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Obama Press Conference
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Bahamut.Jetackuu
Server: Bahamut
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Posts: 9001
By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2010-11-06 12:48:30
Sylph.Dobrusi said: Siren.Avina said: Sylph.Dobrusi said: I agree. Obama is the biggest idiot ever to be president. Pelosi is next in line, "we have to pass the bill to know what is in it"?? Are you kidding me? lmao! I never signed a mortgage without knowing the interest rate, come on dumbass, right? Liberals suck, all they know how to do is spend money they don't have and ruin everything. I just hope the republicans make a strong case to reppeal obamacare. I agree that everyone that is a U.S. citizen should have healthcare but not run by the gov't. We have the best healthcare in the world, or had anyway. Take it from me, I'm in the medicine field.....and I play ffxi :) I also work in the medical field, and I was also taught to back up my statements with arguments, as one should. So if it isn't the government who is going to run a healthcare system giving all American citizens then I would like to ask you who should? What governing body do you think should be able to make that choice for US citizens that isn't the American government? And if you can't answer that you need to sit down and play less FFXI and go back to school. Let me tell you about big and small government. Neither exist. There is just a government, and the size of what it governs is what is going to determine the size. We have a constitution with 27 amendments to it because we cannot make up our mind. We have one of the largest economies in the world despite the fact that it has seen better days. We have the most powerful military force in the world. Social security. Medicare. Public education. You want a really small government? Then drop your military, drop your social security and public education, and go back to things being cut throat. We haven't been a small government since the Civil War ended and it became clear that the States cannot do everything they want to, and we are never going to be again. What's funny is that I actually like the conservative argument, talking with conservatives who really know their stuff. I like the idea of the government staying out of things, and letting us live our lives. But boy do I get confused by that argument when I read about the Republicans trying to outlaw abortion. That's bringing the government into people's lives, isn't it? Gay marriage, the same thing. And with the Patriot Act, despite the conservative rhetoric otherwise, it seems that the GOP was trying to tell us that a little bit of big brother is okay. And please tell me how Bush's whole TARP thing falls into the small government argument. The GOP hasn't been after small government for a long time.
Just a quick point to your first statement, government should not run healthcare, that will make it just like all the other horrible healthcare systems in the world. I don't have an opinion on who should run it, I think it should be the same as it was but with new ways to get people coverage. I am all for getting everyone coverage that IS a U.S. citizen but that doesn't mean the gov't taking over. Don't you realize that this is against the constitution? The gov't FORCING people to get healthcare or they get fined. They also will have access to all peoples medical records which eliminates privacy, physicians will be told how to practice medicing by people who no nothing about treating a patient and their symptoms.... this is all in the bill. Try reading some of it.
I'd like to ask where you get off on the idea that America's health care is the best in the world? Do you have any facts to back up this claim? All I see is that America spends the most on health care, and is ranked pretty low (37th in 2000, don't feel like finding newer numbers, but be my guest) so do us a favor and stop being a delusional moron who thinks America is the best at everything, because we aren't, fool.
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Bahamut.Jetackuu
Server: Bahamut
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By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2010-11-06 12:50:57
Sylph.Dobrusi said: Asura.Halloween said: that national debt list is quite funny. Conservatives have been yelling for years that we need to cut spending, but they seem to be on the wrong team. For over 40 years, it's the Democratic presidents that have left office with a lower national debt and each Republican president left with a higher debt. That's gotta be some sort of wake up call, doesn't it? Also, the bank bailout is projected to break even and the cars bailout is projected to make profits. So let's wait and see what kind of debt Obama has really accumulated before crying out against him.
You're joking, right? So what about the stimulus bills for jobs that cost billions and no jobs?? Do you know anything about obamacare and how it will cost people money? And how do you explain the difference in the deficit when the last president left office and now, 2 years later? Bush did spend alot towards the end of his term but NOTHING even close to this barrack hussain after only 2 years. Now this joke is taking all these people to India, costing our country more millions??? This guy doesn't give a damn about the middle class.
