

this.

don't listen the the guy saying vent isn't need.

it's one stingy merit,there is NO reason not to have it.

was doing dom ops in altep once and was about 20 yalms away when pet pulled hate and the mob(a doll) tp moved instantly using that move where their arms fly off and hit pup.no chance to deactivate so i used.....wait for it...VENT.

vent sure beats screaming at the mob saying "leave my pup alone you bully or ima tell feiwong"

cant you use vent in a party/big fight situation like jump for drg? like if you have to much hate you can give it to the pet, let it die, then deus it back up again and you have no hate and nor will your newly called pet. idk just a thought.

Suck less and you wont need vent.




No because vent doesnt remove your hate, it switch it with the hate of your automaton, so you will maybe have less hate but that all.

Of course, you did 75 level w/o it but now you cant live w/o it.
The truth is that ppl who need this ja are too lazy to buy some oils and use repair when they should.


An other Spicyryan is born lol.
But more seriously, there is no need to aggro ppl just because they dont do the same thing that you >_>

this^

I use it as defense tool along side RR, depoping unwanted mops or manipulating hate between master and pet to take advantage of regen/repair etc, I usually solo mops/NMs without whm bot, just me and Valor or Sharpshot and its gotten better with Buratt.

Ventriloquy is an Altana's gift.


someone got agg? -> hit the nm/mob, ventriloquy, deactivate, done.

someone got agg? -> range attack or magic attack -> deactivate. (kk no vent needed...)

exp pt grabbing hate? -> ventriloquy, let pet die.

need retrigger on NM and ppl need to flux? -> wait till all flux, ventriloquy/deactivate, and reclaim.

someone pissing u off? -> grab nm, run to them, ventriloquy/deactivate and MPK there u go.



1 Merit well spend.

I like how ppl argument on vent with a ton of "i use this way so its usefull", when you can do the same thing in 99% of situation, w/o it.


I wonder which kind of nm you can do like that (btw if its to skill up, you can do it on crabs in vunkerl [ S])

Can do the same thing w/o vent, make your automaton hit a mob (or flash it), desactivate and same result.


Like you said...


Or do something more usefull : use RR when needed and repair

or let the blm (/blm) stun or the rdm (/rdm) gravity it, and same result


Ok here you got me. brb meriting vent xD

Most are saying:

5/5 Melee Skill
5/5 Magic Skill

5/5 Optimization
3/5 Fine Tuning
1/5 Role Reversal
1/5 Ventriloquy

This has basically been the standard for a long time. However, I don't really agree with the Melee merits. They aren't bad, matter of preference really. They used to be pretty useful, not as much anymore, but I've always preferred the Ranged merits 5/5 for more accuracy to better suit Drum Magazine and Armor Piercer. Furthermore, as the game is currently (90 Cap), if you have the pleasure or getting a pair of Burattinaios, TPing for an automaton is a thing of the past. These H2H give a 10/tic regain to your robot, which is faster than even the master can TP, nearly negating the need for melee hits. Additionally, by this logic, there is no longer a need for RNG robots to be anywhere near AoE ranges and still allows them to be very effective. Again, matter of opinion, but I feel like Ranged merits will benefit you far more, and there really is no contest if you have Burattinaios. Lastly, on the subject of these H2H, get them if you don't have them. There isn't so large a gap between them and Verethragna/Kenkonken if you play PUP properly.

difference is though is that resetting your hate by shedding it to pet and letting it die/deactivate. Hate will go back to original tank, giving better control of fights, specially NM. Role Reversal / Repair won't get u rid of hate.



difference here is that u are ready next to the NM to reclaim, not at another flux. Also no need to be near a flux at all, making it less easy for ppl to steal your nm.


^^ like i said, well worth the 1 merit :P

To me its look like this"I dont use Vent anymore, therefor, whoever may still use it must be an idiot or just suck" .
Meant depoping enemies where you also have hate on them, afaik you need Vent to do that, I don't know why you assumed any other situation.
why do you assume so much :O, never said anything about skill up but thanks I guess >.>.
the NM was (checking wiki...5 mins later..) Aggressor Antlion, I was trying pet tanking instead of master tanking with whm bot when I saw he can apply various status effect on you (this is before Buratt), the pet tho took too much dmg I had to use Vent to bounce hate around so both of us can survive longer but more importantly to take advantage of Regen Atmas.
The idea was since both pet and master share the same Atma buff, when it comes to regen Atmas having either the master or pet at full HP well diminish its value, here Vent comes into play, safely switching hate between master and pet, will effectively double the regen value by having both of them sharing damage and not staying at full HP.

I agree though, Vent is not as useful as before, and I can see someone playing without it, I believe the main reason why it became less useful, its because it used mostly to save the puppet butt, back with 20 mins Activate timer pet life was more precious! now with DEA its not the case anymore no one care if pet pulled hate, we just let it die and call a new one, this technically makes DEA act as a one way Vent ability (Hate:pet--->master)on a 1 min recast whenever the pet dies lol.

