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[XIV] Tanaka Debunks fatigue rumours
By Zekko 2010-08-25 16:29:02
Phoenix.Avelle said: Because crafting in 14 is the absolute worst system I've ever seen of any MMO and I've seen some tragic ***.
qft
Alexander.Gib
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By Alexander.Gib 2010-08-25 16:34:07
Phoenix.Avelle said: Cerberus.Kalyna said: Alexander.Gib said: sure the one hour system might be false but still
http://kotaku.com/5621786/final-fantasy-xivs-play+limiting-fatigue-system-explained
so basically you have 15 hours a week to play a job before you don't get XP
that just awful, I'm sorry if you're doing something like that, you better have a crap ton of jobs, not like 8
I find it funny that they go from FFXI were the game yells at you for not grinding to FF14 where the games yells at you for grinding
there will be 18 jobs avail when you start ffxiv
And how many of those 18 are crafting? Because crafting in 14 is the absolute worst system I've ever seen of any MMO and I've seen some tragic ***. They keep coming up with reasons why people aren't going to play this game.
I'm pretty sure 8 of them are 'jobs'
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By Siren.Enternius 2010-08-25 16:36:30
You're pretty sure 7 of them are the confirmed classes.
Also in the .dats are 10 more unreleased classes.
- Fencer
- Enforcer
- Musketeer
- Samurai
- Sentinel
- Assassin
- Flayer
- Mystic
- Bard
- Shepherd
Gilgamesh.Tirantus
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By Gilgamesh.Tirantus 2010-08-25 17:10:17
Siren.Enternius said: You're pretty sure 7 of them are the confirmed classes.
Also in the .dats are 10 more unreleased classes.
- Fencer
- Enforcer
- Musketeer
- Samurai
- Sentinel
- Assassin
- Flayer
- Mystic
- Bard
- Shepherd Problem is with the game so close to release I highly doubt they will release any more classes. These could be scrapped ideas for classes for all we know. Or they may not see the light of day until the first expansion comes out a year and a half from now.
I'm all for making the game more casual. But the first rule in a game with a monthly subscription: Never ever punish your customers for wanting to play the game.
EDIT: at most I could see them releasing the rest of the crafting classes and maybe one more mage class tops.
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By semimmortal 2010-08-25 17:31:37
Gilgamesh.Tirantus said: Siren.Enternius said: You're pretty sure 7 of them are the confirmed classes.
Also in the .dats are 10 more unreleased classes.
- Fencer
- Enforcer
- Musketeer
- Samurai
- Sentinel
- Assassin
- Flayer
- Mystic
- Bard
- Shepherd Problem is with the game so close to release I highly doubt they will release any more classes. These could be scrapped ideas for classes for all we know. Or they may not see the light of day until the first expansion comes out a year and a half from now.
I'm all for making the game more casual. But the first rule in a game with a monthly subscription: Never ever punish your customers for wanting to play the game.
EDIT: at most I could see them releasing the rest of the crafting classes and maybe one more mage class tops. Oh no. No no NO...
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By Leviathan.Quetzacoatl 2010-08-25 17:33:27
Pandemonium.Kajidourden
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By Pandemonium.Kajidourden 2010-08-25 17:41:43
Zekko said: Phoenix.Avelle said: Because crafting in 14 is the absolute worst system I've ever seen of any MMO and I've seen some tragic ***.
qft
Are you serious? Wow the crafting is awesome compared to what ffxi has. Not only do you actually get experience for doing it (making it not a time sink to do as you level up) but the crafting leves actually provide good rewards that you can use (at least as of now in beta). The system is akin to EQ2's crafting system, which is based on more than just numbers. Sure, you can pretty well figure out the best way to craft an items after you've figured out what's optimal for that particular recipe, but it's still a hell of an improvement. Most games have no interaction at all in their crafting, dumbing it down to "Hurr Durr these things go together", so an interactive crafting system that actually has rewards (that includes xp) is more than welcome to me.
Edit: On topic, I think these guys might be taking the fact that you can only get levequests every 48hours earth time as "fatigue", which is stupid.
Kujata.Akeda
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By Kujata.Akeda 2010-08-25 17:42:16
I think people tend to forget you CAN change the game with updates.
Just look at EQ2, it had some crazy quest system on release where you had to do certain things to lvl up, now it's completely gone and a lot of things are different now then when it was released. Same for FF11 and I'm sure for 14 too.
By Zekko 2010-08-25 17:53:08
Pandemonium.Kajidourden said: Zekko said: Phoenix.Avelle said: Because crafting in 14 is the absolute worst system I've ever seen of any MMO and I've seen some tragic ***.
qft
Are you serious? Wow the crafting is awesome compared to what ffxi has. Not only do you actually get experience for doing it (making it not a time sink to do as you level up) but the crafting leves actually provide good rewards that you can use (at least as of now in beta). The system is akin to EQ2's crafting system, which is based on more than just numbers. Sure, you can pretty well figure out the best way to craft an items after you've figured out what's optimal for that particular recipe, but it's still a hell of an improvement. Most games have no interaction at all in their crafting, dumbing it down to "Hurr Durr these things go together", so an interactive crafting system that actually has rewards (that includes xp) is more than welcome to me.
Edit: On topic, I think these guys might be taking the fact that you can only get levequests every 48hours earth time as "fatigue", which is stupid.
Have you seen the menu lag/interface for it? It's horrible. I dont want to gave to click through 20 menus to start crafting.
Pandemonium.Kajidourden
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By Pandemonium.Kajidourden 2010-08-25 17:55:03
Zekko said: Pandemonium.Kajidourden said: Zekko said: Phoenix.Avelle said: Because crafting in 14 is the absolute worst system I've ever seen of any MMO and I've seen some tragic ***.
qft
Are you serious? Wow the crafting is awesome compared to what ffxi has. Not only do you actually get experience for doing it (making it not a time sink to do as you level up) but the crafting leves actually provide good rewards that you can use (at least as of now in beta). The system is akin to EQ2's crafting system, which is based on more than just numbers. Sure, you can pretty well figure out the best way to craft an items after you've figured out what's optimal for that particular recipe, but it's still a hell of an improvement. Most games have no interaction at all in their crafting, dumbing it down to "Hurr Durr these things go together", so an interactive crafting system that actually has rewards (that includes xp) is more than welcome to me.
Edit: On topic, I think these guys might be taking the fact that you can only get levequests every 48hours earth time as "fatigue", which is stupid.
Have you seen the menu lag/interface for it? It's horrible. I dont want to gave to click through 20 menus to start crafting.
OH yes, I misunderstood what you meant then my mistake. The UI in general is just slow, but i'm sure that will be addressed in due time. I still craft, mostly because of the rewards and to help kill some time.
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By Siren.Enternius 2010-08-25 17:56:19
Zekko said: Pandemonium.Kajidourden said: Zekko said: Phoenix.Avelle said: Because crafting in 14 is the absolute worst system I've ever seen of any MMO and I've seen some tragic ***.
qft
Are you serious? Wow the crafting is awesome compared to what ffxi has. Not only do you actually get experience for doing it (making it not a time sink to do as you level up) but the crafting leves actually provide good rewards that you can use (at least as of now in beta). The system is akin to EQ2's crafting system, which is based on more than just numbers. Sure, you can pretty well figure out the best way to craft an items after you've figured out what's optimal for that particular recipe, but it's still a hell of an improvement. Most games have no interaction at all in their crafting, dumbing it down to "Hurr Durr these things go together", so an interactive crafting system that actually has rewards (that includes xp) is more than welcome to me.
Edit: On topic, I think these guys might be taking the fact that you can only get levequests every 48hours earth time as "fatigue", which is stupid.
Have you seen the menu lag/interface for it? It's horrible. I dont want to gave to click through 20 menus to start crafting. Okay at first I didn't want to take sides because I'm not in the beta so I don't know how crafting works, but this is just pure, unadulterated stupidity.
You're belittling the whole game because of the interface in the beta? That's like not buying a new car because it has a piece of paper taped to the windshield! It's a guaranteed fact that the menus and interface will improve once the full game ships, and yet you write FFXIV off without a second thought because of something that SE could even change in a 20 minute maintenance a few months down the line, even if they didn't get it right in time to ship the game.
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Phoenix.Oumura
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By Phoenix.Oumura 2010-08-25 18:04:27
Kujata.Akeda said: I think people tend to forget you CAN change the game with updates.
Just look at EQ2, it had some crazy quest system on release where you had to do certain things to lvl up, now it's completely gone and a lot of things are different now then when it was released. Same for FF11 and I'm sure for 14 too. ^This.
FAR TOO MANY PEOPLE seem to forget its a damn beta. Get your heads out of your *** and just wait for the damn release. Things will change.
Honestly, the crafting system isn't all that bad. Yeah its a little slow to start up, but I'm sure it will be updated in the future.
Now if only I could stop breaking my freaking synths. >_>;
By Zekko 2010-08-25 18:05:04
Well yes the lag/crashes wont be in the full version but the crafting sucks atm. You actually have to click through a few dozen(like 10) screens to actually do start, id prefer the FFXI way tbh.
By Zekko 2010-08-25 18:05:45
Phoenix.Oumura said: Kujata.Akeda said: I think people tend to forget you CAN change the game with updates.
Just look at EQ2, it had some crazy quest system on release where you had to do certain things to lvl up, now it's completely gone and a lot of things are different now then when it was released. Same for FF11 and I'm sure for 14 too. ^This.
FAR TOO MANY PEOPLE seem to forget its a damn beta. Get your heads out of your *** and just wait for the damn release. Things will change.
80% of the things wont change from the Beta from the retail.
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By Ifrit.Darkanaseur 2010-08-25 18:11:43
Zekko said:
80% of the things wont change from the Beta from the retail.
Uh no, everything that has a majority dislike during Beta phase in any game is removed/edited/fixed/replaced for release. That's the point with few exceptions.
Phoenix.Oumura
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By Phoenix.Oumura 2010-08-25 18:13:11
Ifrit.Darkanaseur said: Zekko said:
80% of the things wont change from the Beta from the retail.
Uh no, everything that has a majority dislike during Beta phase in any game is removed/edited/fixed/replaced for release. That's the point with few exceptions. YES. Thank you. Contrary to popular belief...SE has actually LISTENED to testers.
By Zekko 2010-08-25 18:14:48
Many dislike fatigue and 48 hour guildleves! they are not getting removed though
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By Ifrit.Darkanaseur 2010-08-25 18:15:12
It's not just SE, every developer does it, I see it happen all the time. Releasing a Beta test then ignoring the testers is wtf.
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By Ifrit.Darkanaseur 2010-08-25 18:17:12
Zekko said: Many dislike fatigue and 48 hour guildleves! they are not getting removed though
Except nobody really knows what Fatigue does and have based it off rumours and speculation. Majority dislike doesn't mean half the FFXI playerbase, it includes people who don't play, critics, testers, community feedback. They aren't going to state "removing x feature", they just do it.
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By Siren.Enternius 2010-08-25 18:17:16
And it's not just beta either.
If there's a big flaw in a game, it won't last more than 2 days before you see an emergency maintenance.
Maybe next time you guys have to sit through a 2 hour maintenance, instead of bitching about having to go without FFXI for a whole 2 hours, you should be thanking SE for taking your opinions into consideration.
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By Ifrit.Darkanaseur 2010-08-25 18:18:41
Siren.Enternius said: Maybe next time you guys have to sit through a 2 hour maintenance, instead of bitching about having to go without FFXI for a whole 2 hours, you should be thanking SE for taking your opinions into consideration.
This^
Phoenix.Oumura
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By Phoenix.Oumura 2010-08-25 18:18:42
Zekko said: Many dislike fatigue and 48 hour guildleves! they are not getting removed though As stated in the OP, fatigue is still up in the air. All we have to go on is speculation, which so far seems to have been mostly ***.
::Edit::
Dark, you beat me to it. XD
Phoenix.Avelle
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By Phoenix.Avelle 2010-08-25 18:21:32
Siren.Enternius said: Zekko said: Pandemonium.Kajidourden said: Zekko said: Phoenix.Avelle said: Because crafting in 14 is the absolute worst system I've ever seen of any MMO and I've seen some tragic ***.
qft
Are you serious? Wow the crafting is awesome compared to what ffxi has. Not only do you actually get experience for doing it (making it not a time sink to do as you level up) but the crafting leves actually provide good rewards that you can use (at least as of now in beta). The system is akin to EQ2's crafting system, which is based on more than just numbers. Sure, you can pretty well figure out the best way to craft an items after you've figured out what's optimal for that particular recipe, but it's still a hell of an improvement. Most games have no interaction at all in their crafting, dumbing it down to "Hurr Durr these things go together", so an interactive crafting system that actually has rewards (that includes xp) is more than welcome to me.
Edit: On topic, I think these guys might be taking the fact that you can only get levequests every 48hours earth time as "fatigue", which is stupid.
Have you seen the menu lag/interface for it? It's horrible. I dont want to gave to click through 20 menus to start crafting. Okay at first I didn't want to take sides because I'm not in the beta so I don't know how crafting works, but this is just pure, unadulterated stupidity.
You're belittling the whole game because of the interface in the beta? That's like not buying a new car because it has a piece of paper taped to the windshield! It's a guaranteed fact that the menus and interface will improve once the full game ships, and yet you write FFXIV off without a second thought because of something that SE could even change in a 20 minute maintenance a few months down the line, even if they didn't get it right in time to ship the game.
Oh you mean how SE has made numerous changes and improvements to the FFXI UI after release? Oh they didn't? Windower had to come out to make the UI in this game tolerable? My bad, you make an excellent point sir.
Phoenix.Oumura
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By Phoenix.Oumura 2010-08-25 18:22:37
First time for everything I suppose~
While I'll agree SE did fail kinda hard with XI's UI, it doesn't necessarily mean history will repeat itself.
At least hopefully it won't here.
Phoenix.Avelle
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By Phoenix.Avelle 2010-08-25 18:39:40
People keep blindly supporting FF14 simply because it's still in beta. You evaluate the game as it's being developed, you don't say "LOL it's in beta guys, everything is going to be sunshine, rainbows, and puppy dogs in September" and then look the opposite direction.
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By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-08-25 19:27:49
Ok I have lots of things to say right now regarding Fatigue, I've found even more sources and this once Kotaku happens to be reporting it wrong (I've sent them a report.) bare with me whilst I quote this.
(Also those complaining about UI Lag should stop, seeing as by time of retail the UI and menu's will be client side and not server side)
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By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-08-25 19:33:14
FFXIV.CORE said:
-B3 allowed for longer sessions in single sittings.
-In order to promote party play, skill/experience points earned were greatly increased.
-The skill/experience earned from weak enemies was lowered, but had failed to pop up on initial bug reports (and was later fixed via maintenance).
According to the last bug report skill/experience able to be earned was above what had been planned, therefore people hit the limit much more quickly than hoped for. That is the biggest cause. Yet another problem was that we were unable to adjust guildleve experience and the experience-earned limit at the same time.
FFXIV.CORE said:
This all is still currently under development, and we have plans to make the limit more palatable in answer to all the tester feedback we received concerning this. In particular we would like to address the speed with which experience begins to drop off and are already looking into it.
Also, since experience points fatigue carries over despite changing weapons, we plan to make it not so harsh.
At the very least, we promise to not have people hitting these limits in a short period of time, such as during the start of B3.
FFXIV.CORE said: The decrease in earnings when gathering is based on your actions taken with that class and is unrelated to the aforementioned limits. This is also currently under review and is planned for adjustment in accordance with many testers’ opinions.
Surplus experience is currently not being used. However, we have received many comments suggesting some sort of reward be put into effect regarding it, and we think that’s a pretty interesting idea. We don’t want to get ahead of ourselves, though, and we’re currently investigating the possibilities.
Open Beta will not just see changes to the issues stated above but will also see adjustments made to encourage party play even more (such as an increase to skill points), which the team is currently hard at work on adjusting. We hope you’ll all test it out when the time comes.
[Source: http://www.ffxivcore.com/topic/11964-surplus-and-you-komoto-speaks/]
Kotaku was referencing the current exp earned through the gamescom tests, as it was hitting cap in 8 hours due to roughly 3x exp being earned due to a bug.
I'd also like to note the limits aren't based on time, but EXP.
The place where these tests were done, were with the level 40 characters, and therefore exp was higher than earlier areas, and 3x more again.
I'm feeling quite pleased with the Fatigue system as I've never had a problem with it, It may seem a bit harsh but it has already been said to be being explored which keeps me pretty happy.
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By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-08-25 19:39:38
And just so you know people, I was sleeping for 12+ hours I would have been back sooner otherwise >.>
By Zekko 2010-08-25 19:54:17
Shiva.Flionheart said: And just so you know people, I was sleeping for 12+ hours I would have been back sooner otherwise >.>
Lazy ***
Alexander.Tidusblitz
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By Alexander.Tidusblitz 2010-08-25 19:54:37
Kotaku was quoting exactly what the FFXIV core thing said.
Quote: Within the first eight hours of play, you can earn 100% experience. The seven hour period following will see your possible experience gradually approach zero.
This system is on a weekly timer. After a week has passed since you began skilling that particular weapon, the timer will reset. It will start anew when you skill up again.
Any experience earned past that point is saved as “surplus.” There is surplus for each class, and if you begin to see it please consider playing another class and adjust accordingly.
However, experience points are not specific to any class and therefore the decrease in experience points is not affected by changing classes.
That’s how the system stands as of right now.
Taken right from the FFXIV core thing. They dont say if the 8-7 hour thing is the bug. From how he talks, the 8-7 is normal. And resets every week. Which is tarded.
Firstly, I'm sorry for spamming XIV threads, I just want to get this cleared up :/ I wish we had a general news topic.
Surplus points: a new feature in the Final Fantasy XIV beta was introduced recently and has testers and fans on the outside quite confused. Most people consider it akin to "fatigue," where a character is beset with limitations after a certain amount of play. With no official announcement or explanation on how these points work, fan sites and forums have been struggling to figure them out -- often leading to some harsh criticism of the game. Now, Producer Hiromichi Tanaka seems to have built up some "fatigue" of his own, and lashed out at foreign sites on Twitter today, calling them full of rumors and fabrications.Hiromichi.Tanaka said: "Foreign sites have lots of false rumors. They throw together words and fabricate remarks. Then Japanese sites take this and further [falsify it through] mistranslation. The fatigue point criticism has absolutely nothing to do with the actual [system] and is just full of wild ideas." In other words, the "fatigue point" system as people discuss it in forums is supposedly nothing like the system as it is in the actual game. Furthermore, the last line states that he believes too many people are just coming up with what they think fatigue might be and making the discussion even worse.
Sure, wild speculation is not hard to find while wading through any popular forum, but the assertion that this is the fault of foreign sites is a little harsh. A quick glance at the a thread called 疲労度システム (fatigue point system) in the JP Beta forums reveals pages of baffled testers, trying to figure out what the system does exactly. Many early replies to Tanaka's post on Twitter also pointed out the lack of any explanation before putting the system into the game.
At least we know the producer of the game has been apprised of the issue. As mentioned many times, the entire testing process was based on building the game in accordance to player feedback. Will it be received and implemented into the design process, or continue to be dismissed as wild delusions? Hopefully, we will see a more measured response in the coming days.
[Source: http://ffxiv.zam.com/story.html?story=23080]
Apparently no-one knows what surplus EXP or what the fatigue system is yet. All the interviews have been misconstrued, and the famous "You can only play for 1 hour" rumour was simply falsified information from 2chan trying to stir shit.
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