Return Of MNK/THF????

Ok, so i recently did some tests with Martial Knuckles. I was in Altepa killing scorpions out of boredom, figured i would mess around with Footwork for fun.

While doing this i noticed Dragon Kick doing alot more damage, of course. But then i got to thinking about this weapon, which would obviously boost Dragon Kick damage, as it varies by TP. So i decided to warp back and head to the AH and grab a pair of these knucks. I went back and and continued killing scorpions but now with these knucks on. There was a pretty decent difference in Dragon Kick Damage. About an average of 300 damage more than any other weapon at 100% TP to "Too Weak" scorpions...

I have not tried this in a party or to VT/IT mobs but will soon, ya never know, this maybe could do some nice damage. Then just add a Sneak Attack and this could be BIG... Could this possibly bring back the long gone MNK/THF??? Haha just giving people something to think about. :):)

This is a wonderful proposition with absolutely no flaws whatsoever.

Unfortunately under the use of footwork, your hand to hand weapon's delay and damage are ignored and go completely based on your base kick dmg plus whatever boots you have to boost that dmg. The same goes for Dragon Kick while using footwork. However, attributes will still carry over for your kicks and Dragon Kick, making Useshi and Meteor Cesti ideal for footwork use.

I have yet to test Martial Knuckles, but I won't shut out the idea without seeing some results first. On a final note, MNK/THF can be incredibly powerful with use of Footwork Dragon Kick and or STR build Sneak Attack Full Swing.

My point exactly, you said delay/damage on weapon has no effect while Footwork is active. Which would be good in this situation as this weapon is not very good, DMG +16 delay +96 at level 72 is pretty bad. The only thing you would want from this weapon would be the TP Bonus, which if i am correct, would be the only thing you get.

Also I wanted to note maybe even MNK/DRK in certain situations... Soul Eater and Last Resort would really up the damage. And MNK wouldn't really suffer too much, they have the HP to do this.

Well I'm pretty sure (although not positive) that like many other special bonuses such as crit hit rate% among other things apply strictly only to that weapon. Therefore the TP bonus would not apply unless using a hand to hand based WS outside of Dragon Kick while using Footwork. I think I'll buy a pair and find out for sure. But this is a clever idea, and I'm glad you brought it up.

Also, MNK/DRK is incredibly fun and great at pushing out big numbers real fast but unfortunately is only effective if you have someone cure bombing the hell out of you, as with souleater's % based reduction with super fast attacks of MNK, it's power quickly depletes with your HP as well.

The h2h and footwork do not stack. Tested myself when footwork first came out. Did about 100 DKs with destroyers under footwork and 100 DKs with martial knucks on the same type of mob. dmg average was very very similar with destroyers being slightly ahead (due to random chance, more and more ws would make them close ect)

MNK/thf is always known to be good sub job and was even better known after footwork, problem is most end game shells dnt want MNKs other than for Einga and Salvage, We're Simply TP feeders, and its not worth the lil extra dmg for the amount of tp we hand out and risking the extra 1-3ws's from our tp!!

Best place for MNK/thf tbh is agaist Dark Ixion where you can WS DI and go tp off a TW or EP, and repeat

No.

...

Where the hell did my avatar go? :P

While I don't care for mnk/thf, your reasoning is totally off the mark. Mnk is baout 65-70% pure DoT and 30-35% WS damage. Holding TP will hurt mnk the least out of almost any job. Only 2 jobs that come close to that DoT/WS dmg ratio are thf and nin.

For example, a mnk holding to 200 tp and a sam holding to 200 tp (and not using sekkanoi). The sam is goin gto be hurt tons more than the mnk, since they depend so much on the ws dmg, For sam they're about 30/70 on DoT/WS.

Oric: "Thanks for your reply, it's been bugging me for almost a year."

lol...

Only good use for mnk/thf is on DI u can do 3k kick.

nuff said
Meteor Cesti with your dragonkick build ftw.

I did this also, when i first saw this post, I used destroyers and footwork and dragon kicked skeleton mobs while attempting to get gothic sabotons in behemoth's dominion, after about 20 ws @100 tp i switched to the martial knuckles. I continued to ws the same mobs with the same gear @ 100 tp and noticed dragon kick doing about 100-200 extra damage consistently. when held to 200% dragon kick was obviously performing on the 300% level. After that I went to campaign as mnk/thf and sneak attacked some dragon kicks.. I was very pleased with the results.