So tell me, how has barrack bettered our country?
Halloween is perfectly right in what he says, you can't argue the facts he stated. Also I'd like to point out the fact that you make the extra effort to point Obama's non wasp name and play the race card, you do realize that not everyone is an ignorant racist bigot and care that his father is Kenyan right?
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Phoenix.Excelior
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2093
By Phoenix.Excelior 2010-11-06 12:51:22
Sylph.Dobrusi said: Siren.Avina said: Sylph.Dobrusi said: I agree. Obama is the biggest idiot ever to be president. Pelosi is next in line, "we have to pass the bill to know what is in it"?? Are you kidding me? lmao! I never signed a mortgage without knowing the interest rate, come on dumbass, right? Liberals suck, all they know how to do is spend money they don't have and ruin everything. I just hope the republicans make a strong case to reppeal obamacare. I agree that everyone that is a U.S. citizen should have healthcare but not run by the gov't. We have the best healthcare in the world, or had anyway. Take it from me, I'm in the medicine field.....and I play ffxi :) I also work in the medical field, and I was also taught to back up my statements with arguments, as one should. So if it isn't the government who is going to run a healthcare system giving all American citizens then I would like to ask you who should? What governing body do you think should be able to make that choice for US citizens that isn't the American government? And if you can't answer that you need to sit down and play less FFXI and go back to school. Let me tell you about big and small government. Neither exist. There is just a government, and the size of what it governs is what is going to determine the size. We have a constitution with 27 amendments to it because we cannot make up our mind. We have one of the largest economies in the world despite the fact that it has seen better days. We have the most powerful military force in the world. Social security. Medicare. Public education. You want a really small government? Then drop your military, drop your social security and public education, and go back to things being cut throat. We haven't been a small government since the Civil War ended and it became clear that the States cannot do everything they want to, and we are never going to be again. What's funny is that I actually like the conservative argument, talking with conservatives who really know their stuff. I like the idea of the government staying out of things, and letting us live our lives. But boy do I get confused by that argument when I read about the Republicans trying to outlaw abortion. That's bringing the government into people's lives, isn't it? Gay marriage, the same thing. And with the Patriot Act, despite the conservative rhetoric otherwise, it seems that the GOP was trying to tell us that a little bit of big brother is okay. And please tell me how Bush's whole TARP thing falls into the small government argument. The GOP hasn't been after small government for a long time. Just a quick point to your first statement, government should not run healthcare, that will make it just like all the other horrible healthcare systems in the world. I don't have an opinion on who should run it, I think it should be the same as it was but with new ways to get people coverage. I am all for getting everyone coverage that IS a U.S. citizen but that doesn't mean the gov't taking over. Don't you realize that this is against the constitution? The gov't FORCING people to get healthcare or they get fined. They also will have access to all peoples medical records which eliminates privacy, physicians will be told how to practice medicing by people who no nothing about treating a patient and their symptoms.... this is all in the bill. Try reading some of it.
The healthcare bill is bad only because it has no public option. You're missing the point of the bill like 90% of americans who don't study economics.
Insurance companies have entirely way too high of rates and many policies that hurt consumers. ->
Insurance companies have no incentive to fix these policies and prices because they are ALL doing it. ->
If insurance companies had a competitor with bette rates, greater coverage, and less restrictions, they would have to lower their prices down to be competitive with this other company. ->
Creating the government public option creates a competitor for these insurance companies that carrys the standards of insurance that we think is acceptable for the US. ->
Mandating that everyone have insurance makes companies realize that they're going to lose people if they do not become competitive. ->
The public option is not meant to support everyone in the US. The goal is by creating it we'll raise standards and private insurance prices will plummet. ->
After private insurance goes down to acceptable levels most people will choose private insurance over the public option; the price of the public option will continue to fall; private insurance will follow suit.
