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23% Haste Reckoning +1 VS. 26% Haste Apoc
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1255
By Shiva.Khimaira 2010-10-14 18:13:10
Odin.Zicdeh said: BLU's not a job, try again!
Neither is DRK.
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Phoenix.Fredjan
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2326
By Phoenix.Fredjan 2010-10-14 18:13:23
Bahamut.Dasva said:
OR 1 good blu. I used stun lock during HF on blu
Or that....
Phoenix.Fredjan
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2326
By Phoenix.Fredjan 2010-10-14 18:14:57
Shiva.Khimaira said:
Neither is DRK.
[sarcasm]
The only real jobs are:
1.- WHM
2.- RDM
3.- BRD
4.- COR
5.- DNC
6.- SAM
7.- SAM
8.- SAM
9.- SAM
10.- SAM
etc
[/sarcasm]
holy hell I missed two jobs:
BLM
AFKTHF/BLM using thf's knife/relic hands/th feet/dread atma using vir subligar.
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1255
By Shiva.Khimaira 2010-10-14 18:17:46
Phoenix.Fredjan said: Shiva.Khimaira said: Neither is DRK. [sarcasm] The only real jobs are: 1.- WHM 2.- RDM 3.- BRD 4.- COR 5.- DNC 6.- SAM 7.- SAM 8.- SAM 9.- SAM 10.- SAM etc [/sarcasm]
Forgot WAR, but yar. wait DNC?
Phoenix.Fredjan
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2326
By Phoenix.Fredjan 2010-10-14 18:18:51
Shiva.Khimaira said: Phoenix.Fredjan said: Shiva.Khimaira said: Neither is DRK. [sarcasm] The only real jobs are: 1.- WHM 2.- RDM 3.- BRD 4.- COR 5.- DNC 6.- SAM 7.- SAM 8.- SAM 9.- SAM 10.- SAM etc [/sarcasm]
Forgot BLM,... ftfy, somehow I forgot blm
Leviathan.Solanis
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 210
By Leviathan.Solanis 2010-10-14 18:20:20
every job is useful in its own way, even blu and drg :P
well, except nin I guess
Phoenix.Fredjan
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2326
By Phoenix.Fredjan 2010-10-14 18:21:49
Leviathan.Solanis said: every job is useful in its own way, even blu and drg :P
well, except nin I guess was sarcasm, but yes.
Bahamut.Aeronis
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1838
By Bahamut.Aeronis 2010-10-14 18:26:05
Leviathan.Solanis said: every job is useful in its own way, even blu and drg :P well, except nin I guess Oh don't even get me started on NIN >_> atma, super-cool now, 2010, etc.
Quetzalcoatl.Giazz
Server: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1308
By Quetzalcoatl.Giazz 2010-10-14 18:45:21
Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Quetzalcoatl.Giazz said: Phoenix.Excelior said: Quetzalcoatl.Giazz said: Oh Raen, I'm sure we'll get some more elemental spells to go with that Magic Attack Bonus gear. There's nothing to worry about.
They should give us an ability that makes our spells give TP = to the damage we do. That wouldn't even be broken but would be useful.
A fix to Occult Acumen would be nice, yes. My theory on Occult Acumen is that eventually BLU will get it. Anything beyond the current incarnation has potential to be overpowered in the hands of a BLU given that it's the one job that can truly capitalize on the TP gain, so they created the initial trait and will release a second tier at some point for DRK, BLM, and SCH. Will that make it worthwhile for any of those jobs? Probably not unless they rework BLM/SCH weapons... and I dunno if they could ever make it truly useful for DRK. Just my theory.
EDIT: Though my theory was based on 10% when it's apparently 2.5% for T1 of the trait? What the *** SE, what the ***.
Yeah, DRK gets a higher tier of Occult Acumen now, making it 10% of an elemental or dark magic damaging spell's MP cost to TP. Such as Drain II being MP cost of 37, and giving a 3 TP return. ( Drain II used to give 2 TP before update etc.)
