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 Caitsith.Mahayaya
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By Caitsith.Mahayaya 2010-10-11 14:59:19
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Lakshmi.Jaerik said:
Caitsith.Mahayaya said:
I was kind of hoping that some SE official would contact Scragg/Jaerik and ask for some help on developing some type of marketting system for them for FFXIV. I think it's stupid that they ignored this resource used by so many players of FFXI. Hell, I can't even think of a player who hasn't at least looked up items using this website. Sure, it's a website and not a UI-Game Client, but they could at least take some tips on design of that.
I can't really fathom a highly-paid design team, tasked with developing new and interesting systems, going to some 3rd party yahoo site for ideas. They would have to actually put us on the payroll or risk legal problems re: work product or unsolicited ideas. We'd be happy to advise from a volunteer role. Hell, we've been open to a closer relationship with SE for years. We'd even be open to changing our ad model if they needed it. Trouble is, I like to think we're ruthlessly fair: I praise SE when warranted but also don't hold back punches when they screw up. That's not a good thing for an "officially" connected site, which are usually expected to always spin things in SE's favor as though they were under the same PR umbrella. It wouldn't be fair to our users for us to suddenly switch gears like that, and I doubt SE wants to touch us with a 10' pole unless we do. Oh well, our door is always open nonetheless. jaerik@ffxiah.com =p

haha, nice to hear you talk so humbly about yourself, but you'd be surprised. Blizzard has been known to hire on some freelance StarCraft map designers onto their staff. I don't think it's that much of a step for any other company to notice some talent in a particular field and offer a paying position to help improve their system. It may come down to a pride of wanting to do it themselves though, especially considering they're Japanese and the only good reason they see to hire an American would be for localization issues.. :/
 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2010-10-11 15:06:51
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Caitsith.Mahayaya said:
Lakshmi.Jaerik said:
Caitsith.Mahayaya said:
I was kind of hoping that some SE official would contact Scragg/Jaerik and ask for some help on developing some type of marketting system for them for FFXIV. I think it's stupid that they ignored this resource used by so many players of FFXI. Hell, I can't even think of a player who hasn't at least looked up items using this website. Sure, it's a website and not a UI-Game Client, but they could at least take some tips on design of that.
I can't really fathom a highly-paid design team, tasked with developing new and interesting systems, going to some 3rd party yahoo site for ideas. They would have to actually put us on the payroll or risk legal problems re: work product or unsolicited ideas. We'd be happy to advise from a volunteer role. Hell, we've been open to a closer relationship with SE for years. We'd even be open to changing our ad model if they needed it. Trouble is, I like to think we're ruthlessly fair: I praise SE when warranted but also don't hold back punches when they screw up. That's not a good thing for an "officially" connected site, which are usually expected to always spin things in SE's favor as though they were under the same PR umbrella. It wouldn't be fair to our users for us to suddenly switch gears like that, and I doubt SE wants to touch us with a 10' pole unless we do. Oh well, our door is always open nonetheless. jaerik@ffxiah.com =p

haha, nice to hear you talk so humbly about yourself, but you'd be surprised. Blizzard has been known to hire on some freelance StarCraft map designers onto their staff. I don't think it's that much of a step for any other company to notice some talent in a particular field and offer a paying position to help improve their system. It may come down to a pride of wanting to do it themselves though, especially considering they're Japanese and the only good reason they see to hire an American would be for localization issues.. :/
I maybe going out on a limb here and giving SE too much credit in this regards, but it's like they know people are going to create websites regardless of what they provide.

So why should they hire a 3rd party, where instead they just leave it up to the community to setup whatever they want. That way not only do they not have to pay them, but they do all the work as well.
 Caitsith.Mahayaya
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By Caitsith.Mahayaya 2010-10-11 15:13:44
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Leviathan.Chaosx said:
I maybe going out on a limb here and giving SE too much credit in this regards, but it's like they know people are going to create websites regardless of what they provide. So why should they hire a 3rd party, where instead they just leave it up to the community to setup whatever they want. That way not only do they not have to pay them, but they do all the work as well.

I dunno, if I was making a game, I'd want my game to provide everything that a player needs within reason. I don't mean modding, of course, but using FFXI's Community Linkshell site as an example... that place is horrible. But I think it's a step in the opposite direction to not even have a community website, when they could have just put more effort into making a good one.

