Random Thoughts.....What Are You Thinking?

If I go out of my house and accidentally step on dog ***, it's DEI's fault. Those diversity hires are too lazy to clean the street!

Reading Afania talking about dogs makes me.feel annoyed somehow

Don't piss and ***on the street then maybe I'll be nicer to dogs. ;)

lmaooo - can't help yourself can you?

anyone that supports DEI in STEM and other important jobs is A) a virtue signalling loser thirsting for likes online from strangers or B) a cringe loser, that is utterly garbage at their job and doesn't want competent people competing with them for promotions.

It's not that deep, just funny reading this pop up for every topic on the internet lol

C) has been through the university brainwashing process and isn't enough of an independent thinker to question anything they are told

D) is a woman or POC and personally benefits from keeping the policies in place

E) just wants to see the world burn

Plenty of college and university systems now require all students to take a DEI course to graduate. The course refers back to McKinsey nonsense, such as this:
https://www.mckinsey.com/featured-insights/mckinsey-explainers/what-is-diversity-equity-and-inclusion

DEI is pitched as improving business outcomes based on studies that were funded to create that result. McKinsey is a government advisor, and is likely working to try to decrease racial tensions to make a more cohesive society. Whether the benefits to society outweigh the losses in production is tough to measure, and a reasonable argument can be made in favor of DEI from a societal standpoint.

I would say that DEI is probably a component when looking at the ground we've lost to China. But, the practice of school systems working for the lowest common denominator doesn't help. People who might have grown up to be some of our best talent are stuck progressing at the same rate as 75 IQ kids that belong in a factory and foreigners who lack the English skills to proceed at an appropriate pace. China isn't holding back the smart kids to help English immigrants learn Mandarin or prop up the developmentally disabled.

you two are being way too political for this thread, lol.

I expect this from new posters but come on you two.
Subtle and tact or gtfo, I dont want this thread locked too like all the other ones you two populated back then

I am not sure why posting some updates about AI industry development is considered "political" tbh, I was mostly discussing AI industry trends. It's political because I referenced the term "dei" in the post?

China is in fact, supplying the talent US needs in the field of AI back in 2010. Tons of Chinese AI talents went to the US for masters and PHD, then stayed in the US for work after they graduate because US tech industry paid better. Though a number of Chinese researchers eventually went back to China to contribute in their country post Pandemic. That could be the reason why China catch up post Pandemic.

Just Google Fei-Fei Li, who was responsible for a couple of breakthrough in the field of AI. There are plenty of top Chinese AI researchers like her working in the US and contributing.

Ironically she is also PoC and woman lol. That's some DEI advantage for the US.... despite most AI talents came from China the US also siphoned most of them and made them work for the US company.

If you only focus on politics when you discuss the development of an industry and ignore the rest of the area, it's easy to miss the big picture.

They wouldn't close the thread Josey, they would just topicban RA again.

I mean, blaming just DEI for the issues of the USA seems a little disingenuous. The list of policies that brought you to the bottom of world rankings in multiple categories, is really, really, really long.

This conversation reminds me of Germany in the 1940's and how amazing yet terrifying the medical advancements were for the decade due to the unbridled study and research without considering any human rights concerns etc

And finding out where on the spectrum does a respective culture currently land between that and a modern standard of inclusion and human rights prioritization.

I can't comment firsthand on Chinese education, but my impression is that there is a much more meritocratic system. Most undergrad in America is basically just daycare. Inner-city high schools in my state have a minimum-50% policy(you cannot receive a grade under 50% even if you don't do the assignment or show up for school) and grant a pass for an overall average of 60%. Despite this, we're considered a top 10 state for education.

Efforts to prop up underperformers in the name of equity have resulted in the erosion of merit from the majority of our universities and nearly all public schools. Thus, it's not surprising that people who transfer from China are more successful than our population. They were actually taught during childhood and undergrad.

Equity-based hiring policies don't actually increase hiring of high-performing eastern Asians either, for what it's worth. Because they are more likely to overperform in most fields, they are already overrepresented. Instead, they receive some of the same 'reverse' discrimination that White Americans may face. Efforts to include races that underperform cost them jobs when they face off against those races in the marketplace.

Of course, diversity and inclusion are both good things and I think many people miss that in the context of hating on DEI. Including different viewpoints is valuable, and so is ensuring that everyone is treated with respect and feels comfortable at work. However, I don't believe we are going about that in the correct way right now.

Equity is harmful because affirmative action perpetuates itself. Kids get into schools they shouldn't, because the need to incorporate minorities lowers entrance standards. They graduate while underperforming because lower minority graduation rates would reflect poorly on the school. They get hired to fill a diversity checkbox, even if their paper credentials are comparable to the competition and their skills aren't in the same ballpark. Observing this basic truth leads to questions about whether someone earned their job or was just a 'DEI hire'; this does no favors to the minorities who have worked their way up on merit nor the ones sitting in a role they can't adequately perform.

I think the reason the conversation gets tiring is because detractors speak an absolutes without actually discussing the nuances surrounding 'DEI' - so kudos for at least pointing some of it out.

I think when the DEI process is too focused on the equality of outcome vs equality of opportunity, it's going to fail everyone - per your example. You can't leapfrog a poor educational foundation, or quality access to certain fields of interest (STEM for example), then on the back end mandate specific hiring practices to make up for it - it's too late.