Also, DRK AF3+1 feet [Enhance's "Occult Acumen" effect] changes the MP to TP modifier from .1 to .115 (15% increase)
Apparently, lv85 BLM testing shows that the initial tier of Occult Acumen that BLM got is 2.5% of MP cost to TP though, so yeah.
As for Blu getting it... it's certainly a possibility, but who knows.
In regards to DRK, I would like seeing a change in Occult Acumen...making spells such as Drain and DrainII give TP that is equal to the TP we get with a melee hit.
Maybe do the same for tierIII elemental spells as well(spell TP equal to the amount of TP we would get with a melee hit), though elemental spells still wouldn't be worth casting while meleeing in most situations. (under high haste situations specially)
Then perhaps have low damage/low recast spells such as stone, Bio, Bio 2 etc. give at most 1 to 3 TP. (Bio II currently gives 3 TP, thus would be staying the same etc.)
What's more likely to happen, if DRK's occult acumen gets a boost later on, is a continuation of the MP cost to TP pattern. They'll probably just increase its percent modifier. I suppose it's better than no TP for spells though...
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 223
By Asura.Sabishii 2010-10-14 18:55:56
Quetzalcoatl.Giazz said:
As for Blu getting it... it's certainly a possibility, but who knows.
BLU and Occult Acumen WOULD be broken for BLU *IF* it worked with blue magic, its says elemental and dark magic, it doesn't mention blue magic. Does a DRK/BLU get TP for casting blue magic?
Bahamut.Aeronis
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1838
By Bahamut.Aeronis 2010-10-14 18:57:43
Quetzalcoatl.Giazz said: Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Quetzalcoatl.Giazz said: Phoenix.Excelior said: Quetzalcoatl.Giazz said: Oh Raen, I'm sure we'll get some more elemental spells to go with that Magic Attack Bonus gear. There's nothing to worry about. They should give us an ability that makes our spells give TP = to the damage we do. That wouldn't even be broken but would be useful. A fix to Occult Acumen would be nice, yes. My theory on Occult Acumen is that eventually BLU will get it. Anything beyond the current incarnation has potential to be overpowered in the hands of a BLU given that it's the one job that can truly capitalize on the TP gain, so they created the initial trait and will release a second tier at some point for DRK, BLM, and SCH. Will that make it worthwhile for any of those jobs? Probably not unless they rework BLM/SCH weapons... and I dunno if they could ever make it truly useful for DRK. Just my theory. EDIT: Though my theory was based on 10% when it's apparently 2.5% for T1 of the trait? What the *** SE, what the ***. Yeah, DRK gets a higher tier of Occult Acumen now, making it 10% of an elemental or dark magic damaging spell's MP cost to TP. Such as Drain II being MP cost of 37, and giving a 3 TP return. ( Drain II used to give 2 TP before update etc.) Also, DRK AF3+1 feet [Enhance's "Occult Acumen" effect] changes the MP to TP modifier from .1 to .115 (15% increase) Apparently, lv85 BLM testing shows that the initial tier of Occult Acumen that BLM got is 2.5% of MP cost to TP though, so yeah. As for Blu getting it... it's certainly a possibility, but who knows. In regards to DRK, I would like seeing a change in Occult Acumen...making spells such as Drain and DrainII give TP that is equal to the TP we get with a melee hit. Maybe do the same for tierIII elemental spells as well(spell TP equal to the amount of TP we would get with a melee hit), though elemental spells still wouldn't be worth casting while meleeing in most situations. (under high haste situations specially) Then perhaps have low damage/low recast spells such as stone, Bio, Bio 2 etc. give at most 1 to 3 TP. (Bio II currently gives 3 TP, thus would be staying the same etc.) What's more likely to happen, if DRK's occult acumen gets a boost later on, is a continuation of the MP to TP pattern. They'll probably just increase its percent modifier. I suppose it's better than no TP for spells though... I just would like to say for BLM and SCH gaining TP, I'm sure there's a rule you can use on Spellcast for this. IE: If you have TP>0, don't swap weapon and swap to that torque.