Bottom line: The public option will dramatically lower prices and increase quality of healthcare in america by forcing capitalist companies to become competitive or go out of business. The fact we didn't pass the public option *** everyone. Now we have mandated insurance but it's not anymore affordable. We've legislated people into a system that *** them over on prices. Thank you Sarah Palin for your deathpanels, I hope we create one just for you; I bet the vote would be unanimous.
Bahamut.Jetackuu
Server: Bahamut
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Posts: 9001
By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2010-11-06 12:54:05
Phoenix.Excelior said: Sylph.Dobrusi said: Siren.Avina said: Sylph.Dobrusi said: I agree. Obama is the biggest idiot ever to be president. Pelosi is next in line, "we have to pass the bill to know what is in it"?? Are you kidding me? lmao! I never signed a mortgage without knowing the interest rate, come on dumbass, right? Liberals suck, all they know how to do is spend money they don't have and ruin everything. I just hope the republicans make a strong case to reppeal obamacare. I agree that everyone that is a U.S. citizen should have healthcare but not run by the gov't. We have the best healthcare in the world, or had anyway. Take it from me, I'm in the medicine field.....and I play ffxi :) I also work in the medical field, and I was also taught to back up my statements with arguments, as one should. So if it isn't the government who is going to run a healthcare system giving all American citizens then I would like to ask you who should? What governing body do you think should be able to make that choice for US citizens that isn't the American government? And if you can't answer that you need to sit down and play less FFXI and go back to school. Let me tell you about big and small government. Neither exist. There is just a government, and the size of what it governs is what is going to determine the size. We have a constitution with 27 amendments to it because we cannot make up our mind. We have one of the largest economies in the world despite the fact that it has seen better days. We have the most powerful military force in the world. Social security. Medicare. Public education. You want a really small government? Then drop your military, drop your social security and public education, and go back to things being cut throat. We haven't been a small government since the Civil War ended and it became clear that the States cannot do everything they want to, and we are never going to be again. What's funny is that I actually like the conservative argument, talking with conservatives who really know their stuff. I like the idea of the government staying out of things, and letting us live our lives. But boy do I get confused by that argument when I read about the Republicans trying to outlaw abortion. That's bringing the government into people's lives, isn't it? Gay marriage, the same thing. And with the Patriot Act, despite the conservative rhetoric otherwise, it seems that the GOP was trying to tell us that a little bit of big brother is okay. And please tell me how Bush's whole TARP thing falls into the small government argument. The GOP hasn't been after small government for a long time. Just a quick point to your first statement, government should not run healthcare, that will make it just like all the other horrible healthcare systems in the world. I don't have an opinion on who should run it, I think it should be the same as it was but with new ways to get people coverage. I am all for getting everyone coverage that IS a U.S. citizen but that doesn't mean the gov't taking over. Don't you realize that this is against the constitution? The gov't FORCING people to get healthcare or they get fined. They also will have access to all peoples medical records which eliminates privacy, physicians will be told how to practice medicing by people who no nothing about treating a patient and their symptoms.... this is all in the bill. Try reading some of it.
The healthcare bill is bad only because it has no public option. You're missing the point of the bill like 90% of americans who don't study economics.
Insurance companies have entirely way too high of rates and many policies that hurt consumers. ->
Insurance companies have no incentive to fix these policies and prices because they are ALL doing it. ->
If insurance companies had a competitor with bette rates, greater coverage, and less restrictions, they would have to lower their prices down to be competitive with this other company. ->
Creating the government public option creates a competitor for these insurance companies that carrys the standards of insurance that we think is acceptable for the US. ->
Mandating that everyone have insurance makes companies realize that they're going to lose people if they do not become competitive. ->
The public option is not meant to support everyone in the US. The goal is by creating it we'll raise standards and private insurance prices will plummet. ->
After private insurance goes down to acceptable levels most people will choose private insurance over the public option; the price of the public option will continue to fall; private insurance will follow suit.
