THE TP Gear

Decided to go with RR/A&O/Apoc, and modify my build around it. Throwing out the Omni/DW Body concept.

While Omnipotent bolsters the highest damage on SA & SA/RS by a considerable amount,
it doesn't make up for what I realized to be a horrible loss to Melee & Evisceration averages. (Compared to both GN/A&O)

Gnarled Horn also falls under the same symptoms,
Bolstering the highest damage on Evisceration, but also falls behind A&O averages on Melee, SA, SA/RS.
GN does however provide more survivability, I would recommend this to anyone trying to solo/has inadequate healing in their party.
But again, it really depends what you are fighting.

Something to consider is 80%~ of a THF's overall Dps comes from Melee attacks.
Your Melee Dps benefits the most from A&O.

Yet again, all you seem to talk about is WSs. The thread is about TP gear to begin with, but even going a step further we could use overall DPS as the basis for the argument. In which case you are still arguing that 50 DEX some how beats 20% crit. Do you even play THF, or do you just post here? Why are you either ignoring, or acting as if our TPing is not part of our DPS. In abyssea I have a 74% crit rate. My regular hits do between 55-80ish depending on the mobs weakness and defense, etc. When I used RR, and the 8% increase in DMG THF gets natively, my crits will do on average 200~. That's well over half in most cases. You're welcome to continue arguing 50 DEX against 20% crit rate, and be laughable as a result.

As far as ACC goes, you made me /facepalm when your argument used a generalized NIN parse as your THF sample. On Orthrus no less. Obviously, on a mob you probably shouldn't be TPing to begin with, you'd have to try harder to cap ACC. There are a myriad of solutions that are far more effective and less detrimental that you could consider. Use Feint, use conspirator, eat a pizza, make and offhand a DEX Kila for that particular fight, and if you're parsing 70%, generally upgrade your gear. Assuming all of this, a 12.5% increase in ACC, much less in reality because of the 21.5 ACC my gear offers over Ballerines, Tiercel Necklace and Mirke Wardecors, will still not beat 20% crit rate, especially when the DMG from your hits more than doubles.

And just so you don't cling to it like a crutch anymore. I don't want to use that spreadsheet. Any idiot could see how 50 DEX would make a DEX modded WS stacked with a DEX modded ability hit harder. That's not the point though. I would gladly let you stack a WS for 4500 while mine do 4200 if I could have 20% more crit rate.

if we're going to complain about how ws are irrelevant to what should be done atma-wise for tp gear, we should also try to ws in different weapons from what we tp in.

gh is good. it's just not unarguably the best at this point. and it's not simply that the dex mod helps with ws damage; it's not like your suggestions for acc don't sacrifice attack to some extent. omnipotent isn't just 50 dex; it's 50 dex and haste, which allows for more dual wield gear.

It's not about tp or ws, it's about damage. Omni combo set does not provide better damage than GH or AO on weak mobs. Still, the difference between them is small if you solo evis and sa/ta, and even smaller when you save sa for rudras. I already showed the numbers (also linked in the previous page).

If the situation of needing acc arises omni combo will win, after all, the set has more acc than any other. It's truth it doesn't have a large margin over 4/5af+homam, but still there is just enough to beat it, even with a mirke without acc.

I imagine Orthrus is important because it's an nm that people actually need and do. Just like all the other final tier heroes nms. So it's a baseline nonetheless because their strength shouldn't be much different.

Anyway, i'm probably lucky to be the main tank of my shell, and as a thief most times. Yeah...i don't even know what's this "shouldn't be TPing to begin with" anymore. But really, by today's standards, going to an event as a melee and not melee is completely unreasonable to me.

The reason to search new ways to fix acc was to avoid depending on such things:
- Pizza? really?
- feint? only a temporary fix
- conspirator? you can't even receive the effect if you are tanking
- Dex kila? well, this one i can accept. Even with omnipotent, it could still be necessary.

Ok so, you don't wanna use the spreadsheet. You also don't wanna accept the numbers i provided (or maybe you didn't see). There is not much i can do for you then.

If the only thing you can provide are insults, i'll just ignore and stop posting. If that's what you wanted, well, you won. If opposed to that, you are able to provide facts and numbers, then this is the beginning of a healthy discussion, and i'll enjoy being proven wrong.