I guess I'm just overlooking their budget. I'd rather see a bunch of money spent on a game to be released at the right time and be a smash hit with all the bells and whistles, than a low-budget flop that just turns out as a money sink because nobody wants to play it.
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 Ramuh.Urial
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By Ramuh.Urial 2010-10-11 15:20:24
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Caitsith.Mahayaya said:
Leviathan.Chaosx said:
I maybe going out on a limb here and giving SE too much credit in this regards, but it's like they know people are going to create websites regardless of what they provide. So why should they hire a 3rd party, where instead they just leave it up to the community to setup whatever they want. That way not only do they not have to pay them, but they do all the work as well.

I dunno, if I was making a game, I'd want my game to provide everything that a player needs within reason. I don't mean modding, of course, but using FFXI's Community Linkshell site as an example... that place is horrible. But I think it's a step in the opposite direction to not even have a community website, when they could have just put more effort into making a good one.

I guess I'm just overlooking their budget. I'd rather see a bunch of money spent on a game to be released at the right time and be a smash hit with all the bells and whistles, than a low-budget flop that just turns out as a money sink because nobody wants to play it.
Loadstone is atleast semi decent
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 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2010-10-11 15:59:37
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Asura.Catastrophe said:
Leviathan.Chaosx said:
Lakshmi.Jaerik said:
I think separating the wards by type and implementing a search mechanic is a fantastic idea. I'm absolutely baffled why, if it's only a couple weeks of work like they're implying, we didn't have it at launch. But beyond a certain point, if your wards are categorized, searchable, etc anyway... isn't it basically an AH system anyway? Just with a cludgier interface?
They're relying on you guys, for now, it seems. Considering that if you're playing on PC you definitely have access to web sites.

I'm curious if this is the case.

SE does know about our "mechanics" regarding their games. I say 'our' as in a community.

Either way, it seems legit that PC players would be able to access sites, and PS3 players won't... provides them some amount of time.
That why I say for now.
Once the PS3 version is released, then we will know for sure. If they come out with some major change to what they have now, right before the PS3 release, depending on what exactly that change is, I think we would then be able to tell.
 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2010-10-11 16:04:01
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Caitsith.Mahayaya said:
Leviathan.Chaosx said:
I maybe going out on a limb here and giving SE too much credit in this regards, but it's like they know people are going to create websites regardless of what they provide. So why should they hire a 3rd party, where instead they just leave it up to the community to setup whatever they want. That way not only do they not have to pay them, but they do all the work as well.

I dunno, if I was making a game, I'd want my game to provide everything that a player needs within reason. I don't mean modding, of course, but using FFXI's Community Linkshell site as an example... that place is horrible. But I think it's a step in the opposite direction to not even have a community website, when they could have just put more effort into making a good one.

I guess I'm just overlooking their budget. I'd rather see a bunch of money spent on a game to be released at the right time and be a smash hit with all the bells and whistles, than a low-budget flop that just turns out as a money sink because nobody wants to play it.
I think that's what most of us were expecting.

What's funny is that their linkshell site has been in beta forever. Definitely one thing that's been sitting on the back burner.
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 Fenrir.Maiev
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By Fenrir.Maiev 2010-10-11 16:06:09
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Lakshmi.Jaerik said:
Ramuh.Urial said:
I've heard great things about EVE online just never got around to trying it :/
It's incredibly complicated. It's basically MMO-via-spreadsheet. The below graphic is a good approximation.

But its economy is so incredible that it's spawned a number of PhD studies and books on design. Their presentations are often standing-room-only at conventions like GDC.


Where would FFXIV fit in... not exactly eve online... maybe a line inbetween everything.

Though I had to say that picture made my day lol
 Lakshmi.Jaerik
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By Lakshmi.Jaerik 2010-10-11 16:14:42
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Sup Maiev!

