Magian Trial Staves...Melee Edition

I've already decided that I would be working to get the Nirvana staff to free up precious space getting another 8 staves for -perp. With that in mind, I set off to work on the best staff to get to melee with, and to recover mana with spirit taker...but having decided to go with the WS route, I'm now stuck between choosing +10% WS damage or store TP+ and /sam. I know that 10% is nice, but it'd come at 10 hits, whereas with store TP+7 and /sam it lowers my WS build to only 8 hits.

I'd like to divert my topic a bit, and explain that going /sam in abyssea is something doable, and I can keep ifrit out, and warcying like an angry kid who just got his WoW account canceled. This of course means I don't have the responsibility of healing, and maybe I get a refresh every now and then (or maybe just frequent temp item pops). My staff skill is 5 off max, and fully merited, so argueing about acc or how I should look into more -perp really isn't the point or issue...I just want to have fun playing my class instead of just being a mana tower showering delight down on the BLMs.

I'm basically looking for knowledge and input as to which route is the best to go purely for the purposes of getting back the most MP over time. I haven't really played a class that focuses nor utilizes store TP, so it's kinda alien to me. I found a calculator online to get my info on how store TP+7 effects my life.

So, in conclusion: melee SMN=MP=DD. Just need help figuring out which /job (I'm open to any and all insight which yields the best numbers, not just /sam.../war and ifrit could yield some nice MP in a melee party). I don't mean to come off as ignorant of common smn practices, but like I said, I'm looking for this specific setup for soloing and DDing with parties...the Nirvana staff will be my other setup for just looking pretty while my pet does the wetwork.

Like this?



Can't say i tried SMN/SAM, since my sam is 15, but my /thf is 15 (TH1 FTW) for SA spirit taker can give me unlimited MP when doing trials and weak EP, i have a separate melee set when going for spirit takers, haste and DA with a touch of ACC+

Spirit taker is a physical WS too, so obviously a higher DMG staff like nirvana will up dmg, and pizza is awesome since it gives attack+ and acc+

Edit: About the Store TP, as far as I know, store TP is only worth wearing if it affects your Xhit, if you need /sam to help with that it might be better overall to go with a staff that helps with all subs just so you can be more versatile

Or you could go with the Occ. atks. 2-3 times staff instead of the WS one. ;) Ha, just kidding, but a SMN (who also has SCH and BLM) in my LS actually did that. Craziness aside, I'd say it depends on how often you're /SAM. The Store TP on the Sedikutchi doesn't seem to affect how many hits you need to get to 100 TP if you're not subbing SAM, but does if you are /SAM. Personally, I'd go with the WS DMG+10% rather than the Store TP. That +10% damage will likely help more than getting TP in 1 less hit.

I bet you could recovery more mp /rdm than your meleeing every would.

Not really, dasva. With /rdm I get abatement, nothing more unless I'm going with fenrir or diabolos...and not BPing. However with /sam I get hasso, and meditate...which both offer me a tremendous route to get 160mp back with a WS...add to that, the fact that I'm trying to speed up my kills as well as retain MP, and you're on the losing side of the battle. /rdm is great, don't get me wrong, but it's limited use like any other /job setup.

Also as I've said, I'm not looking at -perp and sitting outside of battle, for I already have that avenue thoroughly mapped.

Wtf is abatement? You get refresh and convert. And if you are getting hit with AOEs meleeing I'm gunna slap you

Well, avoid slapping please. I have yet to get hit by aoe in abyssea, and more importantly it seems like you've missed the topic of discussion...I've clearly stated I'm not interested in idle gear. I'm looking to maximize my DD and my MP...all signs point to melee and spirit taker as far as I've noticed. I've played in abyssea as /whm /rdm /sam, and I've seen the best results going /sam because of quick hits, lots of spirit taker, and plenty of refresh from rdms, and generally plenty of temp pots. What I'm looking for is not to just be a buffer, but to be a source of DD; something that seems to be missing from most of my abyssea parties.

Oh, and occasionally I find myself in parties with a lack of sleepers, or skilled ones, so being able to hold a mob, and use seigan and third eye to avoid kiting into dangerous areas is a plus too. ^^

If you're looking for the best Staff, It depends on you. If you suck at paying attention and will likely over-fill TP get the WS Damage:+10% one. If you pay attention and WS @ 100% TP most of the time, the Store TP one is right because those extra 2 hits knocked off your run to 100% are quite valuable.

Hell, the Store TP one might be your best in general even with a bit of overflow, I'm not entirely sure.

As for the Abyssea Bit: I personally would stay /RDM or /SCH, cause when I'm invited to an Abyssea party on SMN i'm usually going to be a Diabolos *** of frequently Odin'n ***for the fun of it.

