Will PLD Be Useful Again At Lvl 99?

Eorzea Time
 
 
 
Language: JP EN FR DE
users online
Forum » FFXI » Jobs » Paladin » Will PLD be useful again at lvl 99?
Will PLD be useful again at lvl 99?
First Page 2 3 ... 15 16 17 ... 24 25 26
 Phoenix.Excelior
Offline
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
user: Excelior
Posts: 2093
By Phoenix.Excelior 2010-10-13 20:57:33
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Odin.Zicdeh said:
Phoenix.Excelior said:
Consider I've made a career out of tanking I think I know quite a bit.
Donald Trump made a career out of being rich, and still had to file for Bankruptcy protection.

Did you even read what I posted or are you just being a troll?

 Bahamut.Dasva
Offline
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
user: dasva
Posts: 13835
By Bahamut.Dasva 2010-10-13 21:00:59
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Odin.Zicdeh said:
Phoenix.Excelior said:
Consider I've made a career out of tanking I think I know quite a bit.
Donald Trump made a career out of being rich, and still had to file for Bankruptcy protection.
I lol'd. Also partly from the calling tanking a career
 Fenrir.Snick
Offline
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
user: Snick
Posts: 906
By Fenrir.Snick 2010-10-13 21:01:50
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Excelior didn't say he made a career out of PLD. PLD can't tank!
 Odin.Zicdeh
Offline
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6558
By Odin.Zicdeh 2010-10-13 21:02:26
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Phoenix.Excelior said:
Odin.Zicdeh said:
Phoenix.Excelior said:
Consider I've made a career out of tanking I think I know quite a bit.
Donald Trump made a career out of being rich, and still had to file for Bankruptcy protection.

Did you even read what I posted or are you just being a troll?


I did read what you posted, but I'm just being a *** with that comment.

Maybe I'm just mired in the OP, but the thread is about PLD being useful, not being the best. If everyone were to just use "The best" job, FFXI would consist of BLU, RDM and BRD, and not a goddamn thing else.
 Carbuncle.Sevourn
Offline
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
user: Sevourn
Posts: 9481
By Carbuncle.Sevourn 2010-10-13 21:02:32
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Siren.Stewie said:
ITT: PLDs mad we called their job bad.


i'm honestly not mad :/

more sad that it's a more or less accurate statement
 Phoenix.Excelior
Offline
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
user: Excelior
Posts: 2093
By Phoenix.Excelior 2010-10-13 21:05:10
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Odin.Zicdeh said:
Phoenix.Excelior said:
Odin.Zicdeh said:
Phoenix.Excelior said:
Consider I've made a career out of tanking I think I know quite a bit.
Donald Trump made a career out of being rich, and still had to file for Bankruptcy protection.
Did you even read what I posted or are you just being a troll?
I did read what you posted, but I'm just being a *** with that comment. Maybe I'm just mired in the OP, but the thread is about PLD being useful, not being the best. If everyone were to just use "The best" job, FFXI would consist of BLU, RDM and BRD, and not a goddamn thing else.

But that was the point everyone was making. Why would u use a job for something that another job is generally better at? Yes, PLD can be useful then. Is PLD generally the best? No.

I meant to say FFXI Career lol. *** you guys I graduated from the College of Windurst wtih a PHD a MS and a BS

