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Hundred Knives
 Carbuncle.Virtuosus
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 683
By Carbuncle.Virtuosus 2010-09-21 15:08:17
Asura.Tristean said: Why are you WSing in TP gear on DNC? Pretty much the same for SAM too..
So if we're talking about actual damage... shouldn't you be doing WS sets... not TP sets?
I would understand the TP set if you were describing how fast a SAM can get TP and how fast a DNC can get tp in your description. However, you are talking about damage.
Nah, I'm actually too lazy to make the WS sets. Why? Because it's *** pointless. We all know the end results. Let's fastfoward: SAM outdamages DNC. DNC is a support/DD hybrid. Deal with it, guys.
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By yunalaysca 2010-09-21 15:59:15
Fenrir.Mankey
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1323
By Fenrir.Mankey 2010-09-21 22:38:15
By Exc from a previous topic covering this: WTF is this thread.
Hasso is -10% haste:
Hasso increase damage by 10-almost 50% depending on other buffs/gear.
Saber Dance: Assuming 50% DA it will double attack 50 times in 100 swings. Assuming you already have brutal earring that's a gain of 50 swings to inital bonus of 5.
So 105 swings vs 150 swings = 105/150 = about a 30% increase in damage.
Anyone who says saber dance is better than hasso should be blacklisted.
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 Asura.Ina
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 17912
By Asura.Ina 2010-09-21 23:14:45
sounds like somebodys on there period....
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Fenrir.Mankey
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1323
By Fenrir.Mankey 2010-09-21 23:24:46
Asura.Ina said: sounds like somebodys on there period.... More so amazed on how HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE people can be. Wishful thinking is one thing, but claiming something is a fact using bad math and speculation is just laughable :(
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By yunalaysca 2010-09-22 01:56:05
Fenrir.Mankey said: Asura.Ina said: sounds like somebodys on there period.... More so amazed on how HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE people can be. Wishful thinking is one thing, but claiming something is a fact using bad math and speculation is just laughable :( i really would like to know how 10% haste and 12 str gives you 50% more dmg
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 382
By Asura.Tristean 2010-09-22 03:53:57
yunalaysca said: Fenrir.Mankey said: Asura.Ina said: sounds like somebodys on there period.... More so amazed on how HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE people can be. Wishful thinking is one thing, but claiming something is a fact using bad math and speculation is just laughable :( i really would like to know how 10% haste and 12 str gives you 50% more dmg
From the buffs and other stuffs that he isn't factoring in for DNC obviously.
Fenrir.Mankey
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1323
By Fenrir.Mankey 2010-09-22 04:04:07
Asura.Tristean said: yunalaysca said: Fenrir.Mankey said: Asura.Ina said: sounds like somebodys on there period.... More so amazed on how HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE people can be. Wishful thinking is one thing, but claiming something is a fact using bad math and speculation is just laughable :( i really would like to know how 10% haste and 12 str gives you 50% more dmg
From the buffs and other stuffs that he isn't factoring in for DNC obviously. It wasnt even a comparison of DNC and SAM directly, it was of Saber Dance and Hasso you illiterate *** :( I wasn't sure how someone could honestly have this opinion on the matter till i realize what type of people were debating the issue, yea Bro DNC is a DD gg
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Fenrir.Mankey
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1323
By Fenrir.Mankey 2010-09-22 04:10:37
And Sorry if that sounds a bit harsh, but you are basically trying to convince me Double Attack > Haste at this point and that blows my mind, idk
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Fenrir.Gradd
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1097
By Fenrir.Gradd 2010-09-22 04:14:14
Double attack has dimishing returns, haste has increasing returns, both have been proven already. If you are arguing things that are well known and true then you are a *** retard period.
DNC is an amazing job, but its no DD its soul purpose in this game is haste samba and curing Real DD that is it, if you are doing something else then you are doing it wrong.
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By yunalaysca 2010-09-22 04:14:17
Fenrir.Mankey said: And Sorry if that sounds a bit harsh, but you are basically trying to convince me Double Attack > Haste at this point and that blows my mind, idk i understand where you are coming from, but i still would like to know how you get a 50% dmg boost from hasso
Fenrir.Mankey
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1323
By Fenrir.Mankey 2010-09-22 04:16:58
yunalaysca said: Fenrir.Mankey said: And Sorry if that sounds a bit harsh, but you are basically trying to convince me Double Attack > Haste at this point and that blows my mind, idk i understand where you are coming from, but i still would like to know how you get a 50% dmg boost from hasso Was Excercior's Math, but it translates w/ Marchx2/haste each additional haste past a certain percent is roughly a direct 2% increase in overall dmg ws frequency/over all DOT, Double Attack will NOT do this EDIT 3%
Fenrir.Gradd
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1097
By Fenrir.Gradd 2010-09-22 04:17:18
yunalaysca said: Fenrir.Mankey said: And Sorry if that sounds a bit harsh, but you are basically trying to convince me Double Attack > Haste at this point and that blows my mind, idk i understand where you are coming from, but i still would like to know how you get a 50% dmg boost from hasso
1% haste is rougly equal to a 3% increase in overall Damage, its pretty damn amazing what haste does for you, thats why things like askar head and Denali Bonnet are deemed garbage over turban.
By yunalaysca 2010-09-22 04:23:13
Fenrir.Gradd said: yunalaysca said: Fenrir.Mankey said: And Sorry if that sounds a bit harsh, but you are basically trying to convince me Double Attack > Haste at this point and that blows my mind, idk i understand where you are coming from, but i still would like to know how you get a 50% dmg boost from hasso
1% haste is rougly equal to a 3% increase in overall Damage, its pretty damn amazing what haste does for you, thats why things like askar head and Denali Bonnet are deemed garbage over turban. no ***
Fenrir.Mankey said: yunalaysca said: Fenrir.Mankey said: And Sorry if that sounds a bit harsh, but you are basically trying to convince me Double Attack > Haste at this point and that blows my mind, idk i understand where you are coming from, but i still would like to know how you get a 50% dmg boost from hasso Was Excercior's Math, but it translates w/ Marchx2/haste each additional haste past a certain percent is roughly a direct 2% increase in overall dmg ws frequency/over all DOT, Double Attack will NOT do this EDIT 3% so you're saying more or less that you are argueing that sam is better than dnc for zerg. i agree.
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Fenrir.Mankey
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1323
By Fenrir.Mankey 2010-09-22 04:25:43
Who said anything about a zerg? Generally all parties if organized correctly should have 2 DD, BRD, DNC, COR RDM.... thats not a zerg, its just a situation where DNC is haste samba ***, like its suppose to be, not some crazy parse machine like you are trying to make it out to be...
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By yunalaysca 2010-09-22 04:29:33
Fenrir.Mankey said: Who said anything about a zerg? Generally all parties if organized correctly should have 2 DD, BRD, DNC, COR RDM.... thats not a zerg, its just a situation where DNC is haste samba ***, like its suppose to be, not some crazy parse machine like you are trying to make it out to be... ok i'll try to not to go into that much more since we are pretty much on opposite ends of the argument and not going to budge.
what would your view be if both jobs didn't have outside buffs such as march, cor rolls, etc etc. and sam did not have haste samba. and why.
By yunalaysca 2010-09-22 04:32:35
yunalaysca said: Fenrir.Mankey said: Who said anything about a zerg? Generally all parties if organized correctly should have 2 DD, BRD, DNC, COR RDM.... thats not a zerg, its just a situation where DNC is haste samba ***, like its suppose to be, not some crazy parse machine like you are trying to make it out to be... ok i'll try to not to go into that much more since we are pretty much on opposite ends of the argument and not going to budge.
what would your view be if both jobs didn't have outside buffs such as march, cor rolls, etc etc. and sam did not have haste samba. and why. and i mean this in a realistic situation not solo. alliance in abyssea for example, sam not in the same party, brd buffing mages, lazy rdm/whm etc etc
Server: Ifrit
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5779
By Ifrit.Eikechi 2010-09-22 04:34:41
yunalaysca said:
what would your view be if both jobs didn't have outside buffs such as march, cor rolls, etc etc. and sam did not have haste samba. and why.
I think the overall weakness of daggers in general, would give the edge to Sam and the high dmg GK's can have with moderate delay. And in Blaire's statement before about Sams not being able to do 200+ dmg/swing... well as an 85 sam i just did that as I was ToMing, without any buffs..just my WS set 84+55. My str is kind of nice, even though there is much room for improvement in my WS set, despite being at +55 already.
Fenrir.Mankey
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1323
By Fenrir.Mankey 2010-09-22 04:34:54
yunalaysca said: Fenrir.Mankey said: Who said anything about a zerg? Generally all parties if organized correctly should have 2 DD, BRD, DNC, COR RDM.... thats not a zerg, its just a situation where DNC is haste samba ***, like its suppose to be, not some crazy parse machine like you are trying to make it out to be... ok i'll try to not to go into that much more since we are pretty much on opposite ends of the argument and not going to budge.
what would your view be if both jobs didn't have outside buffs such as march, cor rolls, etc etc. and sam did not have haste samba. and why. There is no opposite end, I dont even understand how its even a argument, DNC is NOT equal too or as good as SAM in the DD department..... In a low haste situation Dual wield DDs do better against hasso jobs but still fall behind, now if the SAM was a moron and was eating pizza as you parsed, of course you would keep up, but on paper, SAM > DNC 9/1
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By yunalaysca 2010-09-22 04:40:07
Fenrir.Mankey said: yunalaysca said: Fenrir.Mankey said: Who said anything about a zerg? Generally all parties if organized correctly should have 2 DD, BRD, DNC, COR RDM.... thats not a zerg, its just a situation where DNC is haste samba ***, like its suppose to be, not some crazy parse machine like you are trying to make it out to be... ok i'll try to not to go into that much more since we are pretty much on opposite ends of the argument and not going to budge.
what would your view be if both jobs didn't have outside buffs such as march, cor rolls, etc etc. and sam did not have haste samba. and why. There is no opposite end, I dont even understand how its even a argument, DNC is NOT equal too or as good as SAM in the DD department..... In a low haste situation Dual wield DDs do better against hasso jobs but still fall behind, now if the SAM was a moron and was eating pizza as you parsed, of course you would keep up, but on paper, SAM > DNC 9/1 i personally have not made mention of what i parsed and i believe the only one saying anything about pizza and that was blaire and her dnc using pizza.
and since you mention sam food, what of dnc food?
By yunalaysca 2010-09-22 04:42:29
Ifrit.Eikechi said: yunalaysca said:
what would your view be if both jobs didn't have outside buffs such as march, cor rolls, etc etc. and sam did not have haste samba. and why.
I think the overall weakness of daggers in general, would give the edge to Sam and the high dmg GK's can have with moderate delay. And in Blaire's statement before about Sams not being able to do 200+ dmg/swing... well as an 85 sam i just did that as I was ToMing, without any buffs..just my WS set 84+55. My str is kind of nice, even though there is much room for improvement in my WS set, despite being at +55 already. which is understandable, my gear is faaaaaaar from being finished.
btw did you look at the dmg mod links i give you? on almost every occasion aside from skeletons and hounds, daggers has a 30% dmg boost compared to GK on avg.
Fenrir.Mankey
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1323
By Fenrir.Mankey 2010-09-22 04:43:15
I meant the irl player was eating pizza and not being a active player, but DNC is forced to use pizza, while any well equipped SAM even 5hit OAT /DRG w/ 26% haste will have capped acc on nearly every current exp mob while using meat....
Fenrir.Gradd
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1097
By Fenrir.Gradd 2010-09-22 04:46:01
You cannot physically force a job to go out and do something that is just not *** possible DNC will never outparse a well geared SAM or any competent DD for that matter.
But hey guys lets get real she outparsed a Sam in Full AF1 and thinks its a big deal~
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By yunalaysca 2010-09-22 04:47:02
Fenrir.Mankey said: I meant the irl player was eating pizza and not being a active player, but DNC is forced to use pizza, while any well equipped SAM even 5hit OAT /DRG w/ 26% haste will have capped acc on nearly every current exp mob while using meat.... i wouldn't say forced to, i havent used pizza in a really really long time. on dnc i either use yellow curry or coeurl subs +1.
By yunalaysca 2010-09-22 04:49:41
Fenrir.Gradd said: You cannot physically force a job to go out and do something that is just not *** possible DNC will never outparse a well geared SAM or any competent DD for that matter.
But hey guys lets get real she outparsed a Sam in Full AF1 and thinks its a big deal~ we heard you the first time, you dont need to re-word it in every post. i understand what you are saying, and yet you havent put anything worth while in the topic as to why or anything of the like.
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Server: Ifrit
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5779
By Ifrit.Eikechi 2010-09-22 04:50:26
yunalaysca said:
btw did you look at the dmg mod links i give you? on almost every occasion aside from skeletons and hounds, daggers has a 30% dmg boost compared to GK on avg.
i got no PM of any links :(
Fenrir.Gradd
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1097
By Fenrir.Gradd 2010-09-22 04:50:27
You are the one spitting out *** information thinking you are some god send of a *** DNC that can suddenly do what nobody else can.
I mean *** seriously gtfo
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By yunalaysca 2010-09-22 04:52:13
Fenrir.Gradd said: You are the one spitting out *** information thinking you are some god send of a *** DNC that can suddenly do what nobody else can.
I mean *** seriously gtfo iirc you dont play dnc, so gtfo
By yunalaysca 2010-09-22 04:53:14
Ifrit.Eikechi said: yunalaysca said:
btw did you look at the dmg mod links i give you? on almost every occasion aside from skeletons and hounds, daggers has a 30% dmg boost compared to GK on avg.
i got no PM of any links :( yunalaysca said: damage mods
i said 30-35s which should include delays.
and yes you're right, its not possible for it to be 100% accurate and yeah its a kick in the chest if you miss with all that. which in that case you have to wait 15s
also no foot rise! gives 5 steps every 3min.
so i realised this yesterday during abyssea; Dnc has become quite fast, and it with the new armor that came out it isnt hard to cap out your gear haste cap. and not to mention (i havent quite verified this yet) that with the equip like charis necklace and auric dagger, dnc's dual wield surpasses nin's. just out of speculation but do you think with /war and saber dnc that you will deal more dmg if you just ride it and not ws if you have capped out all your haste gear + dual wield?
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