Bahamut.Dasva
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13835
By Bahamut.Dasva 2010-10-14 19:14:28
Bahamut.Aeronis said: I just would like to say for BLM and SCH gaining TP, I'm sure there's a rule you can use on Spellcast for this. IE: If you have TP>0, don't swap weapon and swap to that torque. Yeah I was thinking about that. Hell could just not swap to a idle staff. I'd still swap out for casting but meh
Bahamut.Aeronis
Server: Bahamut
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Posts: 1838
By Bahamut.Aeronis 2010-10-14 19:26:49
Bahamut.Dasva said: Bahamut.Aeronis said: I just would like to say for BLM and SCH gaining TP, I'm sure there's a rule you can use on Spellcast for this. IE: If you have TP>0, don't swap weapon and swap to that torque. Yeah I was thinking about that. Hell could just not swap to a idle staff. I'd still swap out for casting but meh As long as you aren't casting back to back, it seems like it could be effective.
Side note: This seems like an awesome torque for melee RDM.
Edit: Nuuuuuuuuuuuu, RDM isn't on the list of jobs that can use it, nevermind ;________;
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11680
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-10-14 19:28:10
Bahamut.Dasva said: Bahamut.Aeronis said: I just would like to say for BLM and SCH gaining TP, I'm sure there's a rule you can use on Spellcast for this. IE: If you have TP>0, don't swap weapon and swap to that torque. Yeah I was thinking about that. Hell could just not swap to a idle staff. I'd still swap out for casting but meh At that point, why not just go for owleyes?
Quote: Side note: This seems like an awesome torque for melee RDM. RDM can't wear it. Neither can BLU, which annoys me quite a bit.
Bahamut.Dasva
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13835
By Bahamut.Dasva 2010-10-14 19:30:14
Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Bahamut.Dasva said: Bahamut.Aeronis said: I just would like to say for BLM and SCH gaining TP, I'm sure there's a rule you can use on Spellcast for this. IE: If you have TP>0, don't swap weapon and swap to that torque. Yeah I was thinking about that. Hell could just not swap to a idle staff. I'd still swap out for casting but meh At that point, why not just go for owleyes? Cause the torque is alot easier to get. Have you read up on the owleyes mob?
Server: Fenrir
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-10-14 19:31:07
Not really, have no incentive to go after it right now.
[+]
Bahamut.Aeronis
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1838
By Bahamut.Aeronis 2010-10-14 19:31:19
Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Bahamut.Dasva said: Bahamut.Aeronis said: I just would like to say for BLM and SCH gaining TP, I'm sure there's a rule you can use on Spellcast for this. IE: If you have TP>0, don't swap weapon and swap to that torque. Yeah I was thinking about that. Hell could just not swap to a idle staff. I'd still swap out for casting but meh At that point, why not just go for owleyes? Not to go into the whole "Only this person can obtain x item because they only have x time", but not everyone can kill the Orcus NM. This is from the bomb NM, which I'm sure is much easier to obtain. That doesn't go to say that this torque is better than Owleyes, but it's an alternative solution until you do happen to get one.
Bahamut.Aeronis
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1838
By Bahamut.Aeronis 2010-10-14 19:32:07
Bahamut.Dasva said: Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Bahamut.Dasva said: Bahamut.Aeronis said: I just would like to say for BLM and SCH gaining TP, I'm sure there's a rule you can use on Spellcast for this. IE: If you have TP>0, don't swap weapon and swap to that torque. Yeah I was thinking about that. Hell could just not swap to a idle staff. I'd still swap out for casting but meh At that point, why not just go for owleyes? Cause the torque is alot easier to get. Have you read up on the owleyes mob? uh.. yea, that.
Bahamut.Dasva
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13835
By Bahamut.Dasva 2010-10-14 19:33:39
Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Not really, have no incentive to go after it right now. You have to bring another NM on top of the spawn area and then it spawns helpers lol
Bahamut.Aeronis
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1838
By Bahamut.Aeronis 2010-10-14 19:34:06
Fenrir.Nightfyre said: RDM can't wear it. Neither can BLU, which annoys me quite a bit. Bahamut.Aeronis said: Edit: Nuuuuuuuuuuuu, RDM isn't on the list of jobs that can use it, nevermind ;________;
Server: Fenrir
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Posts: 11680
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-10-14 19:34:12
Bahamut.Dasva said: Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Not really, have no incentive to go after it right now. You have to bring another NM on top of the spawn area and then it spawns helpers lol I'm aware of that much, are the adds such an issue that it's not easily lowmanned?
Bahamut.Dasva
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13835
By Bahamut.Dasva 2010-10-14 19:43:10
Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Bahamut.Dasva said: Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Not really, have no incentive to go after it right now. You have to bring another NM on top of the spawn area and then it spawns helpers lol I'm aware of that much, are the adds such an issue that it's not easily lowmanned? Not sure. Hardly any info. But I'd imagine to low man it you'd need a few soloist lol. Hmm says it kills the other nm lol but will pit ambush new mobs in.
Quetzalcoatl.Giazz
Server: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1308
By Quetzalcoatl.Giazz 2010-10-14 20:43:19
Asura.Sabishii said: Quetzalcoatl.Giazz said:
As for Blu getting it... it's certainly a possibility, but who knows.
BLU and Occult Acumen WOULD be broken for BLU *IF* it worked with blue magic, its says elemental and dark magic, it doesn't mention blue magic. Does a DRK/BLU get TP for casting blue magic?
Right, Occult Acumen only works on damaging Elemental or Dark magic spells.
If they give it to Blu, SE would have to change how the jobtrait works. How good it would be, would depend on how much TP they get etc.
What I meant initially was that anything is certainly possible (who knows what SE has planned for lv86-99, adjustments etc.), not that it is very likely that BLU will get it, in fact, I doubt it.
So I was bored today camping KA realizing Vbelt was one of the few things my DRK currently needs, and was curious as to how fast a current max Haste Build 5-Hit Reckoning Compares to Apoc in terms of TP build. When I say max haste I mean as in realistic gear that Drk can use which puts it at 23% Haste.
This was the gear set that I had in mind.
I Don't have an E:body so I put Nocturnus Mail which I do have in this set.
The conclusion I came across was that Reckoning +1 at 23% haste will actually Build TP 1 Second faster than Apocalypse 6-hit at 26% Haste.
I used FFXI Calculator to get these numbers and this is what I came Across.
Reckoning +1 5-hit 23% Haste.
With 2x March Haste and 5/5 haste Samba
Swings every 2.8 seconds Reaching 100 TP at 14 Seconds.
You Could also put yourself at 24% Haste with Ace's hose, id probably use that during diabolic eye.
24% Haste Ace's Hose combo would Swing every 2.7 Seconds Reaching 100 TP at 13.5 seconds.
Apocalypse 6-hit 26% Haste.
With 2x March Haste and 5/5 haste Samba
Swings every 2.5 seconds Reaching 100 TP at 15 Seconds.
I am not honestly sure how they compare, but I could see this combo beating a 6-hit Apoc build if you have the luxury of all that haste gear. You obviously have a higher WS frequency which could come ontop. But reckoning is only a 112 Damage scythe Vs. a 130 Damage scythe that can occassionally do double damage. But with Reckoning you can Spam Guillotine Vs. Spamming Catastrophe which in my strong opinion is a pretty Shit WS.
Also before I get flamed I have access to my friends Apoc DRK account which I Play frequently, so I dont want to hear Apoc Drks flaming me saying YOU HAVENT USED APOC OMG YOU DONT KNOW WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT, I happen to use Apoc all the time~
I just did the math and decided to post it so people can discuss so please do so, very curious as to what others think about this over all.
-Gradd
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