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Will PLD be useful again at lvl 99?
 Bahamut.Aiyana
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 235
By Bahamut.Aiyana 2010-10-13 16:41:46
Fenrir.Snick said: Fenrir.Mtmoogle said: Pup isnt bad at all its just how many ppl are "good" pups and know what they are doing Even a well geared PUP will always be wasted potential over them focusing on gearing MNK or SAM or whatever.
Having said that I understand that a girl has to have her fun, so as such, if somebody was to have a well geared PUP I wouldn't turn them down cause they aren't the most efficient or I'd be kicking Captaincrunch from my shell til he has 85 Spharai.
lol... Also, PUP is freaking broken for some things. Mainly when treated as a pseudo-mage in a manaburn. Never seen one keep up in a melee setting.
Now I don't know pup mechanics, but that little bugger can dish out damage with very low enmity (Recall the puppet or whatever), similar to summoner DDs. Works nicely in a small handful of situations.
Though, pretty much anything a PUP could do in these.. examples, a SMN could do better.
Server: Bahamut
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By Bahamut.Raenryong 2010-10-13 16:47:57
BLM puppet can nuke while running!!
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Asura.Aust
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 63
By Asura.Aust 2010-10-13 16:52:41
Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Asura.Aust said: I see your point No, I don't think you do.
Quote: I'm just trying to play out the scenario where say a party of WHM/SCH, BRD/???, MNK/WAR, SAM/WAR, WAR/SAM, PLD/NIN, could take down an HNM, faster and smoother then say WHM/???, BRD/???, MNK/NIN, SAM/NIN, WAR/SAM(or NIN), Extra/DD. Unless you plan to put another support job there. Say a second BRD, COR or DNC or whatever you want. I see nothing wrong with either party tho in my opinion.
Your PLD setup will not take down any such NM faster and more smoothly, that's my point. Your DDs are going to cap hate and die because they lack sufficient means of damage mitigation, and there's not a thing your PLD can do about because once they cap hate, they're all tanking. At this point, they're doing less damage than everyone going DD/NIN and bouncing hate. If everyone's bouncing hate, what the *** is the point of bringing a PLD to begin with?
Perhaps I just haven't been lucky enough to play with people who build perfect 6hits, cap ACC, and play their jobs well enough. Understand that enmity decreases over time, not only does PLD have the ability to attack faster then most said jobs, they build tp just as fast as any DD, but they won't be losing as much hate through blink tanking IF one DD were to take a hit. Only person who I could see pulling hate and dying would be the MNK/WAR. Before update MNK was not as popular an powerful as others. (seems to me). I'll play, try the new NM's and probably post again another time if my opinion changes.
Also, PLD does have cure cheat, so if try hav close to cap, and lose hate, it's a matter of 2 seconds before they can pull it back.
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By Ifrit.Darkanaseur 2010-10-13 17:00:56
He's saying that all melee will eventually cap hate. Then it's down to whoever performed the most recent volatilve action will pull hate. But DDs do cap enmity a lot faster. Add in hate decay over time too, DDs will constantly be keeping theirs capped, while PLDs have to resort to cure cheats.
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Server: Fenrir
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-10-13 17:03:10
Quote: Perhaps I just haven't been lucky enough to play with people who build perfect 6hits, cap ACC, and play their jobs well enough. Who said anything about "perfect" 6-hits? Capping accuracy isn't hard, nor is dealing enough damage to maintain a positive VE generation rate.
Quote: Understand that enmity decreases over time VE does, but capping VE is trivial and you'll basically recap it every time a melee swing connects on any DD job. CE takes somewhat longer to cap and only decays via taking damage; also easy to recap once capped.
Quote: not only does PLD have the ability to attack faster then most said jobs, For less DPS
Quote: they build tp just as fast as any DD, False.
Quote: but they won't be losing as much hate through blink tanking IF one DD were to take a hit. Not to any degree that matters.
Quote: Only person who I could see pulling hate and dying would be the MNK/WAR. If the others aren't capping hate too, you have some really bad DDs.
Quote: Also, PLD does have cure cheat, so if try hav close to cap, and lose hate, it's a matter of 2 seconds before they can pull it back. See above.
Not trying to be rude, but you could really use a better grounding in enmity mechanics. I'd suggest starting here.
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Asura.Aust
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 63
By Asura.Aust 2010-10-13 17:03:48
Ifrit.Darkanaseur said: I dunno about the shells you were in, but Third Eye has always worked as well for tanking HNM as Utsusemi does.
Back to the OP, I think a PLD/SAM sounds like a ton of fun with -PDT%, third eye, and the ability to either solo light, or hit x2 atonments sounds like fun.
Bahamut.Aiyana
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 235
By Bahamut.Aiyana 2010-10-13 17:05:23
Asura.Aust said: Ifrit.Darkanaseur said: I dunno about the shells you were in, but Third Eye has always worked as well for tanking HNM as Utsusemi does.
Back to the OP, I think a PLD/SAM sounds like a ton of fun with -PDT%, third eye, and the ability to either solo light, or hit x2 atonments sounds like fun.
Fun perhaps, but by no means effective. Remember that /sam does not function properly (You can't Seigan) if you aren't using a 2-handed weapon. Removing a shield from a PLD makes it a half-assed DRK at best.
Fun is for Campaign.
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Phoenix.Excelior
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2093
By Phoenix.Excelior 2010-10-13 17:05:41
Ok lets just answer the question to this thread.
PLD is ***at 85.
The only way to make pld more useful is to one of the following:
Increase PLDs damage to be more on par with traditional DDs.
(Hay guys I can tank, heal, and out DD every other job) Obviously this isn't very likely.
Decrease the tanking abilitys of all other jobs.
(This requires them to basically nerf /nin and shadows) I think that's also very unlikely at this point in the game.
So to answer the OP and the intended purpose of this thread:
No, there is no rational basis to believe that PLD will become more useful at 99.
/thread
Fenrir.Yinsha
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 263
By Fenrir.Yinsha 2010-10-13 17:07:16
Why is SMN better than PUP exactly? I don't even.
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Bahamut.Aiyana
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 235
By Bahamut.Aiyana 2010-10-13 17:09:11
Fenrir.Yinsha said: Why is SMN better than PUP exactly? I don't even.
Low-enmity damage that works well with mage tanks (Since RDM isn't exactly amazing at holding hate anymore.)
PUP and SMN can both do this, but SMN doesn't feed TP iirc. Which is why SMN is superior for these situations.
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 Fenrir.Snick
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 906
By Fenrir.Snick 2010-10-13 17:16:14
SMN is definitely better for the 2 fights you'd use pet burns for.
Having said that, pet burns are unnecessary.
Fenrir.Snick
Server: Fenrir
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By Fenrir.Snick 2010-10-13 17:20:25
And when I talk about taking a well geared PUP, it wouldn't be for the pseudo-situations that having an automaton might be good. It'd be as a ghetto DD, nothing else~
Fenrir.Yinsha
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By Fenrir.Yinsha 2010-10-13 17:20:48
I'm not even going to bother with this.
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 Ramuh.Vinvv
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By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-10-13 17:21:14
Fenrir.Yinsha said: I'm not even going to bother with this. that's a good idea.
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Fenrir.Snick
Server: Fenrir
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By Fenrir.Snick 2010-10-13 17:21:59
Fenrir.Yinsha said: I'm not even going to bother with this. Good.
Asura.Aust
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 63
By Asura.Aust 2010-10-13 17:22:30
Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Quote: Perhaps I just haven't been lucky enough to play with people who build perfect 6hits, cap ACC, and play their jobs well enough. Who said anything about "perfect" 6-hits? Capping accuracy isn't hard, nor is dealing enough damage to maintain a positive VE generation rate.
Quote: Understand that enmity decreases over time VE does, but capping VE is trivial and you'll basically recap it every time a melee swing connects on any DD job. CE takes somewhat longer to cap and only decays via taking damage; also easy to recap once capped.
Quote: not only does PLD have the ability to attack faster then most said jobs, For less DPS
Quote: they build tp just as fast as any DD, False.
Quote: but they won't be losing as much hate through blink tanking IF one DD were to take a hit. Not to any degree that matters.
Quote: Only person who I could see pulling hate and dying would be the MNK/WAR. If the others aren't capping hate too, you have some really bad DDs.
Quote: Also, PLD does have cure cheat, so if try hav close to cap, and lose hate, it's a matter of 2 seconds before they can pull it back. See above.
Not trying to be rude, but you could really use a better grounding in enmity mechanics. I'd suggest starting here.
You're not rude at all. You discus valid views on how you see the game played out. I DD infact study kanican's journal long before I started PLD. I have not read sense he quit.
I would like to debate with you on this topic more when I have access to a computer if that's alright with you. It's just too difficult to type with a phone.
 Phoenix.Fredjan
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2326
By Phoenix.Fredjan 2010-10-13 18:28:18
Phoenix.Excelior said: Ok lets just answer the question to this thread.
PLD is ***at 85.
The only way to make pld more useful is to one of the following:
Fast Cast, GOOD enmity-generation spells (Fantod and the plethora of spells BLU has sh*t on everything PLD has) ftfy
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 Bismarck.Strange
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 606
By Bismarck.Strange 2010-10-13 18:34:03
the only usless pld are the ones who cant gear it for what they are gonna tank. no job in ffxi is useless just the sucky ppl who play those jobs and never learn how to gear/play the job, or burned the job and think they can use it w/o skilling up or even know the jobs basic mechanics.
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Fenrir.Snick
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 906
By Fenrir.Snick 2010-10-13 18:35:40
Bismarck.Strange said: the only usless pld are the ones who cant gear it for what they are gonna tank. no job in ffxi is useless just the sucky ppl who play those jobs and never learn how to gear/play the job, or burned the job and think they can use it w/o skilling up or even know the jobs basic mechanics. I agree. Astral Flow burning killed my father and raped my mother.
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Bismarck.Strange
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By Bismarck.Strange 2010-10-13 18:37:10
Fenrir.Snick said: Bismarck.Strange said: the only usless pld are the ones who cant gear it for what they are gonna tank. no job in ffxi is useless just the sucky ppl who play those jobs and never learn how to gear/play the job, or burned the job and think they can use it w/o skilling up or even know the jobs basic mechanics. I agree. Astral Flow burning killed my father and raped my mother.
wasnt only referring to AF burns
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Fenrir.Snick
Server: Fenrir
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Posts: 906
By Fenrir.Snick 2010-10-13 18:41:12
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Bismarck.Strange
Server: Bismarck
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Posts: 606
By Bismarck.Strange 2010-10-13 18:41:59
Fenrir.Snick said: And I was mocking you. i know you were being a dumbass. dumbass.
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Fenrir.Snick
Server: Fenrir
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Posts: 906
By Fenrir.Snick 2010-10-13 18:50:06
Bismarck.Strange said: the only usless pld are the ones who cant gear it for what they are gonna tank. no job in ffxi is useless just the sucky ppl who play those jobs and never learn how to gear/play the job, or burned the job and think they can use it w/o skilling up or even know the jobs basic mechanics. I'll remind you, you're the one who wrote this idiotic statement.
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Bismarck.Strange
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 606
By Bismarck.Strange 2010-10-13 18:51:07
Fenrir.Snick said: Bismarck.Strange said: the only usless pld are the ones who cant gear it for what they are gonna tank. no job in ffxi is useless just the sucky ppl who play those jobs and never learn how to gear/play the job, or burned the job and think they can use it w/o skilling up or even know the jobs basic mechanics. I'll remind you, you're the one who wrote this idiotic statement. nothing idiotic about it just your dumb response just like most of your post dumb and unintelligent responses
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Fenrir.Snick
Server: Fenrir
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Posts: 906
By Fenrir.Snick 2010-10-13 18:53:46
You failed to explain in an intelligent manner why PLD is even worth while simply saying "lol sucky ppl" and trying to take a shot at people who "burned" their jobs like exp parties matter at all.
It's been explained many times in this topic why PLD is a weak job, maybe try looking at one of Nightfyre or Excelior's posts and try to argue some of their thought out points if you want to be taken seriously at all.
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Diabolos.Piraal
Server: Diabolos
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Posts: 55
By Diabolos.Piraal 2010-10-13 18:54:48
Bismarck.Strange said: nothing idiotic about it just your dumb response just like most of your post dumb and unintelligent responses
he's just trolling, he's been camping the topic for the last two days.
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Bismarck.Strange
Server: Bismarck
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By Bismarck.Strange 2010-10-13 18:56:14
Bismarck.Strange said: knowing the jobs basic mechanics. and stop coattailing others
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Fenrir.Snick
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 906
By Fenrir.Snick 2010-10-13 18:59:11
It doesn't take doing exp parties to learn how to play a job. Dynamics change when you go from fighting pink birds to doing real content.
The simplest example of this would be PLD(Gasp) in most lowbie exp parties they would likely sub WAR, while in any endgame situation they would sub NIN. See what I mean?
You can call it coat tailing but I don't see a reason to re-post what's been said when you still haven't actually argued any of their points.
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Bismarck.Strange
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By Bismarck.Strange 2010-10-13 19:11:06
Diabolos.Piraal said: Bismarck.Strange said: nothing idiotic about it just your dumb response just like most of your post dumb and unintelligent responses he's just trolling, he's been camping the topic for the last two days. oh ok so snick is a troll nvm then no need to post a response to his nonsense
Fenrir.Snick
Server: Fenrir
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Posts: 906
By Fenrir.Snick 2010-10-13 19:12:16
Diabolos.Piraal said: Bismarck.Strange said: nothing idiotic about it just your dumb response just like most of your post dumb and unintelligent responses
he's just trolling, he's been camping the topic for the last two days. My first post in this topic was today. Try harder.
It was also made yesterday. I guess FFXIAH doesn't need logic though.
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It seems to me that PLD is not what it once was as a "tank". With the amount of HP, and buffs other jobs can now get, along side the DMG most DD's put out, make it almost useless to use PLD's like they once were.
I think at 99 there are some exciting possibilitys for the job including haste, and other abilitys.
Any ideas how the job may change?
In 2004 it was pretty popular to stack VIT and DEF, 2010, haste ad ACC, it looks like SE is pushing for more -PDT% but who knows. :D
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