Shadow Tanking?

At level 90 I know i'll have fun soloing as PLD/WAR, cause i'll get Fencer =P (Something PLD should have have naturally).

But currently, If you are on PLD, and it ever came that blood-tanking was an option, PLD/BLU or PLD/RDM only, Same bonuses (Aside from provoke?) and then some. Stoneskin, Blink from RDM, Refresh from RDM (more useful solo than party as in party you'll likely get refresh).

BLU offers multiple boosts to hp/mp/stats from spells, Cocoon too. FYI Cocoon is same Defense bonus as Defender without nerfing your attack.

Either way, Blood Tanking has been considered, tested, and rejected as less effective. Maybe in the future it can regain power, with Phalanx's maximum being upped a good amount with the cap increases, same with stoneskin, but those things will also just made shadow tanking all that much stronger.

Its possible, though i can't currently fathom how, Blood tanking might become effective again, but at the current its just not working.

didn't Atonement get gimped? that would kinda kill a pld's hate generation a lot.. Though I'm not sure exactly how much enmity Sanguine generates.. I spam it on blu to keep myself at full hp and it does nice dmg hehe

it still does 750 unimpeded, however a lot of Abyssea mobs resist it now. I guess SE Decided that PLD was just too darn broken being able to do mediocre amounts of damage.

SE Giveth, SE Taketh away.

However, Sanguine Blade, even on my PLD can do an average ~440 without any help from Atma/Cruor/armor/etc.

So with the proper Atma, Buffs, and armor it could be a decent new hate tool, but I'm sure mobs will resist that too :|

Either way, i know PLD as a tank has died in most end game events, i'm just saying if you bring one /NIN will likely be your saving grace

actually my sanguines on blu, without much of anything as far as a set goes, do 500+ and heal for 350 or so.. the dmg/heal rate per TP is unreal.. its like 75% of dmg dealt to drain hp @100 tp...I dont see mobs resisting it much if at all

Cocoon is +50% Defense, Defender is +25%.

So its BETTER?

I'll be damned.

Kinda helps my argument a bit more too.

I like /BLU, but only really for things that you -pdt set for, like lowman prudence (4-man easily), despite the calculations for def and vit being borked on high level mobs, you can manage some pretty sweet results if you stack enough.

Aye, Mentioned it was only useful for situations where /WAR would be viable (I know its limited)

I used to use it while i was solo/Duoing ODS, but now i use /RDM for self-refresh.

VIT broked? As in good? Wut?

I could rock 5/5 Koenig and get one shotted by a higher level mob like its cool. VIT is the most USELESS stat in the game, god seriously where are you guys coming from? How long have you been playing this game? Because your obviously not doing any research on what works and doesnt work.

Well you know what I lied, Chakra and Slight increase to healing magic... but no way in hell is it going to save you or negate any real ammount of damage. PDT is the only way you are going to reduce damage on any mob that matters.

Edit

Maybe I misunderstood what you said, and if so I apologize but yea VIT is worthless.

It's not as worthless as STR or DEX in a PDT set, which is what you're fulltiming if you aren't /NIN.

He means despite vit and def being bad at higher levels you can still get good results by stacking vit/def AND PDT gear for certain things.

Nope, just a SAM/NIN with a 3 hit Zanshin build to keep hate. Get with it.

He definitely meant "VIT/DEF on higher mobs sucks ***," but you can still get it down to some good numbers due to our higher level.

I think.

Yeah, I meant that its broken in that we typically dont see a difference in damage taken with a gain in defense (unless it's huge, and even then not a great deal of the time).

However, with the higher level cap, subbing things other than NIN is more viable on a fair portion of the 75 content, I assume it's due to level correction or something(I don't know jack about that part of damage calculations).

Bleh in situations where its viable for PLD to use a different sub your better off not bringing a PLD at all.

Eh, some shells like a safety net though, no matter how insignificant :|

I know i enjoy going to things as PLD, i enjoy the job, But its painfully obvious that eventually people reach Enmity cap in long fights and that a tank becomes rather obsolete as the slightest action will have the mob turning for a new target.

Its a shame :|, They should give PLD a job trait that raises their Enmity cap, that way they will always be able (with proper use) to keep their Enmity higher than the rest of the party, making a tank actually useful again outside of the first ~10 minutes of a fight.

Who knows :\ that + better DD capabilities and not nerfing Atonement on every new mob would be just peachy.

They could also fix the def/vit thing for Paladin onry, making them take less damage from normal hits and be more useful than before. Since they want PLD to be the main tank in the game, why have them take as much damage from normal hits as other jobs? Doesn't make much sense to me really.

Maybe it'll come, i used to think SE was too afraid they would "break" pld, but with all the recent updates it seems possible.

It wouldn't take much, a Job trait that increases PLD's enmity cap by about ~10/20%, and a job trait that increases their natural resistance (maybe -10~20% PDT/MDT, seperate of gear cap)

It won't fix that they're basically useless in the DD department because their 1 good DD WS is nerfed on most NMs in Abyssea, but at the very least it would make them a bit more appealing depending on the mob.

Enlight Increases Accuracy by a good amount, i consider that a nice addition to PLD (bar-DNCs in party, and maybe even with them depending on your accuracy...), So that was a step in the right direction.

It would make it easier for not-that-good Paladins and everyone in general to tank stuff, since they'd need a bit less support if they don't take as much damage. Would also make it safer in case people die if the Paladin can hold the mob for a while with minimal support. They may be fairly useless in the DD department but if they increase the enmity cap then you can have DDs go more wild and not have to worry as much.