Bottom line: The public option will dramatically lower prices and increase quality of healthcare in america by forcing capitalist companies to become competitive or go out of business. The fact we didn't pass the public option *** everyone. Now we have mandated insurance but it's not anymore affordable. We've legislated people into a system that *** them over on prices. Thank you Sarah Palin for your deathpanels, I hope we create one just for you; I bet the vote would be unanimous.
I'll pull the plug myself.
Seraph.Rafik
Server: Seraph
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Posts: 1051
By Seraph.Rafik 2010-11-06 13:33:11
If you guys didnt know ObamaCare has a few exemptions.
Such as: If you are a Scientologists, Amish, Muslim or a Christian Scientist you dont have to get ObamaCare. How interesting...
So, start converting? Discuss!!!
snopes
Get this, the taxpayes will be paying for the Muslims as well.
" Those that adhere to Islam, the only major religion included in the exemption, won’t have to pay health insurance but will still be entitled to benefits because Islam has “a tradition of barring conventional insurance products because they ‘involve an element of uncertainty, gambling and the charging of interest, which is prohibited by the Koran.’”
Of course, if you are white and Christian, Jewish, or if just make too much money for the Obamists, then you are going to be the ones who will pay the Muslim bill for healthcare."
examiner
Phoenix.Excelior
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By Phoenix.Excelior 2010-11-06 13:37:44
Seraph.Rafik said: If you guys didnt know ObamaCare has a few exemptions. Such as: If you are a Scientologists, Amish, Muslim or a Christian Scientist you dont have to get ObamaCare. How interesting... So, start converting? Discuss!!! snopes Get this, the taxpayes will be paying for the Muslims as well. " Those that adhere to Islam, the only major religion included in the exemption, won’t have to pay health insurance but will still be entitled to benefits because Islam has “a tradition of barring conventional insurance products because they ‘involve an element of uncertainty, gambling and the charging of interest, which is prohibited by the Koran.’” Of course, if you are white and Christian, Jewish, or if just make too much money for the Obamists, then you are going to be the ones who will pay the Muslim bill for healthcare." examiner
lol. I think we should just ban devote muslims from america because they're the ONLY religion that does not assimilate with other religions. I have no problem letting people have their religion or culture but when it starts to distort that of america in its entirity it's a problem.
edit: I know we can't do that.
Seraph.Rafik
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By Seraph.Rafik 2010-11-06 13:43:32
Sometimes, I really wonder what ever has happened to the Separation of Church and State in the US over the past few years?
Phoenix.Excelior
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By Phoenix.Excelior 2010-11-06 13:55:23
Seraph.Rafik said: Sometimes, I really wonder what ever has happened to the Separation of Church and State in the US over the past few years?
I dont think it needs to be as strict as it has been. I dont see a problem with Christmas decor and stuff. However, the fact that some muslims in the US are trying to bring muslim law here is really really disturbing.
Bahamut.Jetackuu
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By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2010-11-06 13:59:51
Phoenix.Excelior said: Seraph.Rafik said: Sometimes, I really wonder what ever has happened to the Separation of Church and State in the US over the past few years?
I dont think it needs to be as strict as it has been. I dont see a problem with Christmas decor and stuff. However, the fact that some muslims in the US are trying to bring muslim law here is really really disturbing. only as disturbing as christian law here.
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Phoenix.Excelior
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By Phoenix.Excelior 2010-11-06 14:03:08
Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Phoenix.Excelior said: Seraph.Rafik said: Sometimes, I really wonder what ever has happened to the Separation of Church and State in the US over the past few years? I dont think it needs to be as strict as it has been. I dont see a problem with Christmas decor and stuff. However, the fact that some muslims in the US are trying to bring muslim law here is really really disturbing. only as disturbing as christian law here.
I don't wanna argue with you but idk that many "christian" laws. Maybe we have a few but I don't think they're to the degree of forcing women to cover their bodies and oppressing people.
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By Asura.Emoneaone 2010-11-06 14:04:32
Seraph.Rafik said: Sometimes, I really wonder what ever has happened to the Separation of Church and State in the US over the past few years?
There is no true basis for the "separation of church and state." It is a misinterpretation of the constitution. Congress can't make an official state religion and can't pass laws to keep you from practicing your religion. That is the correct interpretation.
This "keep religion as far as possible from state" is a crock, imo.
Go ahead and rate me down. I expect it.
Phoenix.Excelior
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By Phoenix.Excelior 2010-11-06 14:09:28
Asura.Emoneaone said: Seraph.Rafik said: Sometimes, I really wonder what ever has happened to the Separation of Church and State in the US over the past few years? There is no true basis for the "separation of church and state." It is a misinterpretation of the constitution. Congress can't make an official state religion and can't pass laws to keep you from practicing your religion. That is the correct interpretation. This "keep religion as far as possible from state" is a crock, imo. Go ahead and rate me down. I expect it.
You're right. Unfortunately, we consider the constitution to be a living document and society evolves past its original meaning.
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By Asura.Emoneaone 2010-11-06 14:14:44
Phoenix.Excelior said: Asura.Emoneaone said: Seraph.Rafik said: Sometimes, I really wonder what ever has happened to the Separation of Church and State in the US over the past few years? There is no true basis for the "separation of church and state." It is a misinterpretation of the constitution. Congress can't make an official state religion and can't pass laws to keep you from practicing your religion. That is the correct interpretation. This "keep religion as far as possible from state" is a crock, imo. Go ahead and rate me down. I expect it.
You're right. Unfortunately, we consider the constitution to be a living document and society evolves past its original meaning. I don't consider it a living document. If you want to change it, get an amendment. Otherwise it should be interpreted as written. Otherwise there is no constancy, all just changes as whims come up.
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Phoenix.Excelior
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By Phoenix.Excelior 2010-11-06 14:19:49
Asura.Emoneaone said: Phoenix.Excelior said: Asura.Emoneaone said: Seraph.Rafik said: Sometimes, I really wonder what ever has happened to the Separation of Church and State in the US over the past few years? There is no true basis for the "separation of church and state." It is a misinterpretation of the constitution. Congress can't make an official state religion and can't pass laws to keep you from practicing your religion. That is the correct interpretation. This "keep religion as far as possible from state" is a crock, imo. Go ahead and rate me down. I expect it. You're right. Unfortunately, we consider the constitution to be a living document and society evolves past its original meaning. I don't consider it a living document. If you want to change it, get an amendment. Otherwise it should be interpreted as written. Otherwise there is no constancy, all just changes as whims come up.
You aren't actually changing it; the interpretation is what changes. Almost all of the issues we face today are not addressed in the constitution but we can't pass an amendment for every single issue. I agree that we shouldn't do something radical and change the entire meaning of the document but like all language it's subject to common understanding.
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By Asura.Emoneaone 2010-11-06 14:37:01
Phoenix.Excelior said: Asura.Emoneaone said: Phoenix.Excelior said: Asura.Emoneaone said: Seraph.Rafik said: Sometimes, I really wonder what ever has happened to the Separation of Church and State in the US over the past few years? There is no true basis for the "separation of church and state." It is a misinterpretation of the constitution. Congress can't make an official state religion and can't pass laws to keep you from practicing your religion. That is the correct interpretation. This "keep religion as far as possible from state" is a crock, imo. Go ahead and rate me down. I expect it. You're right. Unfortunately, we consider the constitution to be a living document and society evolves past its original meaning. I don't consider it a living document. If you want to change it, get an amendment. Otherwise it should be interpreted as written. Otherwise there is no constancy, all just changes as whims come up.
You aren't actually changing it; the interpretation is what changes. Almost all of the issues we face today are not addressed in the constitution but we can't pass an amendment for every single issue. I agree that we shouldn't do something radical and change the entire meaning of the document but like all language it's subject to common understanding. Changing the interpretation changes the document. It no longer means what it did. It expands this clause, contracts that one. We don't need amendments for each issue, but if you want to change the meaning, the interpretation of significant portions you should do so via the procedure outlined, not as the whim of a few judges. Look at the contortions that are now placed on the commerce clause, in order to allow the Fed to meddle in virtually anything. Heck, they are using it to validate the mandate for health insurance. FAR from what the original wording and intent was. Living document theory lets you twist and twirl it into any shape you wish by judicial fiat, rather than by consent of the governed. It takes power away from the people, where it should reside.
I'm just an old fashioned states rights, minimal government kinda guy. Not sophisticated enough for this nuanced age. Sad but true.
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By Asura.Emoneaone 2010-11-06 14:41:55
Asura.Halloween said: You can't shut down your cognition and recite 200 year old documents for every problem. The world has changed since the 1700's. New situations demand different solutions. It's almost like checking a science book from 1200 and reading about our wondrous geocentric model of the universe. Things change.
Things change, true. The constitution is an outline of government and its power and limitations, not a set of laws. Your legislature passes laws within that framework to deal with problems. You come up with solutions within that framework. If you want to adjust the framework, do so in accordance to the rules outlined in the framework. Living document has the framework changed without the consent of the governed, which is part of what the framework is all about.
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Lakshmi.Jaerik
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By Lakshmi.Jaerik 2010-11-06 14:46:11
The Tea Party got the Republicans enormous gains in the House, but appears to have cost them the Senate seats in Delaware, Nevada, Colorado, and now Alaska as well, which is kind of interesting given that it's Palin's home state.
It's going to be interesting to watch what the Tea Party vs. Republican dynamic will be over the next two years. With a split Congress, nothing will even get to a vote in the Senate unless the House is willing to compromise with the Democrats, which they won't.
There will be no repeal of Obamacare, likely no extension of the Bush tax cuts, nothing of any real consequence. Just a whole lot of screaming and finger-pointing, with the only real winners being the 24/7 partisan channels stoking the fires.
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By Asura.Emoneaone 2010-11-06 14:50:58
Asura.Halloween said: You can't have a true democracy ruling the land. this has been brought up 100 times. If you just left it up to state governments to issue popular votes, we'd still have slavery in the south. Tons of human rights laws would be nonexistent. We would be paying no taxes, yet still be expecting quality government services on everything. Or everything would be privatized and the government wouldn't really exist.
oh...gogo teabaggers Might want to double check the constitution. It isn't an outline for a true democracy but a representative republic.
The abolition of slavery wasn't done via "Living Document" theory. There is the 13th amendment, after all!
Lakshmi.Jaerik
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By Lakshmi.Jaerik 2010-11-06 14:55:41
The Supreme Court also has final say in interpretation of what the Constitution says -- not us -- and that right is, well... granted by the Constitution.
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By Asura.Emoneaone 2010-11-06 15:07:57
Lakshmi.Jaerik said: The Supreme Court also has final say in interpretation of what the Constitution says -- not us -- and that right is, well... granted by the Constitution.
Using the living document theory the Court also skewed the commerce clause out of all recognition.
The "wall of separation" wasn't cited by the Court until 1878, so close to 100 years had passed. The statement by Jefferson was a reassurance to religious leaders that the state wouldn't mess with them. The "wall" was to be a one way wall, in my view. Keeping the government from messing with religion. Not saying that no hint of religion or faith can come near to anything dealing with the government.
It's the theory of a living document that judges use to reinterpret the constitution I object to.
Phoenix.Excelior
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By Phoenix.Excelior 2010-11-06 15:08:35
Glenn Beck only agrees with the constitution when it agrees with him. Otherwise he'd have to agree with the court's decisions because the constitution grants the powers to the courts. Most people who claim they care about the constitutions are either liars or uneducated. In the end everyone basis their opinion off of their own ideology and the constitution comes second.
Yowch!
Reporters are just grilling him. Just watching him field questions is grueling. It makes me feel bad for the guy in a way.
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