Ninja Edit: I'd like to add that due to the fact there was such an obvious difference, I'd assume that footwork/tp bonus may have been "fixed" or "updated" to work @ some point, not that Vegetto was remiss in his testing, he seems like an accomplished player.

just went and rebuilt my drg kick set like a week or 2 ago after doing a 2k+ kick pot in fei yin (ya i knwo weak to blunt) already had dune boots so got martial nuckles and augmented them geting -2% delay. For the time being im tellig myself it applys to footwork dlay till have absolute proof other wise. Figure once i build macros for it take mnk/thf to sky few times.

The only reason anyone should use Foot work, is before a Dragon Kick if you happened to store to 300 TP on accident or something.

If you have Footwork up, you're just a bad DRK. A Footwork MNK/THF is like an Ikishoten SAM. Sure, it works, but you'd be a lot better off doing it RIGHT.

Actually, It's true that you lose a large chunk of DOT if you use footwork, however your tp return is enhanced. Try using footwork with at least 18% haste, you'll have 100% tp before your next sneak attack is even ready. Combine this with /thf, dune boots, and martial knuckles and you can have some fun.

I'll stick w/ my position that martial knuckles do NOT work. Just went and retested. The way martial weps work is they add 100 tp. So I went and did a few 100 tp w/ martial knucks and a few 200 tp w/ bare fist

only diff was one was bare handed 200 tp, other was martial knucks 100 tp. /sam and no brutal, so 0% DA to skew results.




The circled ones are DKs that only landed 1 kick, so we'll exclude them from our averages.

Martial Knucks gets an average of 1055.21 w/ a low of 868

Bare handed 200 tp gets an average of 1228.21 w/ a high of 1402 (which i actually did 1402 twice)

OH GOD THERE GOES THE SKEWED STATS AGAIN!!!

That's strange that barehanded @ 200% seems to do better than 100% martial knuckles..
But if you wanted to test it, wouldn't you use martial @ 100 (or even 200 since the 200 supposedly equals 300%)
and bare handed @ 100 or 200 respectively? I'm just wondering since I don't have a parser, I can only judge by the results I've gotten consistently for myself during my testing, and during campaign battle.
I'm not sure if i'm viewing your parse correctly, But it would appear that @ 100% the martial knuckles are performing @ the 200% level, although.. slightly lower than the actual 200%.

In my experience 100% tp dragon kicks w/ footwork average anywhere from 700-900 with the rare 1k+..

Martial Knuckles are TP +100 for WS. So those 100 would have counted as 200, IF they worked with footwork up. Footwork uses your feet as the weapon though. Dune boots counted as my weapon, not martial knuckles and martial weapons don't apply to other weapons (for example martial bow won't work w/ a non hagun gkt and give the same effect).

If martial worked, the averages should have been equal with martial 100 tp vs bare hand 200 tp since martial weps add 100 tp, but instead, bare handed had a 16% damage increase in average.

He's doing it right, 100% with Martial and 200% with bare hands. Damage-wise WS @ 100%TP with Martial should = WS @ 200% going barehanded since weapon D doesn't affect Dragon Kick. The results are different enough that the low sample size does not call the results into question... Martial Knuckles clearly do nothing for your Dragon Kicks. Interesting.

It would seem like your testing has been far more extensive than my own, and judging from how truthful you've been in past posts that I've seen, I'll just say thank you for the information. I'm slightly embarrassed, but I'd rather know than not ^.^. /bow

Hmm.

Delay, base damage, and apparently TP Bonus are ignored under Footwork. The first two make sense as you're no longer using your hands as weapons, the latter suggests the programming simply ignores your H2H while under Footwork. So... what stats on your H2H are retained under Footwork? Base stats? None? Are those Meteor Cesti actually doing anything for you, or should you just TP in Destroyers as normal in order to maximize damage? Or even Fruit Punches if you're TPing off TW mobs in order to minimize downtime and thus losing potential TP.

I'm pretty sure stats that are not restricted to that weapon only all apply (crit+ only work on that actual wep, tp bonus ect) but I went mnk/bst w/ hades sainti and hit a mob once and charmed and then again w/ destroyers, it got less tp w/ hades sainti (which has subtle blow)

I'm a fan of Footwork, but I havent been using it much. I'm gonna try MNK/THF and assrape Campaign mobs.

Makes sense. TP bonus doesn't apply to the second weapon if you're dual wielding a martial weapon, but the global stats like ACC, STR, etc all do apply to both weapons. Footwork uses your feet instead of your hands, same logic.

I personally like Wagh Baghnakhs for footwork. I think the Hidden Effect: Attack +14, Accuracy +5 is nice for Dragon Kick. http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Wagh_Baghnakhs

Speaking if the effects of h2h during footwork, Now that this martial knuckle thing is settled.. What about Useshi? They have a "Kick attacks" +3 bonus, is there anyway to test if this is still active during footwork?