BS= Bull ***
MS= More of the same
PHD= Piled higher deeper

cliche joke etc. Peace I'm going to watch family guy.
[+]
Offline
Server: Titan
Game: FFXI
user: batboy267
Posts: 1026
By Titan.Darkwizardzin 2010-10-13 21:07:26
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Phoenix.Excelior said:
Odin.Zicdeh said:
Phoenix.Excelior said:
Sorry if you guys use ballad over march they arent intelligent tanks. (the exception here is when you arent meleeing). The hate from joytoy and atonement is > ballad III spam. Yes, there are a lot of HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE plds out there. I've been main tanking years before atonement was released, I'm fairly sure I know how to generate and cap hate. Like I said before once you're at the cap the only thing that matters is the recap rate. THose mobs are moot. If you blink tank them then any job can tank them. The only variable would be how much healing it would take.
There's a difference between Tanking something, and just taking damage. Honestly, the more I read your posts, the more I realize you really don't know anything about actually tanking something. I really don't know what else to say, I witness PLD's being used to much greater efficacy than any claims otherwise daily. Your claims and a few others' of the jobs suspect use are completely opposite of what I see on a daily basis in the game. Maybe the enmity calculations on the Odin server are different, or maybe all but a handful of Paladin's blow significant quantities of ***. I've said my piece as a third-party support that feels the job is quite effective in its given role, more than enough so to justify the use of a party/alliance slot.
Consider I've made a career out of tanking I think I know quite a bit.

Listen carefully.

If you go pld/nin about 90% of melee attacks directed at you should be absorbed by shadows.

Guess what!? Any job can /nin so almost every job takes about the same melee damage when /nin. The only exception to this are mobs that attack exceptionally fast in which case you don't blink tank. I think I clearly outlined that point because you bolded it.

Each job takes the same magic damage. (Unless pld has some -magic trait that I don't know about) Assuming this then you conclude that each job has the same damage taking capacity. You might argue Rampart and Sentinel and they are critical when holding a mob with two people, however, HNM is now dead so that point is moot.

Now that we've established that each job takes about the same physical and magical damage we move to the last aspect of tanking: Hate.

Damage is by far the greatest source of CE in the game. Guess what jobs do a lot of damage? (Hint: DDs) PLDs in theory should cap hate faster because of cure cheats but in terms of standard, constant, average, emnity gain a DD is greater. Exceptions to this are extremely high damage resistant mobs. I think we can both agree there arent many mobs out there like that.

PLD can be useful for SOME situations where u want minimal curing and you don't need to worry about hate that much. However, generally PLD is not that useful.
Sorry to sound argumentive but I just want to point something out:
Phoenix.Excelior said:
Each job takes the same magic damage.
If the pld in question has the shield relic then this point is kind of moot. I'm reasonably sure that no other job has -25% mdt plus the fact that pld has other gear that can migrate magic damage on top of that. This conbided with the fact that Aegis has a high shield block rate (for the 10% times when shadows are down) and the skills pld already has to lower the damage they take and you have a player that a monster would have a hard time killing.

So the only problems that pld have to tanking is hate in my opinion. then again its not very easy to get that shield so my point may be pointless as well.

 Phoenix.Excelior
Offline
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
user: Excelior
Posts: 2093
By Phoenix.Excelior 2010-10-13 21:10:46
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Titan.Darkwizardzin said:
Phoenix.Excelior said:
Odin.Zicdeh said:
Phoenix.Excelior said:
Sorry if you guys use ballad over march they arent intelligent tanks. (the exception here is when you arent meleeing). The hate from joytoy and atonement is > ballad III spam. Yes, there are a lot of HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE plds out there. I've been main tanking years before atonement was released, I'm fairly sure I know how to generate and cap hate. Like I said before once you're at the cap the only thing that matters is the recap rate. THose mobs are moot. If you blink tank them then any job can tank them. The only variable would be how much healing it would take.
There's a difference between Tanking something, and just taking damage. Honestly, the more I read your posts, the more I realize you really don't know anything about actually tanking something. I really don't know what else to say, I witness PLD's being used to much greater efficacy than any claims otherwise daily. Your claims and a few others' of the jobs suspect use are completely opposite of what I see on a daily basis in the game. Maybe the enmity calculations on the Odin server are different, or maybe all but a handful of Paladin's blow significant quantities of ***. I've said my piece as a third-party support that feels the job is quite effective in its given role, more than enough so to justify the use of a party/alliance slot.
Consider I've made a career out of tanking I think I know quite a bit. Listen carefully. If you go pld/nin about 90% of melee attacks directed at you should be absorbed by shadows. Guess what!? Any job can /nin so almost every job takes about the same melee damage when /nin. The only exception to this are mobs that attack exceptionally fast in which case you don't blink tank. I think I clearly outlined that point because you bolded it. Each job takes the same magic damage. (Unless pld has some -magic trait that I don't know about) Assuming this then you conclude that each job has the same damage taking capacity. You might argue Rampart and Sentinel and they are critical when holding a mob with two people, however, HNM is now dead so that point is moot. Now that we've established that each job takes about the same physical and magical damage we move to the last aspect of tanking: Hate. Damage is by far the greatest source of CE in the game. Guess what jobs do a lot of damage? (Hint: DDs) PLDs in theory should cap hate faster because of cure cheats but in terms of standard, constant, average, emnity gain a DD is greater. Exceptions to this are extremely high damage resistant mobs. I think we can both agree there arent many mobs out there like that. PLD can be useful for SOME situations where u want minimal curing and you don't need to worry about hate that much. However, generally PLD is not that useful.
Sorry to sound argumentive but I just want to point something out:
Phoenix.Excelior said:
Each job takes the same magic damage.
If the pld in question has the shield relic then this point is kind of moot. I'm reasonably sure that no other job has -25% mdt plus the fact that pld has other gear that can migrate magic damage on top of that. This conbided with the fact that Aegis has a high shield block rate (for the 10% times when shadows are down) and the skills pld already has to lower the damage they take and you have a player that a monster would have a hard time killing. So the only problems that pld have to tanking is hate in my opinion. then again its not very easy to get that shield so my point may be pointless as well.

You are correct in the assumption that aegis pld is capable of taking less damage. However, every job is capable of getting -25% magical damage and hitting the cap with shell V. Most aegis plds don't bother with a MDB set but it would be optimal and therefore an aegis would be capable of taking slightly less.

And *** its only king of the hill atm ; ;
 Bahamut.Dasva
Offline
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
user: dasva
Posts: 13835
By Bahamut.Dasva 2010-10-13 21:11:58
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Titan.Darkwizardzin said:
If the pld in question has the shield relic then this point is kind of moot. I'm reasonably sure that no other job has -25% mdt plus the fact that pld has other gear that can migrate magic damage on top of that. This conbided with the fact that Aegis has a high shield block rate (for the 10% times when shadows are down) and the skills pld already has to lower the damage they take and you have a player that a monster would have a hard time killing. So the only problems that pld have to tanking is hate in my opinion. then again its not very easy to get that shield so my point may be pointless as well.
I really hope you are being sarcastic. Because I'm reasonably sure every job can get at least 30% mdt.

Also as far as every job taking the same amount of magic dmg from the other guy... gearing and magic defense bonus job trait says high. And too a much lesser extent int values. So if you want to go with just job naked whm blu, or rdm would take less magic dmg than other jobs. Well and jobs that can use them as subjobs and still tank whatever you are fighting
[+]
 Phoenix.Excelior
Offline
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
user: Excelior
Posts: 2093
By Phoenix.Excelior 2010-10-13 21:14:10
Link | Quote | Reply
 
You could also look at damage from this standpoint:

If you use a DD tank you kill the mob faster.
If you kill faster you spend less time fighting.
If you're fighting for less time you should take less damage.
Offline
Server: Titan
Game: FFXI
user: batboy267
Posts: 1026
By Titan.Darkwizardzin 2010-10-13 21:16:16
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Bahamut.Dasva said:
Titan.Darkwizardzin said:
If the pld in question has the shield relic then this point is kind of moot. I'm reasonably sure that no other job has -25% mdt plus the fact that pld has other gear that can migrate magic damage on top of that. This conbided with the fact that Aegis has a high shield block rate (for the 10% times when shadows are down) and the skills pld already has to lower the damage they take and you have a player that a monster would have a hard time killing. So the only problems that pld have to tanking is hate in my opinion. then again its not very easy to get that shield so my point may be pointless as well.
I really hope you are being sarcastic. Because I'm reasonably sure every job can get at least 30% mdt.