Never said GH is the best, clearly RR and Apoc have that covered equally. I simply said it's a far superior choice in comparison to omnipotent with 3% DW from a Mirke being some kind of great equalizer. Second, and I'm trying really hard not to be rude here, but what the hell attack am I sacrificing. Literally none. 5 Dagger skill versus 5 STR means a loss in 2.5 actually, BUT NOT FOR MY SET. Add in the 5 attack that you lose from wearing Ballerines and you're even deeper in the hole. So in fact, not only are you wrong, but my set offers MORE attack than the one in question. Also, before you try to mention it, I can offhand a STR Kila and keep 26% haste too. I simply don't because Triplus is better. Lastly, I am well aware that it is 50 DEX and 10% haste. the haste isn't of consequence to me however, because I tp in 26% regardless of atma choice.
I'll do this in descending order, minus the first paragraph, as it's silly.

1. If you're tanking on THF (as much as I do it and love it), particularly on Orthrus, you're probably using Atma of the Brother Wolf as your 3rd atma. I say probably because that's what I do, and it's the most reasonable course of action. I can speak from experience though, and say that ACC has only been a problem on a very select few mobs in abyssea, namely Flame Skimmer.
2. Yes, really, Pizza. It's a wonderful solution to acc issues without sacrificing most of the atk gained by using a meat type food, such as curry. Why do you act as if that point is illogical. The "Pfft, lol, he said pizza" (Obviously I am exaggerating) bit does you no justice. Feint, when merited to it's cap, which any self respecting THF should do, will allow you to essentially cap acc on almost anything 1/4 of the time. A sizable portion. Conspirator is a bonus, not a gamebreaking shift in ACC, and I didn't suggest such. If you're tanking, unfortunately you can't make us of it yourself, oh well. DEX Kila is a good option, and it's reasonable for you to agree, but don't forget what I've already said about the difference in gear sets. I have 21.5 more acc than a set using Mirke, Ballerines, and a Tiercel Necklace. 3.5 more acc from Omnipotent makes it that much better for ACC? to all the laymen out there, that's not even 2% hitrate.
3. No, because as I actually viewed the spreadsheet, and it offers a few numbers about ONLY WS dmg with no samples and offers no evidence to the argument of TPing. For the last, last, last, last, last time. I am aware that the 50 DEX will make WSs deal more dmg, assuming all of the same conditions are met respectively, I.E. The same numbers of hits and criticals (Cue Gnarled Horn).
4. However you see my attitude is fine, and I'm not blind to the fact that I antagonized you. I did not do so as some sort of personal attack. I did it to insult the inferior argument that you supported. My goal all along has been to enlighten you to the error in your perception. However, all profanity, anger, etc. aside; When dealing with math, a subject of certainties, you cannot choose to be subjective. Wear whatever gear you feel like, for looks, for whatever particular form of performance you desire, whatever. Don't argue in favor of something that is factually inferior statistically though, because you then stop being ignorant and become obstinate and more importantly, stupid.

No offense is intended by this post, but I won't just reply to you and say "Let's be friends, you're right", because you aren't. I have no personal qualms with you, and likely never will, because that isn't in my personality. If you would like to 'argue' again in the future, please choose a subject that is subjective, so that there is at least SOME latitude. Math is indifferent, so stop arguing with it.

by best i meant best for the third slot, i figured rr and apoc were given. but hey, maybe i'm even wrong there. i don't pretend to know more about thief than i do, and i don't pretend i've crunched the numbers.

when i said sacrifices in acc, i wasn't talking about overall between the two sets built around which atmas, i just meant that your suggestions of pizza and a dex kila (which would sacrifice either attack or triple attack or overall attack speed).

i don't think people just want to be right here. if the numbers are wrong, fair enough, but people aren't trying to argue about something subjective. even the last part of what you quoted from laphine says that if you provide facts and numbers, he'll enjoy being proven wrong. if the math is wrong, i'm sure people would want to see the math that's right. so if you put up some numbers (if i missed them, sorry), i'm sure people would take your input a lot better.

Is this the spreadsheet i linked? really doesn't sound like it. Kinematics did a great work to simulate thief damage there. Not only does it calculate our raw dagger dps, but it checks the contribution of ws damage to this dps. More importantly, something usually left over in most "quick" mathing on the web, sa/ta damage is also accounted for, soloed or not.

So yeah i found you unreasonable when you try to prove me wrong when i was the only providing evidences. Have you ever parsed an orthrus fight? if you post showing that our acc is capped there i'll retract myself.

Pretty sure the accepted "best" is 4/5 Emp and Homam. Not really sure what the numbers are.