Sure, DDs should have PDT and MDT sets but we all know most don't. I don't have one atm since I'm broke as hell (should get one <_<) and it would help if the Paladin could actually hold hate for once.

The way to fix PLD is to reduce the recasts on all their JAs by at least half. Seigan/Third Eye is thirty seconds (and while it's up you take no damage, unlike Sentinel), Counterstance is 5 minutes/five minutes and also completely negates damage, and Perfect Counter is a minute recast. Other jobs have JAs on shorter recasts that mitigate damage significantly better than PLD's do. They also all need to generate more enmity.

Also, stop giving Atonement the Soul Eater treatment. It's not even in the same league.

Aye, a simple 10% increase in PLDs enmity cap would be so long as the PLD keeps it above that line they can keep hate indefinitely, or at the very least reclaim hate from a DD who has hit cap.

It would prove very valuable in some situations, being able to have your DD and BLMs nuke without fear of being owned (unless PLD takes a jump in damage) would be nice.

then again have to factor in VE, not just CE, So it'd be tricky to keep up but if done right...

Just hope SE Realizes the flaws with PLD and work to fix them. The low damage output, Enmity cap will eventually be reached by all participants in longer fights, etc, making a tank useless after a certain point in the fight


I agree with your point in shortening recast timers, but Counterstance is far from completely mitigating, it puts your DEF in double digits, and only increases Counter to about ~50%, which can still whiff cause of accuracy even with the best build, that and you can't counter Weaponskill, and Counterstance makes even the weakest WS hit for some high numbers if you're unlucky.

Its a great-great ability but it does have its fall backs.

You know, Making Sentinel a 3min recast with 2 min duration (Same effect degrading over time) would make it interesting...

Edit: And yah, the Atonement Nerfing like Souleater is so GD Annoying,i hate capping Enmity and busting out 200 Damage atonements, did they really think it was -that- broken?

Really, why give us it if you're just going to nerf it on everything worthwhile :\

Paladin should be the main tank in the game, which is what SE wants. They should start treating it like one and buff it. Hopefully they do it in the coming updates.

I agree with this, my point isn't that shadow tanking doesn't work it does, I am all for it and have yet to say I'm not. I'm talking about shadow tanking not needing to be for everything and that Ninja and DD taking is dumb, not because its inefficient because it works well, however what I'm saying is that FFXI is going to get lame, boring, and even more snobby if we don't start beating things the hard way. The way that the game was designed for and the way that SE planned for the game to run... I do know how things work, I just hate the easy snob route of doing things thats all. This is a what if idea... So don't be mean I'm trying to discuss not bash!

I love PLD aswell my last Few shells I have been the Main tank for each LS, but since Abyssea came out I find myself playing PLD less and less... and WHM more(nobody wants Drks Q.Q)...

The atonement gimp is one of the big things I find that hurt PLD the most, I dont know what the hell SE was thinking by doing that. I never liked to rely on atonement for hate, but it certainly was Paladin's strongest hate tool at the time, 750 unresisted Damage is just amazing. It made PLD a very strong DD on many HNM Type Mobs, and any long fight for that matter. Also Atonement on Cerb is just Sexy X=

Ive been screwing around with Sanguine Blade lately, need to try it on actual mobs in Abyssea that matter, but been getting 555 Damage consistently in my current set, I want to get more MAB gear but its really hard to come by on PLD :/

This is the current set ive been messing around with


I'm probrably going to turn ASA legs into MAB legs, and Champion's Galea into a MAB hat just to see how much I can pump up the Damage of sanguine on PLD. Not really sure what other uses id have for those pieces SE really shat all over the mini expansion gear latley, its awsome how they make us pay 10$ for each then make the gear ***a year later!

FUUUUUUUUU SE!

I don't think its snobbish to do things the easier, more effective way.

Its how humanity is, throughout history.

People don't wipe their *** with leaves anymore because we have toilet paper.

People don't use horses (largely) for a main mode of transportation because we have cars/trains/planes/etc.

People don't drink water from rivers and hunt in packs to eat (Outside of sport), they go to the store.

People don't wash their clothes in a lake or bucket anymore, we have Washers for that.

For the most part (I.E: The above isn't always the case, just the majority), once a efficient, easier, and more manageable solution is found, it becomes the norm.

Thinking outside the box is nice, its infact what keeps the world going, however humanity has proven, when an easier and time effective solution is discovered, its better to use (for the most part).


I hope you see what i mean =.=a i'm not shooting down your thoughts or opinions, just stating my own as well.

LLol I feel ya, Pld is my main and only job so far, imma level smn and mnk as well and none of them are "bests" in their field really but i like them so its whatever...

my pld is my main also sucks they gimped it. i was in hazymoon on gil not to long ago all we did was tank mobs pld/nin enm/fast cast/haste set up. we used ninja spell to hold hate while also AJ and cures/flash. i just hope SE didnt gimp everything. since they ment for nin to be a DD and pretty much it isnt

Hate Abilities/Spells still work fine, only thing is that the more and more our Max HP rises the less efficient Cure Cheating will become~

just get B mask it's +7 enm lol.

Baha mask is 8 Enmity not 7 lol <.<

Ive gone the last 20+ Baha V2s havent seen a mask drop, being next in line for it. I am pretty content with Assjammer atm tho, still better than what the majority of players have for enmity hats :/

Also Heroes Galea says whats up.