Also as far as every job taking the same amount of magic dmg from the other guy... gearing and magic defense bonus job trait says high. And too a much lesser extent int values. So if you want to go with just job naked whm or rdm would take significantly less magic dmg than other jobs
Ok I didn't know that.



Still with the shield block rate a pld can still take alittle less damage then other jobs.
 Asura.Aust
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Aust101
Posts: 63
By Asura.Aust 2010-10-13 21:16:28
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Phoenix.Excelior said:
Odin.Zicdeh said:
Phoenix.Excelior said:
Odin.Zicdeh said:
Phoenix.Excelior said:
Consider I've made a career out of tanking I think I know quite a bit.
Donald Trump made a career out of being rich, and still had to file for Bankruptcy protection.
Did you even read what I posted or are you just being a troll?
I did read what you posted, but I'm just being a *** with that comment. Maybe I'm just mired in the OP, but the thread is about PLD being useful, not being the best. If everyone were to just use "The best" job, FFXI would consist of BLU, RDM and BRD, and not a goddamn thing else.

But that was the point everyone was making. Why would u use a job for something that another job is generally better at? Yes, PLD can be useful then. Is PLD generally the best? No.

I meant to say FFXI Career lol. *** you guys I graduated from the College of Windurst wtih a PHD a MS and a BS

BS= Bull ***
MS= More of the same
PHD= Piled higher deeper

cliche joke etc. Peace I'm going to watch family guy.


Watch the new south park tonight. Should be a good one.
 Bahamut.Dasva
Offline
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
user: dasva
Posts: 13835
By Bahamut.Dasva 2010-10-13 21:17:16
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Amount of dmg taken during a fight is less important than rate of damage taken.

In almost any fight you do outside of zerging you should be self sustaining
[+]
 Ramuh.Thunderz
Offline
Server: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
user: Thunderz
Posts: 4118
By Ramuh.Thunderz 2010-10-13 21:19:32
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Odin.Zicdeh said:
Phoenix.Excelior said:
Odin.Zicdeh said:
Phoenix.Excelior said:
Consider I've made a career out of tanking I think I know quite a bit.
Donald Trump made a career out of being rich, and still had to file for Bankruptcy protection.

Did you even read what I posted or are you just being a troll?


I did read what you posted, but I'm just being a *** with that comment.

Maybe I'm just mired in the OP, but the thread is about PLD being useful, not being the best. If everyone were to just use "The best" job, FFXI would consist of (SAM), RDM and BRD, and not a goddamn thing else.
 Phoenix.Excelior
Offline
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
user: Excelior
Posts: 2093
By Phoenix.Excelior 2010-10-13 21:22:14
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Bahamut.Dasva said:
Amount of dmg taken during a fight is less important than rate of damage taken. In almost any fight you do outside of zerging you should be self sustaining

Well that's not that hard to do depending on the tank. When I tank as pld I generally cure parse the highest. I cure cheat so that's skewed but generally a PLD is self supporting. Other tanks need additional healing but I guess its not a huge inconvience. Kill speed is definately a factor in certain situations. Low manning ***like Cerberus and Khimaira back in the day could *** you if you let the fight draw out too much. That is a moot point anyways, I'm really being too specific. Generally you are correct.
 Diabolos.Piraal
Offline
Server: Diabolos
Game: FFXI
user: Piraal
Posts: 55
By Diabolos.Piraal 2010-10-13 21:26:02
Link | Quote | Reply
 
