What Is The Earliest Lvl Range For Abyssea?

That was an obvious troll right there. No way you're that stupid to come out and flat out say PLD's are worthless in event settings.

MNK SAM DRK BLU tanks wassup =\ We hardly ever use PLDs.

tl;dr

But I saw someone said "PLD should go /nin to DD rather than /war"

I dont get that really, /nin offers nothing for DD'ing for pld, what you gonna do? dw swords? lol. /war for berserk, double attack, attack bonus (JT) should beat /nin when it comes to DD any day, no matter what job you are on. Or hell, even /sam with great sword.

And for PC, what are you doing in abyssea threads anyway?

I can think of... 3 mobs I'd default to a PLD on. AV is zerged so that's out, PW is a trophy kill and you should be putting those pops into mythics, and the Soulflayer ZNM only favors PLD because of his physical and magic shields (PLD can work on both via Atonement).You're using Joyeuse, which depreciates the value of DA. DW II + Suppa is a ~20% increase in TP phase damage and also adds a hit to weaponskills... a ~20% increase to Vorpal Blade! Believe it or not /NIN does in fact beat /WAR for DPS if you can Joyeuse/Justice. Not sure if Antea's a better mainhand these days though.

I main healed entire alliance for about 2 hours because of mages leaving while popping chests. Its no problem if you have a decent group.

Just asking out of curiosity, You don't use PLD as main assist in your dynamis? That's an event setting. If not what would be the advantages of using one of the DD jobs listed above a PLD?

No...? Use a DD with Provoke. Was semi-worthwhile in Xarcabard pre-update though.

EDIT: Killing faster.

EDIT2: That was to keep mobs off the sleepers though, and /RDM got nerfed. I'd use BLU for that instead now if I wasn't confident in my sleepers.

IDK I'd rather have a PLD. Higher defense. Higher survivability. As a just in case for when pulls go bad or links (which is a given in dynamis at least once a night). Although I've never seen a DD attempt to tank in a situation like dynamis. I'd have to see it to be able to compare.

lol
Honestly, not to any significant degree. The only dangerous 2hr is Eagle Eye Shot, and you're not always going to have Sentinel up for that. Besides, a /NIN DD can usually blink it away... alternatively, let a MNK eat it.
BLU is a more effective CC job (AoE Flash, multiple AoE stuns, sleeps) and does better DPS, covering both sides of the equation.
Get a better shell.
Not that different from DDs in an EXP party... unless you bring PLDs to those too?

In bold. nah. we've beaten all dyna zones. double cleared a few recently. downed dl. people are human. mistakes happen in all shells. Would take a good group of people over an efficient group any day. Shell I'm in happens to be both :)

Efficient groups don't *** up pulls on a nightly basis. That's fine that you're happy where you are, but don't act like it happens to everyone. Even my old pickup group didn't fail pulls nearly that often.

I prefer DD over PLD just for the fact DD can tank most mobs a PLD can that die at a fast rate, or should be able to. Only time we use PLD in dynamis is when we're doing way low man runs where we lack the support needed for DD tanks.

In abyssea, I prefer DD tanks.. I think a PLD is kinda a waste tbh. Last abyssea shout run I joined, not one DD would voke a MOB and just stood there for 10 minutes because the pld was AFK. Complete waste of time and when I suggested a DD to voke the leader bitched at me and told me to wait for the PLD. And when I had to go afk cause someone was at the door no one would pull because "Our puller is afk."

Rly.

I'm so *** glad I don't do pickup groups often. . .

So what ? Are you implying that winning dynamis with pld is proof that pld is useful? ive done both kind of shells (pld assist and melee assist) and pld offer nothing. Absolutely nothing. It does however drain one brd and one rdm at least wasting its mp to phalanx2 and refresh. Take a non fail tank like war/nin or even /sam. It can insta claim mobs off sleeper. With sleep nerf, you can have any melee assist even without wasting time on voke, as a simple melee hit getd you hate (and it's not like a real rdm can't get smacked by pussy dynamis mobs while laughing at them for faiming at being dangerous)

Again I find myself agreeing with Pimpchan, What is this ***?!

Some people think things can only be done a certain way or it's being done wrong. Rule of thumb, just because you or your group can't do it, doesn't mean it can't be done.

Simply reading this sentence took two years off my life.

But he's got a point lol.

People unnecessarily throw paladins at everything, and a DD would normally do better.

I agree, but disagree at the same time with some of the points he makes.

Yes, a DD would do better most of the times when people throw PLDs like it's necessary.

but!

There are certain things that you would benefit from having a PLD (cba to list them but i'm sure you all get the idea) so don't entirely discredit them.

He does manage to be right from time to time... Typically just often enough that it gets a "buh? o.0" reaction if you're not prepared for it.

Personally, aside from the three situations I listed above I'd have to disagree. I'll concede that most shells don't have a good BLU tank to fill the disengaged tanking niche though.

I do agree. A PLD has it's place, but unless they either:

A) Make them take less damage STILL
or
B) Make them be able to output more damage,

I'll generally stick with a DD lol :D

I guess if the only thing you want out of a front line job is the damage output, and the amount of damage is the thing that counts, then the PLDs would be 'leeching'.