If i had to chose between those two, I'd pick the 4/5 + Homam build. I know people scoff off the Set bonus on THF, But with our Triple Attack rate going higher and higher it actually proc's quite often...

4/5 will win. I have tested Loki's for TP hoping that it would find it's way into a superior TP set for THF, but it just can't. Our AF3+2 body is just too good. You would basically be trading 20 ATK, 23 ACC, 8 STR, 7 DEX, and 4/5 v. 2/5 set bonus to use the Loki's set, and with Loki's only being a 5% increase, I'd say it's hard to justify. Perhaps if food was brought into the equation the above set could pull ahead, but then again that's changing the dynamics. Just know that the second set is about the best you're going to do. Also, lose the Oneiros, get a rajas, and the set is gravy. I'm working on getting those new Ryuga Sune-ate since they technically trump Homam finally.

P.S. I don't have a love torque yet, and can't get a crit rate Wivre neck to show up, so I also TP in Agasaya's. I would say a close to perfect Wivre gorget is gonna be tops, but noone has really provided concrete evidence and to which of the 3 is the best. All 3 are good options though.

The oneiros ring and/or demonry ring probably beats rajas in many situations now. The Str and Dex on rajas are doing next to nothing when dDex and fStr are capped, so the only thing going for it is +5 Store TP, which is easily beaten by 2% TA.

Just from some quick math I'd wager Mextli harness to be a good contender for THF, mostly outside Abyssea, though the loss of Raider's armlets might narrow that if +attack is applicable.
In regards to Demonry Ring, was it ever confirmed to be 5% boost?

The TA is diminished at such a high capacity, the DEX from Rajas makes ACC only .5 behind the Oneiros, and the Store TP isn't the only useful mod, 5 Subtle Blow is amazing. Also, your argument forgets anything not abyssea, and the fact that the Onerios's latent is a pain in the ***. Demonry, I would wager is a contender, but from what I've read, it's like a 1% DMG bonus and that would be almost useless. If it's atleast like 3% similar to Triplus, it could be interesting. Also, Demonry is somewhat of a pain in the *** at 1Mil and semi rare to just test at this point. Multiple claims have been cited at anywhere from 1% to 5% on Demonry, which makes it iffy.

rajas ring's subtle blow counters the store tp's detrimental effect of providing more tp to a target, which essentially makes it give no more tp to a target than any other ordinary ring out there without agi and/or subtle blow on it

just thought i'd put that out there

I was under the impression that enemy TP gain was calculated based on your base TP/hit, is this not true?

Unless it's changed since way back in the day, then I don't think see. I've been thinking the same this entire time too, though.

Like, if you're gaining 6 tp per hit, that would be 6% + 3% TP they gain each time you hit them, modified by Subtle Blow and AGI. But I'm wondering what order it gets calculated in, and if even still holds true?

since they've introduced the ability to five-hit with 437 delay, i've took note of an increased frequency of which monsters use tp moves against me; granted, it was present even before the level increase (samurai roll), but it's a lot more familiar via daily difference, versus two-times-a-week difference (einherjar/dynamis day, back years ago)

i mainly noticed it though the few times i'd get samurai roll on khimaira below 25% (since it wasn't often we'd drag a cor out there), and then it'd pretty much be a tp move every ten seconds maximum, not that it was much of an issue though thankfully since our good stunners were almost always on

i mean, i'd be glad to be proven otherwise, but i've always felt it was the case after years of playing the biggest tp feeder there is (aside perhaps blue mages' big three, since last i recall blue mage spells gave 10 tp a hit, unless that was in fact not the case?)

Unless they changed it while I was away from the game, BLU spells give 10 tp per hit, yes. ie Disseverement would be 50 TP. Keep in mind mobs use TP only when 200% unless below 25% HP.

I realize that rajas still wins a lot of the time, which is why I said "many situations" (namely abyssea, where dDex and/or fStr are capped). I can see how Oneiros would be annoying to use sometimes, and Demonry is actually fairly easy to get in a lowman dyna run.

to the OP, af3+2 legs are better as calcamac trousers are better as af3+1 legs

The Oneiros Ring and/or Demonry Ring INSTEAD of Rajas.

Oneiros and Epona's Ring or Demonry Ring and Epona's Ring.

"And" meaning either of them could possibly beat Rajas. "Or" meaning possibly only one of them would beat Rajas, but not the other. Although, I suppose in this case "or" alone would have been sufficient.

ex:
In the case of "and" both epona's/demonry AND epona's/oneiros are better than epona's/rajas.

as per usual with all mabrook posts: