While some points are made here that are decent most of the must haves are rather subjective I personally will /sam over /nin in almost every occasion unless fighting something with high damaging AoE's that are absorbed by shadows. With a large enmity down in a waltz set if you pull hate something has probably gone very wrong in which case you can throw fan dance up for a few seconds then cancel it and re samba and have third eye to fall back on even then as well as throw a violent flourish, I though prefer a max potency set since I have a large ammount of the gear for it from other jobs (CHR gear from BST/BRD Roundel was bought specifically for dnc though) and have found this for almost all I do to be the most efficient use of my TP while rarely pulling hate or running my timers on empty. If I am needing to ride my timers that much for waltz for the anwig at that point /sam would excel in maintaining a spammable TP level as well as allowing you to move out of the AoE range for a minute and still have 2x the fallback TP of relying on no foot rise alone.
One of the few times I play with /nin on my DNC is when I play it as a tank in low man groups in which case an enmity build would replace my potency build for waltz as well as a high enmity set being used for animated flourish and a HP cheat set for the dnc "cure cheat".
Ninian's DNC Guide
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Ninian's DNC Guide
what about getting a magic accuracy dagger for certain mobs where stun is a priority? i mean the dagger itself isnt all that bad to full time with it's dmg/delay and all.
Leviathan.Yurimi said: While some points are made here that are decent most of the must haves are rather subjective I personally will /sam over /nin in almost every occasion unless fighting something with high damaging AoE's that are absorbed by shadows. With a large enmity down in a waltz set if you pull hate something has probably gone very wrong in which case you can throw fan dance up for a few seconds then cancel it and re samba and have third eye to fall back on even then as well as throw a violent flourish, I though prefer a max potency set since I have a large ammount of the gear for it from other jobs (CHR gear from BST/BRD Roundel was bought specifically for dnc though) and have found this for almost all I do to be the most efficient use of my TP while rarely pulling hate or running my timers on empty. If I am needing to ride my timers that much for waltz for the anwig at that point /sam would excel in maintaining a spammable TP level as well as allowing you to move out of the AoE range for a minute and still have 2x the fallback TP of relying on no foot rise alone. One of the few times I play with /nin on my DNC is when I play it as a tank in low man groups in which case an enmity build would replace my potency build for waltz as well as a high enmity set being used for animated flourish and a HP cheat set for the dnc "cure cheat". nin for shadows sam for 3 step darkness, and the best for building tp war for double attack, blood tanking and great attack whm for self haste and bar-elementals (which is pretty much a problem lately with spells that pierce shadows) @Yurimi: My DDs play very aggressively, so if I'm not /nin, even with an -enm set I will pull hate. I prefer to not pop fandance ever as killing Samba makes my DDs... very unhappy. Perhaps it's because I'm shiny, but I never have TP problems /nin, and subbing sam would actually be way more TP than I'd ever need. That way I could probably pop in a few WSes, but honestly I'd probably pull a ton of hate and end up killing myself, would rather not. :x I suppose /sam could fit people's situations better if they're not buffed or are having tp problems, and I didn't say it was a bad sub it's just not nearly as safe as /nin.
@Yuna: You could, I've honestly thought about it. I just really REALLY hate Magians Trials. Like. Really. So bad.
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Leviathan.Niniann said: I just really REALLY hate Magians Trials. Like. Really. So bad. Yes, they're extremely boring =/ This one time in dyna I was on MNK and nini was on DNC, and well I died, true story.
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My DD's play rather rough too MNK/WAR WAR/SAM or SAM/WAR who like to autotarget over assists (cause it slows their damage) with fulltime hasso who think pulling hate and taking damage makes them a better DD. I still have no use to ride my timers on anything (especially for when the MNK's pull hate since they have rather high survivability if they are decent) and for TP as a dnc if I am not doing something I am probably not doing it right (with 4 steps to play with, samba's, waltz's etc) so TP even as /sam becomes an issue in some situations (Fafnir, Jailer of love, Jailor of Hope, Abyssea T2 Jewel NM's) even with using a 26% haste with charis neck and auric dagger while maintaining a high accuracy build. The statement that anwig is required with the waltz timer down or you should quit dnc is far from true as I do not have and dont plan on getting it and I have not had a need for it and have had DNC 75+ since the week after it came out. While it may reduce your healing waltz timer by 2 seconds if your MNK needs 500HP every time its up at the exact its up it is time to get a new one because they are not doing their job right especially if they are going all out and you still are pulling hate with waltz's in an enmity down set.
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So quick question regarding atmas...
So definitely Razed Ruin is great for WSs but which isbetter between these two: Stout Arm: STR: Major Att: Superior -or- Voracious Violet: STR: Superior Double Attack: Minor Regain: Minor. I'm not sure!!!
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Fenrir.Snick said: Voracious Violet. Thanks again Nin, I tweaked my TP setup (aka stopped using full aurore) and yeah its been nuts since, also added more ACC gear for steps like you show and that has improved a lot.
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Freaking awsome guide Ninian, thanks for taking the time.
Few responces. Somone asked about Pyrrhic Kleos, having used it a lot in game i can pretty much say its ok, but could be better. Pre level rise, it was useful in situations where acc was uncapped for either yourself or other pt members, or when you wanted to solo darkness. Due to the str/dex mod and higher att mod, its a great toy on higher def mobs but in those cases you are most likely going to want to save your tp for cures etc. As a DD, spamming evis with razed ruin or DE outside of abyssea will usually end up doing more dmg than taking the time to set up a solo darkness. Anwig Salade is a fun piece, and really not many DNC i know would think to aug it as a waltz piece. As far as it being a 'highly situational' piece as someone said, yes, true but brilliant secret - make 2 macros, one with anwig, one with etoile. Sub jobs. /nin on almost anything hard, and especially solo, is a staple. Tried and tested and no excuse - losing a shadow or 2 is better than taking hate and having to spam cure yourself from heavy hits. In the end, /sam may have you losing more tp than you gain if you habitually take hate, as well as increasing your own hate at the same time. I play dnc as a tank a lot so /war is a favourite of mine, especially in low difficulty situations, eg: dynamis. If first voking vs higher strength mobs, /nin would still come out tops. As far as a macc dagger for stuns, really if stun is THAT much of a priority, you should have either a drk~blm or a blu with you. DNC stuns are nice, especially solo, but if your facing a mob where a single resist means death or something such, then bring a friend. DNC in endgame...is god. Honestly, if you can melee it, dnc will usually be useful. If you cant melee it...well yeh, i can understand saying DNC is useless, but thats very rare. Thew vs charis: 99 times in 100, charis wins. Thew really only works for a dedicated str build on PK - almost useless, especially considering the DEX mod is higher anyhow. Trials are a asspain. Nuff said. @Yurimi Problem being, most DDs are idiots and abysseas was like an idiocy injection. Having personally had to ride my timers on more than one occasion, Anwig is an incredibly useful piece. I do agree on it being situational tho. Last point, waltz III is best for hp cured over time, agreed, but dont write off waltz IV. At times a tank or DD with take massive damage from a mob that requires a large single cure. Situations like mnk type 2hrs or tp move spam, where the mob will 'usually' be dead before even the 8~10 second recast on waltz III will be up, but that extra 200~300 hp cure can be a life saver.
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seiri said: Freaking awsome guide Ninian, thanks for taking the time. Few responces. Somone asked about Pyrrhic Kleos, having used it a lot in game i can pretty much say its ok, but could be better. Pre level rise, it was useful in situations where acc was uncapped for either yourself or other pt members, or when you wanted to solo darkness. Due to the str/dex mod and higher att mod, its a great toy on higher def mobs but in those cases you are most likely going to want to save your tp for cures etc. As a DD, spamming evis with razed ruin or DE outside of abyssea will usually end up doing more dmg than taking the time to set up a solo darkness. Anwig Salade is a fun piece, and really not many DNC i know would think to aug it as a waltz piece. As far as it being a 'highly situational' piece as someone said, yes, true but brilliant secret - make 2 macros, one with anwig, one with etoile. Sub jobs. /nin on almost anything hard, and especially solo, is a staple. Tried and tested and no excuse - losing a shadow or 2 is better than taking hate and having to spam cure yourself from heavy hits. In the end, /sam may have you losing more tp than you gain if you habitually take hate, as well as increasing your own hate at the same time. I play dnc as a tank a lot so /war is a favourite of mine, especially in low difficulty situations, eg: dynamis. If first voking vs higher strength mobs, /nin would still come out tops. As far as a macc dagger for stuns, really if stun is THAT much of a priority, you should have either a drk~blm or a blu with you. DNC stuns are nice, especially solo, but if your facing a mob where a single resist means death or something such, then bring a friend. DNC in endgame...is god. Honestly, if you can melee it, dnc will usually be useful. If you cant melee it...well yeh, i can understand saying DNC is useless, but thats very rare. Thew vs charis: 99 times in 100, charis wins. Thew really only works for a dedicated str build on PK - almost useless, especially considering the DEX mod is higher anyhow. Trials are a asspain. Nuff said. @Yurimi Problem being, most DDs are idiots and abysseas was like an idiocy injection. Having personally had to ride my timers on more than one occasion, Anwig is an incredibly useful piece. I do agree on it being situational tho. Last point, waltz III is best for hp cured over time, agreed, but dont write off waltz IV. At times a tank or DD with take massive damage from a mob that requires a large single cure. Situations like mnk type 2hrs or tp move spam, where the mob will 'usually' be dead before even the 8~10 second recast on waltz III will be up, but that extra 200~300 hp cure can be a life saver. Asura.Yunalaysca said: seiri said: Freaking awsome guide Ninian, thanks for taking the time. Few responces. Somone asked about Pyrrhic Kleos, having used it a lot in game i can pretty much say its ok, but could be better. Pre level rise, it was useful in situations where acc was uncapped for either yourself or other pt members, or when you wanted to solo darkness. Due to the str/dex mod and higher att mod, its a great toy on higher def mobs but in those cases you are most likely going to want to save your tp for cures etc. As a DD, spamming evis with razed ruin or DE outside of abyssea will usually end up doing more dmg than taking the time to set up a solo darkness. Anwig Salade is a fun piece, and really not many DNC i know would think to aug it as a waltz piece. As far as it being a 'highly situational' piece as someone said, yes, true but brilliant secret - make 2 macros, one with anwig, one with etoile. Sub jobs. /nin on almost anything hard, and especially solo, is a staple. Tried and tested and no excuse - losing a shadow or 2 is better than taking hate and having to spam cure yourself from heavy hits. In the end, /sam may have you losing more tp than you gain if you habitually take hate, as well as increasing your own hate at the same time. I play dnc as a tank a lot so /war is a favourite of mine, especially in low difficulty situations, eg: dynamis. If first voking vs higher strength mobs, /nin would still come out tops. As far as a macc dagger for stuns, really if stun is THAT much of a priority, you should have either a drk~blm or a blu with you. DNC stuns are nice, especially solo, but if your facing a mob where a single resist means death or something such, then bring a friend. DNC in endgame...is god. Honestly, if you can melee it, dnc will usually be useful. If you cant melee it...well yeh, i can understand saying DNC is useless, but thats very rare. Thew vs charis: 99 times in 100, charis wins. Thew really only works for a dedicated str build on PK - almost useless, especially considering the DEX mod is higher anyhow. Trials are a asspain. Nuff said. @Yurimi Problem being, most DDs are idiots and abysseas was like an idiocy injection. Having personally had to ride my timers on more than one occasion, Anwig is an incredibly useful piece. I do agree on it being situational tho. Last point, waltz III is best for hp cured over time, agreed, but dont write off waltz IV. At times a tank or DD with take massive damage from a mob that requires a large single cure. Situations like mnk type 2hrs or tp move spam, where the mob will 'usually' be dead before even the 8~10 second recast on waltz III will be up, but that extra 200~300 hp cure can be a life saver. Daww thankies :D I came in this thread expecting a loldnc to post how they do thing in completely wrong way. I leave disappointed, you know what's what.
On the subject of subjobs, I usually roll /SAM if I'm doing things like when I was doing Parazonium trials or limbus. Any party situation where you both (a) have no chance of stealing hate due to a capable mage and (b) will not get your ***wrecked if you do. Also if you're soloing anything DC or weaker, EM if you have a solid evasion build. /NIN is for when you're fighting stronger things or kiting or what have you. Those are really the only two you need. As for group 2 merits (for group 1 there are no questions), I would say max out No Foot Rise. It's basically a free weaponskill button. You shouldn't be relying on in which I've seen happen before, sometimes people just use it and sit there with 5 moves gathering dust. Then put one in sabre dance for farming/trials/soloing weak ***. On EP mobs, you can just go DNC/SAM, put that up and drain and you never have to cure yourself, can just spam weaponskills at a worrying pace. Put all the rest into fan dance. It helps to refresh it when you're doing stronger NMs. I've soloed Khalimari a few times get V. Helms for people, and it kept spamming it's weaker AoE move which was wearing fan dance down. Being able to reapply it early saved me a lot of bother. Many NM's are like that. One more thing, there are no excuses for using Wild Flourish. If you find yourself reaching for it, do yourself a favour and switch to THF or something.
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Are you sure about feather step being magic-accuracy based? While fighting Puks in Vunkerl, it very often misses while under the effect of Obfuscate (flash), but almost never otherwise in a normal step set. Since I don't think flash has any effect on magic accuracy, this seems to be a contradiction.
Carbuncle.Asymptotic said: Are you sure about feather step being magic-accuracy based? While fighting Puks in Vunkerl, it very often misses while under the effect of Obfuscate (flash), but almost never otherwise in a normal step set. Since I don't think flash has any effect on magic accuracy, this seems to be a contradiction. I haven't directly tested it, I was pretty certain that being able to trigger 'grellow' gave it a magical property, also with my acc step build it would miss frequently (I'd say around 40-50%). I don't have any parses to show, but with the macc build my accuracy increased a lot, probably putting it back at the 80-90% accuracy range. Perhaps it has two checks... I guess I could test it sometime, but I'm not really sure on what or how. :/ Wait, do we have proof it can trigger grellow? I thought the 24 spell guide was widly accepted as what triggers.
 Pretty sure there's no filters (Not my SS) because only myself and Thorny were the ones doing anything. Feather Step would also be counted as Light Element and it was like Darksday or something, idr. Seems odd considering everyone on BG (including your b/f) has gone on about how we have the 24 spell list and its set and NOTHING else can possibly trigger grellow.
I would like to see this replicated before I accept it did cause it. 100% sure there wasnt someone else around fighting a different NM? Sylph.Kimble said: Seems odd considering everyone on BG (including your b/f) has gone on about how we have the 24 spell list and its set and NOTHING else can possibly trigger grellow. I would like to see this replicated before I accept it did cause it. 100% sure there wasnt someone else around fighting a different NM? It was grellow on our mob, lol. Could've been someone else in the party... but I really highly doubt that. If it ever happens again I'll post it but I don't exactly go DNC to most NMs. Also as for the spell list, I pretty much just assumed that's all the spells that are the easiest to access, plus people don't bother documenting things properly. Much easier to do BLU NIN BRD Mage spells than bring a DNC for one little step. The 24 spell list is defended so staunchly mostly because the people who disagree with it generally can't be bothered to post conclusive screenshots. I can't say for certain if Feather Step actually procs or not though, can't recall any instances where we've seen that happen.
i'm all for giving dnc an excuse to be "needed" more than they are for NMs, but in my personaly experience i have yet to trigger yellow with my steps....
I'm assuming only Feather Step and maybe Violent Flourish could possibly trigger Grellow during the appropriate time periods. Lightning/Light/Darksdays
Hmm. I've just been macroing in my acc gear for Feather Step, and I can't say I've noticed it missing any more than the other steps or anything like that. Of course, I'm just eyeballing it so I don't know. Might be worth testing.
I'd suspect they just wanted to give DNC a reason to be wanted in abyssea NM farming though. I've never taken it to any abyssea event, always asked to come on RDM or RNG. I've soloed Khalimari and some other NMs on DNC though and I don't remember triggering anything. Maybe the other steps can trigger it too or something. Maybe flourishes too. Interesting though, I'll show this to the rest of the linkshell saying "this is why I'm coming on DNC tonight D:." comin back on this :
Quote: Get an Anwig Salade. Now. I don't care if you're poor, I don't care if your mommy doesn't want to pay for it, go mow some lawns and buy the expansion. It is an absolute MUST. Must must must must must. If you have another augment for another job, FIX IT. If you love that job more than DNC, stop playing DNC. You need this hat with -waltz timer. So, so much. it happen i needed head for get thf5 atma so i went and look for it...and i discover its -2% Delay!!! yeah its not wiki, but go check tresor cascket and its there. so on a 10sec recast u get... 0.2sec i'm wrong ? Man so USEFULL... No it's a straight -2sec off your waltz.
Turns waltz III from 10sec to 8sec.  It's -2 sec. I use it all the time, my recast is 8sec, I don't know what you want. Go augment it and test it :s But I'm not lying, nor am I stupid.
Leviathan.Niniann said: Sylph.Kimble said: Seems odd considering everyone on BG (including your b/f) has gone on about how we have the 24 spell list and its set and NOTHING else can possibly trigger grellow. I would like to see this replicated before I accept it did cause it. 100% sure there wasnt someone else around fighting a different NM? That one image for feather step isn't showing up for me since it's blocked by my work but if it's the one I recall, isn't there an attempt to cast a threnody above? That always made me kinda suspicious, hehe. |
's which dramatically increase the droprate of the designated 'rare' item. Between the hours of 22-6 in game time a MNK+WHM with h2h/club/staff skilled/WSNMs done can proc 
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