I know Spirit taker can be powerful, Even back at level 75 there have been situations when i was farming Decent level mobs and was able to break 1k DMG on it, its a surprising WS if you utilize the mods right, if i recall 50%INT/50%MND, its really powerful if you stack it right, same with Retribution and that new Staff WS is apparently really powerful if used right.

However, want to emphasize this a little more, I don't personally think SMN/SAM is going to ever be... Acceptable(?) in Abyssea exp parties, I know that inside Abyssea, with Atmas and such fSTR and w/e is pretty much moot for any exp mob if you have the right ones (Eve, Briarius), and that with the right food and say Stalwart's Tonic, even a SMN Could hit reliably and for decent amounts of damage.

But it'd be tough, and damn near insane, to try and convince any exp party to invite you as a DD. Because even at your best you'd likely only barely surpass all the full Perle SAMs, and thats assuming they're 'tarded.

I know it'd be fun to try, hell i had fun SMN/SAM in campaign lol, it was interesting prospect, but i never thought to bring it to parties in any way.

But yeah, Answered the original question, Hope you find the right staff.

Edit: Should also look at the Fire-Trial Shareeravadi+1, DMG:74 Delay:356 STR+8(?) Attack+22(?), Rarely tasty melee weapon.

I appreciate the input very much Karbuncle. I was looking into the fire staff, but decided to ex-nay it due to the fact that I'm basically looking into a trial weapon merely to bide me over until I get the nirvana staff. So going with the weapon skill path was the quickest and fit nicely into my ideas.

As to the aspect of smn DD, I'd like to reiterate that I'm not trying to topple the DD charts (was averaging about 65 damage a hit without atmas) by bustin' out a stick and going into the fray. I'm merely just looking to extend the life of my mana, and /sam + meditate + hasso + store TP = exactly that. I can keep diabolos out and use an occasional BP without downtime. I was in a an abyssea party last night with diabolos out just to keep the other smn in the party constantly up as well. I didn't get anyone saying anything when while I was out there. Whether they just didn't care because things were going smoothly, they wanted to see what it could do, or they just didn't notice; I don't know. I was even invited with my flag up as smn/sam.

On that note, I think the old ways of thinking about party setups are about to get overhauled once people realize just how easy it is to be a heavy hitter in their chosen field...atmas seem like they're so powerful, any job can pick up a couple, and the output would be so dramatically better, that their stat strength won't even matter so long as they can hit the target with their +80 atma, +20/40 cruor buff, broken str gear that's way overpriced because see +6-8 and think that's the highest number they've seen, not realizing that that's the new norm. Or not, maybe the old thinking will murder creativity as it tends to do.

I'm not really trying to stir the pot here, I'm just looking for something that can kill DC mobs in one pet life. I'm also looking for something that can maximize my potential in abyssea. Generally I find stagnant MP setups like /rdm pointless because I'm losing 2-4 mana a tic still, and there's usually an overabundance of temp pots, or a rdm with refresh II, so going /rdm is redundant and pointless if the main rdm has any kind of love in their heart. So yes, I like to get a good idea of the role I'm about to undertake before going in, because I will either be main heals (/whm) or I'll be refresher (/rdm {only if it's spread out to the point where the mages can't get diabolos refresh if I sic him on something}) or I'll be buffs and DD (/sam).

Garuda can't do that?

I havnt played smn much since the cap was raised but depending on the situation /dnc is a SJ you might also consider. You would most likely add a hit or two to your tp build but against the right mobs you get aspir samba which can give you 4-9mp a hit depending on your staffs delay (seriusly if you never tryed this in campaign you missed out XD).

Personally i really dont see the point of /sam in abyssea...not saying it dont have "uses"...but really you are much more effective as a back line job. With /rdm or hell even /sch you have access to mana regaining spells/abilities, not to mention if you kept your summoning skill capped a banging amount of mana from elemental siiphon alone. Grab a refresh atma and you can keep any avatar perpetuated for a LONG time <garuda being my favorite>. This can serve 2 purposes...garuda can whispering wind when needed, and melee to build TP <coupled with Caller's Pendant> and spam merit pacts to DD. Therefore, i think that using the arugment that /sam for DD purposes and to "conserve" your mp is just sorta silly....but hey thats just me ;p

Whoa whoa whoa, TP on SMN is pretty irrelevant, you should really be swapping staffs on a regular basis to add more DMG to your Blood Pacts. You'll get far more DOT / MP by swapping in a MAB staff or Attack staff or even a -BP staff than you would if you're tossing out the occasional spirit taker.