The Wyrm God

Again, I think your hitting your points right on the nail. I want to add a few things here though. Just because someone does it the "easy" way, dosnt mean that it takes away from your experiences at all. If anything, this is the only time one should be an "elitist". Actually putting skill in the game is what gives bragging rights. Not being the "time elitist" that puts others down because you have been playing this game longer than someone else. Before the cap increases, the only real difference between some one with "all the good stuff" and someone that would be classified as a "noob" or "gimp" is just a matter of the "time factor". To me, waiting for years or "lucking out" to get a good peice of equipment is not something I would refer to as skill.

Also, if you think about it, if everyone's goal is to make their character the best they can, then everyone is going to look alike because there arent really any variations to the top gear. This could be one real reason why people who are the "time elitist" wont let others without the top gear do things that would get them the top gear. They would rather hold everyone else back so they can feel better and unique. I think this issue has been addressed in a great fashion with the level cap increase and the new way of getting gear from NMs with the triggering of the weakness. As someone suggested in another thread; This game would most likely have been truley died if they continued their trends with time and luck in reference to getting things. I also believe that we are in a big suprise for the next 2 level caps with regards to getting ones hands on the top gear. Remember, we still have 9 more levels of "top gear" coming. This wont be the "top gear" for very long. Although its damned good and Im glad that everyone can have a chance to get their characters dressed in it.

Lol. Although I have never been one to call people gimp, I agree. Please....I urge....please try to get those atmas and abyssites. They are essential. Abyssea is really one of those places in the game where you are truely hindering the team for not comming correct. But at the same time, remember that Abyssea will be outdated at some point too. The argument could be made that, abyssea was really made as the new way to level. The NMs and story may have been an after thought. lol

Yes and no. There are the people who would love to "game genie" FFXI and actually are "gimp" or "noob". The time factor or difficulty usually weeded out the people who were extraordinarily lazy.
Also, there are a select group who actually enjoys the super difficult items to obtain and the pay off of having gear that not everyone has. I wouldn't mind the new gear as much if they still added another eschelon of gear even if it was only moderatety better at best. If i wanted everything to land in my lap in 20 seconds I would not be playing an MMO at all honestly (or at least playing WoW).
I'm not upset enough about it to quit or cry all day long but I do want to at least offer a different perspective of it. The sense of accomplishment when i finished ares's body carried with me for years (up until about the time they were on every back i could see). I remember how happy i was to finally finish Homam 5/5 years ago. Can anyone honestly say they were still excited about 5/5 perle the day after getting it or was it just there (and 5/5 perle was better on paper than alot of homam amalgam sets).
Even blackbelt wasn't amazingly hard to get. A determined person with good backup could have one in a week. There are still 90 mnks rocking brown belts (I know one personally). Does that make me a "time elitest" because someone can't show up for 7- 1 minute windows in a 3 hour span? Maybe they should release a 15% haste triple dan blackbelt that you buy for 1 cruor.
I just enjoy working at least a little bit and i realize I'm using obnoxious hyperbole but it gets old to be told you're being elitest or obtuse every time you expect any kind of effort out of someone. I don't even agree with lakshmi.vitazubat guy but i do understand a level of his frustration. I guess I'm just playing devil's advocate to some extent but also I don't think its out of line to expect people who sign up to play a MASSIVE multiplayer online game to want at least some content besides "click guy, get gear".

Except FFXI is hardly massive and most of the content outside this fight (with the rare exception of a few NMs) do not require Multiple people. You can dual or tri box most of it now with the exception of a few NMs.

I can hardly say me dual boxing to get my gear is lazy. I would say lazy would be riding on the backs of 5-17 other people in order to get your gear. Getting gear or not has nothing to do with being lazy. It has everything to do with either having a group of closeknit friends that happen to play as much as you do or joining a big linkshell. You could take my path and dual box stuff as well.

The fact that someone else would feel less accomplished by the way I acquire my gear is absolutely *** asinine. I figured the elitism died once Abyssea became the predominant event in the game, but I guess something has to make them feel like a special little snowflake.

It's amazing this is all because I asked to join in on a possible brewed run that Byrth was already possibly going to do anyway.

I don't think they were really referencing you Aurilius. I agree that dual/tri-boxing your own gear is about as self-less as you can get. I would recommend that you find people to do the fight with legit though, as much for the experience as anything else. I know some others that are LS-less vagabonds at the moment. Mein Vitali, Arte, and co. keep me busy most nights that I can play, but it would be worthwhile to build up a base of people like that, as much for the fun and fights like this as anything else.

I personally try to lowman as much stuff as possible (but I can't dual-box). It doesn't waste other people's time when they aren't needed. Similarly, if you only have a few friends still playing (like me) then you need to save your friend-cred for when you actually need it. I'm not going to run friends around with me while I kill T1 NMs unless they really benefit from it somehow.

Appreciate the insight, but I'm going to just brew it for now. I'll worry about the fun of the fight later. I'd much rather have a brew on me later down the road so I don't wipe to something during a dual box and end up wasting the time I spent farming the key item pops.

Didn't care about the BCNM itself or the gear. Merely after the abyssite for the 200k cruor brews.

Most of my long standing friends either quit or are not diverged deep enough into the game to help me with this fight.

Right, that wasn't really directed at you aurlius, just a generalization about the playerbase.

FFXI is a MMO, and up until recently, required you to do things as a group if you wanted anything worthwhile. That's always been a theme around ANY ff game, the concept of a party.