What? The acc boost on all WS is so high that you always have capped acc on AP. Why use drum magazine anyway when you could be using turbo charger (in which case you want regular melee skill)? Face it, your rng pet just won't shoot often enough for this to be worthwhile. Not to mention EVERY frame uses melee skill. I guess that if you ONLY use your rng pet and you NEVER deploy it in melee range, your merits are justified, but that's highly unlikely.

Besides, you'll be missing that melee skill when we get this new multi-crit hit WS for valoredge. Stick with 5/5 melee skill and 0/5 ranged. Merits haven't changed since 75 for a reason.

New WSs sound pointless, we'll still need to trigger with a specific maneuver and because of that we never stop sacrificing what we could be using to be more efficient. I did 5/5 Magic Skill and 5/5 Ranged.

The new weapon skill for valoredge is Crit if you read the topic they posted :o Hai2uAtmas.

First off, Melee doesn't suffer some insurmountable ACC penalty to need them in the first place. Mostly, it's just the argument of "Where else would I put them?". On the other hand, Drum Magazine, which gives a HUGE, HUGE, HUGE, increase to the ranged DPS (A 40% increase in ranged attacks with 3 wind up) and CLEARLY lowers your RACC, as it even says so. For various other reasons already stated, Burattinaios needs to be a staple of every good PUP. It's not a ridiculous notion that automaton meleeing was primarily only for TP gain. If you care about it so very dearly, go feed the mob more TP to prove your point, I don't care. I'd rather have my robot sit back and fire off an arrow every 12 seconds instead of 20, the mob TP ME less, and WS all the same because I'm giving him a 10/tic regain. The reason YOUR merits haven't changed since 75 is because of a rudimentary line of thinking.

Any arguments about unpatched, UNTESTED content also have no place in this argument. If String Shredder comes out and suddenly makes valoredge worth a ***at dealing damage, then obviously, being a responsible player, I may consider changing my merits. Assuming I, at that point, even begin to see ACC issues.

EDIT: The new Ranged WS, Armor Shatterer is, fourfold. The Melee, String Shredder, is two. Still keeping 5/5 Ranged merits.

I actualy think that lev 90+ we have enough melee skill for the ranged merits (im waiting to see the new WS to see if i change or not my merits) and i usualy try to have an unbiased perspective but i dont understand the logic here, maybe you can explain me 2-3 things.

If a Drum Magazine increase your ranged DPS, it will in the same time gimp your melee DPS. Its ok, since the dmg of the ranged att is better that the dmg of the melee attack.
The thing i dont understand is the "A 40% increase in ranged attacks with 3 wind up". Why 3 winds ? (im asking this outside the melee or not situation cause i saw some pups do the same thing while their automaton melee)
3 wind mean no thunder, so no melee acc, no DA, no critical boost (w/o talk about the time to set a fire and a dark to WS, and then 2 new winds to back on the tp mode). That also mean no light/fire (for ppl who want to boost the Optic Fiber or the att attachments). Also when i see how much i miss mobs lev 60ish with the Drum Magazine, i cant imagine that +10 in ranged skill can compensate the acc/ranged acc lost.
This way, you are gimping a lot your overall DPS.
On the other hand, if you use less that 3 winds, the advantage of the Drum Magazine will start to suck and you will lost the interet to use it.

Also if you got 100 tp quickly with Burattinaios w/o melee, should not it be faster if your automaton melee ?
Someone talked about the tp gain for the mob, but if you tp faster, the mob will die faster too, so at the end it will not do more tp move ? (except NMs of course which have a lot more HP that normal mobs, so which have the time to do more tp move)

Last thing about the new WSs to choose or not a merit, atm we have Armor Piercer (1 hit) and Bone Crusher (3 hits). If i follow your logic, i should go with melee merits since Bone Crusher is a multi hit, but we all know how this WS sucks lol, how can you say you have the good or the wrong merit at 5 days to see if the news WS will be good or not ?

Again, i'm not trying to say you are wrong or anything like that, i just want to understand your way to play and maybe correct my way if you can convince me. And please forgive my english which is not great in normal time, and worse at 2:00 AM xD

I wasn't completely suggesting three of three wind maneuvers. Merely stating how not useless drum magazine in fact is. I do in fact use all of the maneuvers you suggested and mostlyfor the same reasons. I don't however enjoy my automaton meleeing in most instances, for several reasons. Also, no I would not want my robot meleeing if he could ws regardless every 30. An automatons melee dmg is pretty lackluster and they lack a decent subtle blow. It isn't a good practice to have him chopping away and feeding the mob tp. Lastly, as you have admitted to having poor English, the argument about how many hits a ws is, and mostly my whole post is laden with sarcasm. I mean that, all joking aside. Basically there is no legitimate reason to merit melee skill where ranged skill clearly suffers from accuracy in most cases.