I think it's doing some good when done right, and doing some harm when done poorly. I'm not a DEI fanatic by any means. That said the continuous pointing to any perceived failure and saying DEI was completely and absolutely the cause, is silly.

What does "meritocratic system" mean? Do you mean a system that filter out people with lower IQ and promote smartest STEM student?

I guess China, South Korea and Taiwan all fall into these category in terms of education. I've heard that it's also pretty competitive in India.

But having a competitive education system isn't enough to take a lead in the AI industry. China also strongly focus on AI industry development. They have thousands of undergrad course that's AI focused. And you can see it from the AI talent pool result.

Despite Korea education system is also competitive they only supplied 2% of AI talents in the world, that isn't close to China. And AI software industry literally doesn't exist in Taiwan, because all the best STEM students in Taiwan work on hardware engineering and semiconductor not software.

So I wouldn't say having tons of smart STEM students from education system is the only criteria to win the AI race. It still depends on the industry focus. If the government focus on AI industry and give those smart stem students an AI job, then their AI industry will grow. If they focus on different areas, then top talents will go to other fields.

China just happened to focus on AI industry more than everyone else, that's it.


But in the US isn't university level of education is what give you real high paying job? Literally every stem students knows that if you can go to MIT, Stanford, Carnegie Mellon etc you get a job from big tech company after you graduate. So high school education being easy doesn't matter one bit, since big tech companies don't hire from high school. They only hire from the best university, and it's already hard to get into and graduate from top universities in the US.

I don't think what US highschool is doing is wrong. High school education is supposed to give everyone a chance to survive in the society. It's not meant to filter out lower IQ people. That's the role of university level education, not high school.

that's true of pretty much anything, but always a good reminder that nothing is ever completely one-sided. much harder to find common ground though when people tend to argue one extreme or the other.

It's not the tool, it's the user of the tool. Just like everything else.

Any person in charge of hiring is just as prone to bad hires regardless of the reason. Making corrupt/bad decisions isn't solely based on DEI. It's just a fantastic scapegoat.

The issue is the path from there. If high schools pass everyone, non-elite universities have to accept these students. Many of them have removed standardized test scores from admissions process and added 'life experience' and other non-objective criteria to increase minority students. Once they've been accepted, there's pressure to push them upward. This means the universities that aren't in the top 15 have to reduce the difficulty, creating a bigger skill discrepancy.

If high schools graded objectively, employers would be able to assume a high school graduate can perform algebra, geometry, and locate Iran on a world map. As is, many of our high school graduates can't write in complete sentences or count change. I read a recent case about a girl graduating high school without being able to read and getting accepted to a top 20% university anyway.

It might not directly relate to the AI issue, but I have only said DEI was a component. For what it's worth, I don't think the lack of meritocracy in schools is solely caused by DEI either, the issues just have a lot of overlap.

But did she successful graduate and land a job in one of the big tech company like Microsoft, Apple, Google or OpenAI?

Because if not, then I'd say education filtering is still functioning the exact same way as it should.

Nevermind the fact that US tech industry is still objectively No.1 in the world. Just because China is catching up, doesn't mean US education system isn't working anymore. There are plenty of countries that aren't anywhere close to the US when it comes to tech industry despite they also have large stem talent pool. You guys are overreacting lol.

USA is “still objectively no. 1 in the world” because those DEI hires are still being carried by the merit hires. This DEI *** had been a thing for at most a decade, and most people work for ~40 years. This is still in its infancy and the issues are already painfully obvious. Wait for those merit hires to retire, get phased out or fired for wrong-think.

Cancer isnt immediately fatal, it can be caught early enough and cured.

Keep in mind there are people who live in other countries, and although this is predominantly a US board (and we all try to discuss it with that in mine) there are people who post from other countries where this stuff is far more advanced and where there is next to no pushback at all allowed against it.

The US is still a normal country, with two opposing parties and they push to the left and then to the right and that keeps it from going too far.

This is not the case in most western countries, so although you can say "it's not that bad, quit complaining!" maybe it is in other places.

Even in the US it was becoming an issue, now imagine how bad it is in places where there is no pushback allowed against it and it just keeps getting worse.

I've almost made an entire Geas Fete KI set along with two WoC pops!

Just missing 4 Titanites, 2 Genbu and Byakko scraps, and the Incursion coffers. I've never done Incursion. I wonder what it's like and how long that'll take.

Chango feels so close yet so far. I haven't put my Marsyas to as much use as I was expecting. Need to work on my BRD's Fast Cast/song speed set to make songs go off at a more reasonable speed.

In other news, I've been making these dope 4 egg omelettes filled with cheese and diced red onion. I always thought I was bad at dicing, but apparently I'm a moron and was using the wrong kind of knives in the past.

Can't seem to quite shake this snotty nose and cough I've had since I was down bad sick after the holidays. When I first got sick it was terrible night sweats, coughing up a ***load of sputum, and snotty nose with really, really discolored snot out of one nostril. Now it's just the snot, though it's not continuous. Just one nostril is still putting out so much infected snot that it's dried out and crusty all the time. I thought my cough was finally eezing up. Hadn't cough in 2 days. Then I drank a mixed drink to celebrate finally making over 20k galli in my casual static in a single run, and the cough returned. whoops!

Got some anti-microbial spray otw for my nose, if it doesn't work I guess I may need to hit up a clinic and get some antibiotics or something.

def sounds like a sinus infection homie

Alcohol is a disinfectant, not an infectant.

Maybe you were served a Diddy Drank.