I'm pretty sure most aegis pld have MDB sets, be pretty sad if they didn't, but I think it's fair to say that most DD jobs don't bother with one.
[+]
 Carbuncle.Sevourn
Offline
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
user: Sevourn
Posts: 9481
By Carbuncle.Sevourn 2010-10-13 21:27:45
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Diabolos.Piraal said:
I'm pretty sure most aegis pld have MDB sets, be pretty sad if they didn't, but I think it's fair to say that most DD jobs don't bother with one.


a relic isn't an automatic sign of a good player

as bigpun so amply demonstrated
[+]
Offline
Server: Titan
Game: FFXI
user: batboy267
Posts: 1026
By Titan.Darkwizardzin 2010-10-13 21:27:51
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Btw I looked on the forums but I couldn't find one that talked about it. Did Divine Emblem do anything to improve pld hate issues? or anything to improve there play style in general?
 Phoenix.Excelior
Offline
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
user: Excelior
Posts: 2093
By Phoenix.Excelior 2010-10-13 21:30:49
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Titan.Darkwizardzin said:
Btw I looked on the forums but I couldn't find one that talked about it. Did Divine Emblem do anything to improve pld hate issues? or anything to improve there play style in general?

I'm sure it helped but it wasn't that amazing. They should have made it a job trait and just let it boost all divine magic emnity rates.
 Ramuh.Thunderz
Offline
Server: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
user: Thunderz
Posts: 4118
By Ramuh.Thunderz 2010-10-13 21:39:56
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Titan.Darkwizardzin said:
Btw I looked on the forums but I couldn't find one that talked about it. Did Divine Emblem do anything to improve pld hate issues? or anything to improve there play style in general?

The recast is pretty bad
 Fenrir.Mtmoogle
Offline
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
user: Bogamoga
Posts: 1161
By Fenrir.Mtmoogle 2010-10-13 21:41:43
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Carbuncle.Sevourn said:
Diabolos.Piraal said:
I'm pretty sure most aegis pld have MDB sets, be pretty sad if they didn't, but I think it's fair to say that most DD jobs don't bother with one.
a relic isn't an automatic sign of a good player as bigpun so amply demonstrated
good or bad player.
an aegis pld probably have multiple MDB sets seeing how much was invested in the job. skill is irrelevent there
 Asura.Aust
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Aust101
Posts: 63
By Asura.Aust 2010-10-13 21:42:36
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Titan.Darkwizardzin said:
Btw I looked on the forums but I couldn't find one that talked about it. Did Divine Emblem do anything to improve pld hate issues? or anything to improve there play style in general?

Yes.
 Fenrir.Snick
Offline
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
user: Snick
Posts: 906
By Fenrir.Snick 2010-10-13 21:44:57
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Odin.Zicdeh said:
Maybe I'm just mired in the OP, but the thread is about PLD being useful, not being the best. If everyone were to just use "The best" job, FFXI would consist of BLU, RDM and BRD, and not a goddamn thing else.
I hope I'm being wooshed cause you forgot COR, DNC and MNK.

And get rid of BLU.
[+]
 Fenrir.Mtmoogle
Offline
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
user: Bogamoga
Posts: 1161
By Fenrir.Mtmoogle 2010-10-13 21:46:02
Link | Quote | Reply
 
dnc is the best in all situations!!!!!!!
 Carbuncle.Sevourn
Offline
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
user: Sevourn
Posts: 9481
By Carbuncle.Sevourn 2010-10-13 21:46:20
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Fenrir.Mtmoogle said:
Carbuncle.Sevourn said:
Diabolos.Piraal said:
I'm pretty sure most aegis pld have MDB sets, be pretty sad if they didn't, but I think it's fair to say that most DD jobs don't bother with one.
a relic isn't an automatic sign of a good player as bigpun so amply demonstrated
good or bad player.
an aegis pld probably have multiple MDB sets seeing how much was invested in the job. skill is irrelevent there


bg's gimpthread says otherwise

the skills you need to get a relic(intense patience/a lot of money for rmt/the patience and resources to fishbot on multiple characters/large scale manipulation of fellow players/a high craft and a lot of luck)