Dunno about XIV yet. I'd say XI is probably somewhere between EVE and the rest though.
 Bismarck.Rellz
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By Bismarck.Rellz 2010-10-11 16:36:23
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Ramuh.Urial said:
Bismarck.Rellz said:
Enternius said:
Ramuh.Urial said:
Lakshmi.Jaerik said:
Not that it matters, except to keep an eye on the competition, as it were. But WoW announced a few days ago that they have snapped up another 3M players and recovered those they lost during the disagreement with China. They are now at 12 million active users.
Having played WoW it baffles me that so many people play that game.
It's for a different kind of person. Just like Team Fortress 2. If you enjoy noob tubing and camping in corners and rocket launchers in MW2, you would like TF2. Same for WoW. If you like doing nothing for undeserved, overpowered rewards, you'd like WoW.
what annoys me is most people who noob tube and camp in corners with rocket launchers think there good...
gotta play them online games that require a bit more skill i like a challenge. too easy = (No thanks)
What about people who use teh at-4 and noob tube to on the run to take out enemies from large distances? I play with them for lulz because i honestly dont care to try in mw2 anymore. But I in no way sit in corners and wait for with them. I typically use the explosive class as counter camping. Also ent i find tf2 bleh same with halo. Unrealistic shooters aren't fun to me. btw look into MoH played the beta it's beast.
bit late to reply but i went on MW2 to try out the game again other day and there was literally 3 ppl in a building with danger close 1 man army noob tubing... i was like really? and turned off game
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By Bismarck.Rellz 2010-10-11 16:41:29
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i like what they did with bad company 2 when it comes to multiplayer. the guns are a little underpowered yes but that also makes it harder to camp. its still quite easy to kill people though just cant kill in 3 bullets you need to like hit someone directly with a rocket to kill um in 1 shot. underpowered yes but makes the game much more fun for me since im not one to camp much
 Fenrir.Maiev
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By Fenrir.Maiev 2010-10-11 16:44:45
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I'd have to doodle that graph and put xi somewhere.

Scragg been telling me about ur post, and you made a lot of valid points. One thing for sure is we all want this game to suceed, especially how we are even trying to create websites/fansites to enrich the fan experience yet SE drop the balls on this one.

Really wonder what happen to the last 4 years. Also wonder why there isn't somewhat a "B" team or a "B" plan if A doesn't work.

I've went to wow and came back because...I enjoy the sense of accomplishment in XI, grinding my parrying to the "blue text" (well, before they raise the cap) over handing over epic weapons like candies and gets replaced on next patch/release of the newer dungeon. However, now looking back... Blizzard made a lot of correct game design choices. It's now that I really appreciate the tiny little details Blizzard put into their games.

I'm mad and disappointed. SE gave us too much hope and promises only to find out there's literally nothing inside those wet cardboard boxes and now falls flat on them.

The only correct decision I think they made was PS3 launch was next year as well as they made a lot of people to reactivate FFXI in order to get their pair of shoes. Well... since XIV have the 36hr leve cooldown, might as well play XI (which most people already paid for and got at least 2 weeks left).

The Oct 8 "patch" fix nothing. I still get chat focus error. I start out my Lv1 Archer, took guardian aspect and didn't get any rank up from killing 6 mobs for my levequest. I was still rank 1.0 after the quest (lol) for archer.

I'm not sure if those "fixes" will ever come. Last 2 weeks been nothing but a broken tiny patch.

---

I also can't agree more to what you posted here about its not the dev's choice to release it. Over Beta when we get all those C&D letters, I was already getting a bad impression of what might happen, holding the press back in reporting Beta. It's fair I mean... they don't want people to view the incomplete game. But I was really crossing my finger, that we are playing a "specicfic build" from B team, and there is an A team with the magic patch in hand. Unfortunately, that never happened. All we saw was upper management ate Ramen on twitter.
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 Kujata.Erim
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By Kujata.Erim 2010-10-11 16:51:20
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Lakshmi.Jaerik said:


I'd draw FFXI's line beneath Eve forming the shape of mouths waiting to eat the falling corpses and fighting each other for them.

In reality I think FFXI has the roughest start of any MMO and would start well above the others and then remain relatively flat.

 Caitsith.Mahayaya
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By Caitsith.Mahayaya 2010-10-11 16:58:44
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I think it'd be great to hear SE come out and say: "We sent 10,000 dollars developing FFXIV in China as a ploy to get quick cash from those retail sales and to get people to return to their subscriptions of FFXI."
 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2010-10-11 17:03:10
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Fenrir.Maiev said:
I'd have to doodle that graph and put xi somewhere.