I fully support dualboxing. Most events we do have maybe 3-5 actual players and another 2-3 muels.

I do have an issue with people pressing the easybutton and getting handed top tier gear.

@ ashman - i like vitazubat and will now use that name.

and at Asura.Lastwindowaspi, who sent me a lovely PM to stop posting: No.

I wasn't. I also wasn't really argueing with Pawnskipper as much as i was venting my frustration with SE. I understand WoW outsells XI by alot. I also understand that wii showed casual gaming sells. I still think there should be more options for the less-casual gamer.

I would also like to (without getting too defensive) point out that i have low manned or duo'ed quite a few creatures in the past 8 years. I may have done events with 15-17 people but I have never "ridden others backs" nor would i fault someone for avoiding doing large scale events. The target newb audience i get mad at is the "i full time sword on rdm" or the people who eyeball ***without actually testing it.

Well technically if you wanted to do it REALLY legit....wouldnt you not use any Atma's either?? :)

I can understand your sentiments on acheivement and I wasnt calling anyone here an elitist. You have every right to be proud of the effort you put in. I was just pointing out from my past expereinces. And this game is far from a point and click to get gear. You just dont have alot of those uncontrollable variables that make things hard for no reason other than they couldnt think of anything else. Its not like there still arent barriers to cross to get the twilight gear.

One reason why I believe the "time factor" is valid is because for most instances, the only reason why it takes years is because SE puts cool down times on their events to keep you playing. And although I hate the Traverser Stone idea, its alot better than "you can only enter every 72 hours". Which if you think about it, is the only reason one can say it took them sooooo long to get. A great accomplishment does not have to take a long period of time. And a great accomplishment is not exclusive to one person. Especially in a online game. The experience is. When its all said and done and the servers are forever gone, you will have those memories. No matter how long it took. And no matter how many people are wearing that coveted gear I worked so hard to get, I will still know what I had to do to get it. Now SE is appealing to people who dont want to spend time waiting and crossing their fingers. They have givin us much more controll over what we can get. And honestly, im glad they went this route. But thats not to say that they will not ever bring an event thats like the "old days", to appeal to the people who liked those 72 hour barriers.

No I agree with Vitali, there's not many ways to seperate the good and the bad from each other anymore because even horrible players can recieve the best and most difficult gear due to using "extra" help, It isn't cheating, it's legit, But it's stupid on SE's part for allowing A brew to be used inside the BC Unless all 1-6 Players have Beaten it before, I know someone who's awful, tp's and ws's in the same exact gear, never swaps for anything, and survival is a myth, has 3 of the twilight pieces because his shell brewed Both rani and this dragon. Atmas is a normal part of abyssea, people always have been using it, you rarely saw anybody touching Primeval brews until Recently, why? Because they cannot beat it without. God forbid SE introduce a difficult mob into the game.

Spare us the fallacious arguments, there's a huge difference between using atmas and brews.

I also think people shouldn't have been able to pop brews on the first fight. There's little enough reward for having any sort of skill these days, a few more barriers to make killing Shinryu and getting his drops more of a notable accomplishment would have been nice.

I know this black guy that got an aegis and doesn't even use it.

Sup BL ^^

Brews are not a normal part of abyssea? Why is that. because they cost alot. iirc they have always been a part of Abyssea from day 1.

I think he was pointing out that no one has been using them really aside from as a joke, because there really hasn't been anything challenging in abyssea.

Now that we are faced with two challenging mobs (rani and shinryu), you see people using them because they are used to the pushover mobs in the rest of abyssea, they don't know how to handle a situation that actually requires some skill.

Well to be fair there are still a ton of people that aren't even close to 2 million cruor to begin with. But spending 2 million in order to get brews for 200,000 seems like a very very smart move. Maybe it's just me.

Oh. I see. Thanks for clearing that up. :)

And I guess I can agree with the whole thing about making it where you have to have the atma already to use the brew. But as of now, you can. Only people that will change this is SE. But I dont think this is likely. And if they do, it wont be before everyone has it.

maybe, but I can pretty much gaurentee that 99% of the people brewing their first shinryu do not have the same motivation as you.

As far as Rani goes, he is no joke. While he is low-mannable, Its definitely been described as one of the more complex/Difficult Low-man fights. Needing either a Deaggro method to reset Rage at ~50% or a brew. While its possible without a Brew, Brew is indeed the safest and most time friendly method, there is no shame in being conservative of your time, and wanting to past the scrub mobs to the real reward (Shinryu).

Also, Blue > Brew Shinryu. Its not only the most reliable but almost the most time friendly and rewarding method, No shame in being smart, sure you won't get to come on a forum and strut your Epeen, but you'll have nice gear, and thats all that matters.

Edit: Idrik really only sucks if you drag the fight, I think his Lance gets more powerful with each use... ITs weak early on (2k, not WEAk but still), but later on in the fight if it takes too long.. 5k~7k+ is common -.-

head shots all around?

A bit more on topic, Dose anyone have any tips for timing your weaponskills between his attacks? When your so close to him you can melee hes attacks can look like he's only wiggling a bit and it complicates the matter that he has his elevated stance that really is just a wiggle. His animation is rather long so is there a point you can be safe to attack (after the damage is in the log maybe?) or should he be fully at rest when you initiate your weaponskill?
Also, has yellow weakness been shown to have any effects on his drops at all? It seems odd it would have no effect on the outcome of such a major battle.

As soon as he ends his melee attack animation is the best time to go.

Yellow !! seem to give more useless crafting items. Gooo antlion jaw.