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Random Thoughts.....What are you thinking?
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1785
By Bahamut.Celebrindal 2023-05-23 18:22:18
I cannot believe someone could have the blindness to call the Gen-X'ers "historically volatile" with the current 20-30 age group on this planet.
We were(and are!) exceedingly lazy and don't really care to be bothered by the rest of humanity, but I guarantee in terms of purchasing trend volatility, the Millennials mop the floor with us^^
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By Foxfire 2023-05-23 18:22:29
Bahamut.Celebrindal said: »perhaps its just MILDLY possible that many of us older FF fans simply view the direction SE has taken FF in the past decade as just a sad loss. There are plenty! of games styled like what SE seems to want with XVI- a gamer can find that style anywhere. But when it came to turn-based full party RPGs, that market is almost completely gone. And if the king of that genre gives up on it, its a pretty safe bet that genre is dead or close. But like, Dragon Quest is still a thing. They announced XII two years ago! Octopath Traveler 2 came out months ago! The pixel remasters are seemingly doing well!
Just because the games don't carry "Final Fantasy [new number]" doesn't mean the genre's dead or given up on.
I don't know man. Something something mountains out of molehills.
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19647
By Valefor.Prothescar 2023-05-23 18:25:02
Bahamut.Celebrindal said: »I cannot believe someone could have the blindness to call the Gen-X'ers "historically volatile" with the current 20-30 age group on this planet.
We were(and are!) exceedingly lazy and don't really care to be bothered by the rest of humanity, but I guarantee in terms of purchasing trend volatility, the Millennials mop the floor with us^^
And yet we get monthly dissertations on why SE is wrong, all their games are ***, etc. while simultaneously pleading for them to go back to their roots and make exactly what IIIIII want.
Yes, volatile.
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By Jetackuu 2023-05-23 18:26:41
Valefor.Prothescar said: »This isn't what "objectively" means. Objectively, you're wrong. Subjectively, Call of Duty is a fine FPS game. It also appeals to millions of people and makes money hand over fist and you're mad about it for some reason. Except it is. I'm not wrong. It's a terrible game designed to appeal to morons. Again popular =/= good. I'm definitely not the one mad here, my guy.
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19647
By Valefor.Prothescar 2023-05-23 18:28:07
Once again, something you don't like =/= something that is bad. I'm done arguing on this point though, there's no talking sense to the senseless.
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Server: Excalibur
Game: FFXIV
Posts: 6368
By Leon Kasai 2023-05-23 18:29:20
Valefor.Prothescar said: »XIII didn't do well on its own, the franchise did, which I very clearly made sure to state. The reason for that? They iterated on each release instead of keeping it the same. And boy was XIII-2 fun because of it. Really hope we get more games experimenting with customizable monster party members. X-2 and XIII-2 did them well enough in the confines of their battle systems, but a game built around something like that from the ground up would be incredible.
While World of FF kinda does that, it's focus is more on the stack mechanic rather than the monsters themselves, so I don't really consider it a proper attempt. Still a great game though. Needs a proper, non-mobile sequel. Maybe we'll get it after the next non-arcade, non-mobile Dissidia... /copium
Did this game have to be a numbered title? Perhaps not. Surely they could've just named it something else and Final Fantasy could've been a subtitle, a la Stranger of Paradise. It's funny because people have said the same about XI for the last 20 years. "It should've just been Final Fantasy Online", "MMOs aren't real RPGs", etc.
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By Jetackuu 2023-05-23 18:31:15
Valefor.Prothescar said: »Once again, something you like =/= something that is bad. I'm done arguing on this point though, there's no talking sense to the senseless. Once again, you miss the entire point. Good point on the latter though, as you absolutely refuse to see sense here.
By Jetackuu 2023-05-23 18:32:33
Valefor.Prothescar said: »Bahamut.Celebrindal said: »I cannot believe someone could have the blindness to call the Gen-X'ers "historically volatile" with the current 20-30 age group on this planet.
We were(and are!) exceedingly lazy and don't really care to be bothered by the rest of humanity, but I guarantee in terms of purchasing trend volatility, the Millennials mop the floor with us^^
And yet we get monthly dissertations on why SE is wrong, all their games are ***, etc. while simultaneously pleading for them to go back to their roots and make exactly what IIIIII want.
Yes, volatile.
Because the overwhelming majority of the games they've produced for 2 decades have been hot, dog ***. This isn't disputable.
Edit: this is a good bit of the problem, as SE is a production company first, a game studio second. Anyway, the Canadian is doing fine arguing on her own, so peace.
Ragnarok.Jessikah
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3833
By Ragnarok.Jessikah 2023-05-23 18:37:12
Y'know, out of curiosity (because the last source here was something I saw earlier today) I clicked your other two links to see how your paraphrasing associated to the source... and honestly, if "paraphrasing" means "I feel some type of way about this game so I'm going to make ***up" then you definitely paraphrased those articles. Here was my thought process for that. Because you're right, "Paraphrasing" was not the right term to use.
1. I wanted to make the operational order sort of funny to get the point across. Sort of "Yoshida has been saying X, but then also Y and Z which have all been sort of contradictory", so I made it into quotes.
2. I thought it might further punch home my point if I backed it up with an article that sort of mentioned each of the points I was talking about.
3. I realized at the last second that a quote plus an article would probably appear as though I'm quoting something directly from that article. So I added the bracketed "Paraphrased".
But all three of those things are indeed things Yoshida has been saying.
The bit about Grand Theft Auto: (Yoshida) "While a lot of the older fans are used to what Final Fantasy had in the past, a lot of younger [players] have never played a Final Fantasy game. They grew up playing first-person shooters, they grew up playing games like [Grand Theft Auto], where basically you press a button and something happens immediately."
The story akin to Game of Thrones: "And in retrospect, that’s not surprising, as the developers working on the game were “required” to watch HBO’s popular fantasy series before development began on FFXVI"
The combat akin to Devil May Cry: "Ryota Suzuki may not be a name you recognize, but his Mobygames credits reveal a stellar action game pedigree, beginning as a play tester for Street Fighter Alpha 3 and most recently working as a designer on Devil May Cry 5. Final Fantasy 16's combat doesn't just resemble DMC5, then—it's headed up by someone who helped craft one of the finest action games of the decade"
Yoshida wanting to dissociate from JRPGs: "The thing that [Yoshida] wants to get across is that when we are creating games, at least with our team, we don’t go into them thinking that we’re going to be creating JRPGs, we just go into them thinking we’re going to create RPGs."
Hopefully that's better.
EDIT: Crap. I posted this thinking it was still an immediate response, then hastily ran afk. Not realizing it'd been paged and then didn't realize I was continuing an already dead argument. Just ignore it, I'm done arguing as well. Just needed to vent. (But I'll not delete it in case someone already quoted it or something)
By Jetackuu 2023-05-23 18:38:01
I always found the "online" part of the title being a bit large on the artwork. It seems like at least some agree with ya there.
Bahamut.Negan
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2193
By Bahamut.Negan 2023-05-23 18:39:28
Bahamut.Celebrindal said: »I cannot believe someone could have the blindness to call the Gen-X'ers "historically volatile" with the current 20-30 age group on this planet.
We were(and are!) exceedingly lazy and don't really care to be bothered by the rest of humanity, but I guarantee in terms of purchasing trend volatility, the Millennials mop the floor with us^^ I apathetically agree. Whatever, nevermind.
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By Jetackuu 2023-05-23 18:40:12
Bahamut.Celebrindal said: »We were aren't you in your 30s still?
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1785
By Bahamut.Celebrindal 2023-05-23 19:51:38
Bahamut.Celebrindal said: »We were aren't you in your 30s still?
I'm 44 by the birth certificate, and a solid 63 by skeletal structure.
By Draylo 2023-05-23 20:18:55
I just disagree that turn based combat has to go for anything new in current gen. Its a style of gameplay not something archaic holding a game back. I hate how it seems they only want to create things that follow the current trends that appeal to brain washed tiktoking Gen Z dummies. We used to have such a wide variety of games to choose from and now its like all these companies have to copy each other to appeal to that specific generation of gamers with attention spans of gnats. The older hardcore fans of series just force themselves to "get with the times" and overall it seems to place people who used to like certain things about games into a minority now.
I have to think it can't always be 100% about pure profit and only emulating success of other popular things... Artistic integrity and respecting your fan base has to matter for something. Its hard for me to accept that all the old diehard fans of the series should just "die" and let them cater only to that gen. Majority of remakes for RE have done really well and haven't deviated much from their originals and respected its fanbase (outside of the hate for RE3 remake which was outsourced.) Why is it Pokemon got to keep its style through almost every gen they released but Final Fantasy feels the need to follow trends and say turn based is dead.
I don't really feel excited for 16 at all, just looking at the gameplay and seeing videos just feels really meh as someone that has been a fan of FF since day 1.
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Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19647
By Valefor.Prothescar 2023-05-23 20:53:11
I have to think it can't always be 100% about pure profit and only emulating success of other popular things... Artistic integrity and respecting your fan base has to matter for something.
If this is what you want then play indie games. Hate to break it to anyone that needs to hear this, but yes: businesses exist to make as much money as possible. Feelings don't matter. They will always do what makes more money. That's just how it is. Passion projects, artistic outlets, etc. are done through smaller operations by independent developers and studios; see: many big name devs leaving large studios to form their own smaller ones and do what they want rather than what the board wants. Want an example of this in the JRPG space? Look up Eiyuden Chronicles.
As far as Pokemon and Nintendo in general, the answer is easy: they cast a wide net with extremely simple games made largely for children. They have the cheapest consoles and handhelds on the market and have peddled the same franchises since the '80s and have built multigenerational fanbases. They're household names. It's why you can ask a normie who Mario is and they'll know, but they'll be dumbfounded if you ask about Cloud or Squall.
Pokemon games can do less and less and less each gen and still sell millions due to a combination of all of these things. They're rarely bad games but to people who want more they are often disappointing.
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Ragnarok.Jessikah
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3833
By Ragnarok.Jessikah 2023-05-23 21:54:07
Artistic integrity and respecting your fan base has to matter for something. It matters to the artists. The problem is once a company starts getting so big that there's whole layers of management between those artists and the people who control the flow of money. The bigger the company, the more disconnected everyone becomes.
That's one of the reasons too why I'm getting really worried about all of these huge acquisitions. Sony buying Square-Enix and Microsoft buying A-B-K not only means more layers between the money and the peons, but there's less competition out there.
By Shukudai 2023-05-24 00:23:34
I have to think it can't always be 100% about pure profit and only emulating success of other popular things... Artistic integrity and respecting your fan base has to matter for something.
As a returning player: It's a mixture of confusion and profit.
FFXI to me more resembles low-level social gambling than anything or if you prefer in FF terms, XI is a Golden Saucer. You pay a monthly fee to get a variety of chips: gil, galli, segments, etc. You have to play a variety of minigames to get the various style of chips, then you use those to do the highest level of game that simply awards you more points. Previously, the highest tier of mini game involved drop rates, which was more gambling like but nowadays that's been changed to everyone getting a bit of a reward - so they can come back and repeat it and generate that monthly fee.
Makes me think of old men playing around mahjong table, smoking, laughing - they're just sitting around gambling, but this is the digital version of it. SE is certainly aware of it, they want you coming back and they build out the game in such a way as to ensure it continues to generate revenue to the best of their ability. On the other hand, devs like the game, they like FF, they want to make cool things, fun things but at the end of the day, it comes down to generating revenue.
Asura.Eiryl
By Asura.Eiryl 2023-05-24 00:57:10
Unplug each fan
Asura.Sechs
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10090
By Asura.Sechs 2023-05-24 01:47:25
Ragnarok.Jessikah said: »Lmao
Well, you sorta nailed it xD
That was pretty sad indeed, when I first read it.
This may sound completely stupid for us old geezers who grew up with Final Fantasy.
But, honestly, it sorta makes sense if you try to see the thing from a different perspective.
I'm not advocating that they should change their numbering system, nor I'm saying that I have a solution in mind.
I'm just saying that I acknowledge that this can be a real issue for a company who's trying to widen the public for a game that keeps costing more and more and they want to sell it much more than they did so far.
Like Assassin's Creed, like Grand Theft Auto, like Elden Ring. You name it, they want to sell over 20m copies of a game and they're very far from that, yet their title costs as much (if not more) as some of the titles I mentioned.
So... yeah, trying to check this thing from another point of view, I see what they mean with it.
As for the rest I'm not sure why some people are making such a fuss about FFXVI not being turn based.
I mean, are FFXI or FFXIV turn based?
Was FFXV turn based?
Was the new FFVII turn based?
XIII-1 and XIII-2 were sorta turn-based.
And I guess FFXII too, in a way, was turn based.
I'm a big lover for turn based RPGs but how many of those do you see these days, that sell like a mainstream title on console?
There, that's the answer.
It's more like... I would expect SE to have more mid-budget turn based games to make everybody happy, that's the real shame that I can't forgive them for.
But not making FF mainline games turn based anymore? It's not something *I like* but at the same time it's not a *surprise* for FFXVI to me. If anybody was expecting anything else that real time, they were just fooling themselves out of naivety or ignorance, you pick one.
Now if we're talking about being THIS MUCH focused on action, yes, that was a surprise for everybody of course.
As well with how they handled "party" mechanics. But I'll wait until I played a good part of the game before I formulate a judgement on that specific topic.
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Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19647
By Valefor.Prothescar 2023-05-24 03:29:10
How do I find out which part in my pc is making this god awful high pitched whine?
I really can’t pinpoint it with just my ear.
Could be coil whine from literally anything, PSUs and GPUs tend to do it the most tho
Asura.Eiryl
By Asura.Eiryl 2023-05-24 06:26:59
Quote: Surgeon general warns of mental health crisis surrounding social media
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Ragnarok.Jessikah
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3833
By Ragnarok.Jessikah 2023-05-24 07:44:51
Quote: Surgeon general warns of mental health crisis surrounding social media YouTube Video Placeholder
(This clip is from Volume 2 btw, no spoilers for Vol.3)
By Draylo 2023-05-24 08:04:42
Quote: Surgeon general warns of mental health crisis surrounding social media
YouTube Video Placeholder
Garuda.Chanti
Server: Garuda
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11406
By Garuda.Chanti 2023-05-24 09:16:58
Quote: Surgeon general warns of mental health crisis surrounding social media YES!!! Now is the time to launch antisocial media!
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By Viciouss 2023-05-24 09:32:02
Hopefully that Sony showcase today announces a FF16 demo.
This is a thread that I found on another website I post at. It can be really really interesting. I thought it deserved a place here.
Post your random thoughts for the day here, or anything else that intrigues you.
For starters, is it possible to give constructive critism to someone who doesn't have a neck? I totally just walked by a girl who didn't. Someone isn't getting a necklace for Valentines day!
And who decided black and white can't be colors? I want to say a racist. I really do.
Inb4thisthreadgetsreallywtf
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