are an entirely different skillset than the ability to play the game well

sometimes they coincide and you get a good player with a relic

sometimes they do not and you get a gimpthread entry
[+]
 Bahamut.Dasva
Offline
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
user: dasva
Posts: 13835
By Bahamut.Dasva 2010-10-13 21:48:30
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Fenrir.Snick said:
Odin.Zicdeh said:
Maybe I'm just mired in the OP, but the thread is about PLD being useful, not being the best. If everyone were to just use "The best" job, FFXI would consist of BLU, RDM and BRD, and not a goddamn thing else.
I hope I'm being wooshed cause you forgot COR, DNC and MNK.

And get rid of BLU.
I hope I'm being whoosed here because you said get rid of blu
 Ramuh.Thunderz
Offline
Server: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
user: Thunderz
Posts: 4118
By Ramuh.Thunderz 2010-10-13 21:48:44
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Carbuncle.Sevourn said:
Fenrir.Mtmoogle said:
Carbuncle.Sevourn said:
Diabolos.Piraal said:
I'm pretty sure most aegis pld have MDB sets, be pretty sad if they didn't, but I think it's fair to say that most DD jobs don't bother with one.
a relic isn't an automatic sign of a good player as bigpun so amply demonstrated
good or bad player.
an aegis pld probably have multiple MDB sets seeing how much was invested in the job. skill is irrelevent there


bg's gimpthread says otherwise

the skills you need to get a relic(intense patience/a lot of money for rmt/the patience/resources to fishbot on multiple characters/large scale manipulation of fellow players)

are an entirely different skillset than the ability to play the game well

sometimes they coincide and you get a good player with a relic

sometimes they do not and you get a gimpthread entry


your new avy is throwing me soo off. I expect potato face and end up with dora the explorer o.o
[+]
 Fenrir.Snick
Offline
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
user: Snick
Posts: 906
By Fenrir.Snick 2010-10-13 21:51:46
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Bahamut.Dasva said:
Fenrir.Snick said:
Odin.Zicdeh said:
Maybe I'm just mired in the OP, but the thread is about PLD being useful, not being the best. If everyone were to just use "The best" job, FFXI would consist of BLU, RDM and BRD, and not a goddamn thing else.
I hope I'm being wooshed cause you forgot COR, DNC and MNK.

And get rid of BLU.
I hope I'm being whoosed here because you said get rid of blu
I really don't wanna go over this again. Basically anything BLU can do something can do better.

But again, Nightfyre in my LS, BLU all the time (pretty much). And just recruited another BLU ***.
 Ramuh.Thunderz
Offline
Server: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
user: Thunderz
Posts: 4118
By Ramuh.Thunderz 2010-10-13 21:52:40
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Fenrir.Snick said:
Bahamut.Dasva said:
Fenrir.Snick said:
Odin.Zicdeh said:
Maybe I'm just mired in the OP, but the thread is about PLD being useful, not being the best. If everyone were to just use "The best" job, FFXI would consist of BLU, RDM and BRD, and not a goddamn thing else.
I hope I'm being wooshed cause you forgot COR, DNC and MNK.

And get rid of BLU.
I hope I'm being whoosed here because you said get rid of blu
I really don't wanna go over this again. Basically anything BLU can do something can do better.

But again, Nightfyre in my LS, BLU all the time (pretty much). And just recruited another BLU ***.


Get rid of all that

SAM, RDM, BRD

zerg zerg zerg
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
Offline
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
user: Nightfyre
Posts: 11681
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-10-13 21:54:48
Link | Quote | Reply
 
You keep saying SAM but I know you mean MNK.
Diabolos.Piraal said:
I'm pretty sure most aegis pld have MDB sets, be pretty sad if they didn't, but I think it's fair to say that most DD jobs don't bother with one.
If they don't, they should.
First Page 2 3 ... 15 16 17 ... 24 25 26