Scragg been telling me about ur post, and you made a lot of valid points. One thing for sure is we all want this game to suceed, especially how we are even trying to create websites/fansites to enrich the fan experience yet SE drop the balls on this one.

Really wonder what happen to the last 4 years. Also wonder why there isn't somewhat a "B" team or a "B" plan if A doesn't work.

I've went to wow and came back because...I enjoy the sense of accomplishment in XI, grinding my parrying to the "blue text" (well, before they raise the cap) over handing over epic weapons like candies and gets replaced on next patch/release of the newer dungeon. However, now looking back... Blizzard made a lot of correct game design choices. It's now that I really appreciate the tiny little details Blizzard put into their games.

I'm mad and disappointed. SE gave us too much hope and promises only to find out there's literally nothing inside those wet cardboard boxes and now falls flat on them.

The only correct decision I think they made was PS3 launch was next year as well as they made a lot of people to reactivate FFXI in order to get their pair of shoes. Well... since XIV have the 36hr leve cooldown, might as well play XI (which most people already paid for and got at least 2 weeks left).

The Oct 8 "patch" fix nothing. I still get chat focus error. I start out my Lv1 Archer, took guardian aspect and didn't get any rank up from killing 6 mobs for my levequest. I was still rank 1.0 after the quest (lol) for archer.

I'm not sure if those "fixes" will ever come. Last 2 weeks been nothing but a broken tiny patch.

---

I also can't agree more to what you posted here about its not the dev's choice to release it. Over Beta when we get all those C&D letters, I was already getting a bad impression of what might happen, holding the press back in reporting Beta. It's fair I mean... they don't want people to view the incomplete game. But I was really crossing my finger, that we are playing a "specicfic build" from B team, and there is an A team with the magic patch in hand. Unfortunately, that never happened. All we saw was upper management ate Ramen on twitter.
I lol'd harder at that then I should have.
 Caitsith.Mahayaya
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By Caitsith.Mahayaya 2010-10-11 17:19:22
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Kujata.Erim said:
Lakshmi.Jaerik said:


I'd draw FFXI's line beneath Eve forming the shape of mouths waiting to eat the falling corpses and fighting each other for them.

In reality I think FFXI has the roughest start of any MMO and would start well above the others and then remain relatively flat.


I dunno, the fact that you're just dropped in the middle of space on Eve is a little different than being put in the middle of a town being told to go trade a coupon to an NPC. As much as I'd like to be elitist about FFXI, I think Eve takes the cake.
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By Caitsith.Omicronceti 2010-10-11 21:51:15
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http://pc.ign.com/articles/112/1123824p1.html

Shocker. I remember reading somewhere on the site where people were attacking reviewers for giving the game low scores because they were wow ***. It's funny, cause in the case of the gamespot review where I know the reviewer doesn't even play WoW(he's a Guild Wars and Aeon player), even if these reviewers were "wow ***" I don't see how that dilutes or takes away from the games existing problems.

Standards in the MMO market are standards for a reason and I think it's hilarious how so many Final Fantasy players lash out at WoW. Regardless of whether you like the game or not it has done a lot that players like, and if a new game to the genre chooses to ignore those chances are it will fail.
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 Phoenix.Destrac
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By Phoenix.Destrac 2010-10-11 22:19:14
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>>Omicronceti

Your avatar is *** up and pisses me off.
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 Caitsith.Omicronceti
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By Caitsith.Omicronceti 2010-10-11 23:19:31
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You're lack of a sense of humor offends me.
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By Kurokikaze01 2010-10-11 23:30:07
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http://www.massively.com/2010/10/11/nycc-2010-our-interview-with-ffxivs-sage-sundi-and-yasu-kurosa/

Looks like they hear the cries of many... Question is will they do anything and if they do how soon will it happen? :/
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By salvadore 2010-10-11 23:56:30
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Phoenix.Destrac said:
>>Omicronceti Your avatar is *** up and pisses me off.
Your whining is *** up and pisses me off.
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 Phoenix.Destrac
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By Phoenix.Destrac 2010-10-12 00:22:14
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salvadore said:
Your whining is *** up and pisses me off.
Not talking to you, oxymoron.

Caitsith.Omicronceti said:
You're lack of a sense of humor offends me.

I don't care if you find it funny or not, but you know what does that convey when you display it publicly to others? "I want to look cool and badass but I'm really just an ***." Done wasting time with you. Back to topic.

Asura.Catastrophe said:
Kurokikaze01 said:
Interview with Sage Sundi and Yasu Kurosa

Looks like they hear the cries of many... Question is will they do anything and if they do how soon will it happen? :/

Really though, them just saying something makes me feel a little better.

Very true, hopefully they'll keep communicating with the players and addressing the issues. I'm glad they did this interview.
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By salvadore 2010-10-12 00:31:55
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It was meant to be. Cookie?
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 Leviathan.Pimpchan
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By Leviathan.Pimpchan 2010-10-12 03:03:13
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Caitsith.Omicronceti said:
http://pc.ign.com/articles/112/1123824p1.html

Shocker. I remember reading somewhere on the site where people were attacking reviewers for giving the game low scores because they were wow ***. It's funny, cause in the case of the gamespot review where I know the reviewer doesn't even play WoW(he's a Guild Wars and Aeon player), even if these reviewers were "wow ***" I don't see how that dilutes or takes away from the games existing problems.

Standards in the MMO market are standards for a reason and I think it's hilarious how so many Final Fantasy players lash out at WoW. Regardless of whether you like the game or not it has done a lot that players like, and if a new game to the genre chooses to ignore those chances are it will fail.

FFXI succeeded so you are wrong. FFXI doesn't have 12M subscriber so what ? Last I checked wow has much more players but they don't get more extension than FFXI either, so from the player point of view there is no difference. I know almost nothing about wow since I only player 20 hours and got bored of the grind (why grind something else when I already grinded stuff in ff11) but they only had 3 extensions (burning, wrath, and ctaclysm only now ), so explain us how 12M subscriber is giving more content (=better content). wow = 3 extensions, FFXI has 4 already (not mentionning the abyssea fail-ga), 1 every 2 years.


 Caitsith.Omicronceti
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By Caitsith.Omicronceti 2010-10-12 03:49:09
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Leviathan.Pimpchan said:
Caitsith.Omicronceti said:
http://pc.ign.com/articles/112/1123824p1.html

Shocker. I remember reading somewhere on the site where people were attacking reviewers for giving the game low scores because they were wow ***. It's funny, cause in the case of the gamespot review where I know the reviewer doesn't even play WoW(he's a Guild Wars and Aeon player), even if these reviewers were "wow ***" I don't see how that dilutes or takes away from the games existing problems.

Standards in the MMO market are standards for a reason and I think it's hilarious how so many Final Fantasy players lash out at WoW. Regardless of whether you like the game or not it has done a lot that players like, and if a new game to the genre chooses to ignore those chances are it will fail.

FFXI succeeded so you are wrong. FFXI doesn't have 12M subscriber so what ? Last I checked wow has much more players but they don't get more extension than FFXI either, so from the player point of view there is no difference. I know almost nothing about wow since I only player 20 hours and got bored of the grind (why grind something else when I already grinded stuff in ff11) but they only had 3 extensions (burning, wrath, and ctaclysm only now ), so explain us how 12M subscriber is giving more content (=better content). wow = 3 extensions, FFXI has 4 already (not mentionning the abyssea fail-ga), 1 every 2 years.


What is this I don't even
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 Phoenix.Katori
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By Phoenix.Katori 2010-10-12 07:19:10
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in wow everyone has like 5 characters they just add up everyone
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By Fenrir.Rinnsi 2010-10-12 07:29:55
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wow has 12 million subscribers? it's total BS, sure alot of people play, but 4million of those are gold sellers, and people have multiple accounts. i love when people bring up "it's popular, must be good!" sure, you know what else is popular? Twilight. Justin Bieber.
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By Phoenix.Katori 2010-10-12 07:31:13
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Fenrir.Rinnsi said:
wow has 12 million subscribers? it's total BS, sure alot of people play, but 4million of those are gold sellers, and people have multiple accounts. i love when people bring up "it's popular, must be good!" sure, you know what else is popular? Twilight. Justin Bieber.


lmao love the ending
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By Leviathan.Anbu 2010-10-12 08:18:18
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Would be nice if they added Blu and SMN...i seen picts of SMN in 14 already but i guess its not playable.
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