So would BLU and DNC.

But, we like the Azure light, so BLU has at least an Abyssea specific niche, and, Haste Samba is just wonderful when the party is melee heavy, plus the DNC has the option of using TP either for curing or for doing damage.

For those who don't see PLD bringing anything to the fight other than "inferior damage", I'm not sure what to say.

Personally, though, it seems a fair exchange output less damage for more safety, using one PLD to amplify MP restorative resources into more cure potential, but I'm biased toward having more than enough cures. (Heck, I like CORs who use /WHM. lol.)

Despite the tendency to shove all the curing/hasting/protect/shell to a single person in party, I don't like doing it, and I don't like making others do it. Especially not for four or more hours at a time like Abyssea exp groups tend to be.

It's not that the PLD is essential for Abyssea exp'ing, but having Cover, Shield Bash, Sentinel, and Cures as options for when some DDs' or BLMs' HP suddenly dropping precipitously is a good thing, too, in my book.

Of course, if you don't value that extra safety or whatever, and are interested only in extra damage, go ahead and make alliances without PLDs (and/or BLU and/or DNC and/or non-polearm DD when fighting birds). Feel free to invite or not invite anyone, really.

* * *

I'm not terribly in love with the idea of Joyuese + Justice for Atonement spamming. If the fights consistently last long enough for decent damage on Atonement, something is terribly wrong. Critters should die much, much faster than that.

With Joyeuse and shield (didn't bring Justice--only had three Virtue Stone pouches), I found that the better use for my TP was Vorpal Blade, after some trial and error in an Abyssea exp group.

Even with Justice replacing the shield, I don't see myself using Atonement as the main WS in that situation.

Are there certain areas in Abyssea a black mage 70 it's useful or do people prefer a black mage 75 fully merit.

level 30+ for abyssea XD

Other then the essitenals needed for the process, I don't really see what difference it makes. If the pattern is going to continue like this, like any other job this is probably going to be the only way to level at 99. Level Sync parties are becoming rarer at least my server even for something like PLD that was still considered needed in parties at that point in time.

I guess I had way too much confidences in the community to expect that an 18-person exp party was going to start turning into number crunching over meager amounts of exp.

You seem to have missed that that derail wasn't tailored to EXP, but I'll run with it.

BLU is one of the best jobs for getting azure light and is also great for building amber light. Only job I can think of that compares for amber light is COR.

DNC is never a leech in a melee party unless they suck. Haste Samba, steps, more curing power than a RDM or WHM over time, etc... Very valuable job.
So we agree.
This assumes that safety is needed though, which it isn't.
Don't understand what you're saying here.
o_O
No? RDM/WHM/SCH, DNC, and your BRD if they're /WHM. If you're averaging one healer per party, you're either undersupporting your alliance or you're killing fast enough that additional healers are unnecessary.
Shouldn't be an issue unless you only have one good DD. Granted, I've been in that situation...
You realize Joyeuse + Justice yields even more Vorpals, right? Yes, Atonement on EXP mobs is stupid. I figured we were past having to explain that.

If you're decent at timing nukes you'll be able to contribute some via killshots and such, but 75+ is generally appreciated.

It's no more valuable than a BLM or SCH when it comes to Azure light.

Let's just agree to disagree on this point. (Besides, what I said was "a fair trade", not "a necessity".)

Signal amplification means taking a small input and output larger magnitude wave, right? So, I mean turning Refresh (or Ballad or Evoker's) and Auto Refresh (small inputs) into Cure to restore HP or Flash to lessen HP loss (larger outputs).

Except when I was on SCH, more than half of the parties I was shoved into so far had one healer and no additional MP/cure support. Heck, if you read my original post carefully, you'd see that I WAS that one healer on RDM. (Well, not entirely true, since the PLD was curing himself, but he was very far from being able to keeping up his own cures.)

Given that as RDM I was running out MP often despite convert, abusing Regen, and sneaking in tick or two or rests often (with a reasonable hMP set), I'd say it wasn't working well.

(The original point was that if the PLD had use /NIN instead of /WAR, it'd have been just dandy.)

Also, I guess memories of the Lv.75 merit parties have long faded, too, for those who weren't traumatized by DD/WAR's who'd eat up 1/3 of convert MP pool in less than 15 seconds. And, the RDM is expected to keep up haste x4/x5 while keeping everyone alive regardless.

Just need one bad DD to create headaches for healers.

2010 has been a year of MP-sucking MNK/WAR meat heads for me. Think last year was the Seigan-less /SAM drooling idiots instead.


Edit: Think I mixed up different thread/forums with the Joyeuse/Justice Atonement spam thing. Maybe. *shrug* Just going to delete that portion entirely in this reply.

If your the chest *** can get in as early as lvl 30 .. bring looots of forbidden keys.

If your a decently geared DD id say 72/73.

If your a poorly geared DD never. (take your full time garuda's dagger and piss off.. you know the dd im talking about >:U)

Blm id say 68 when they get stone 4 if their skills aren't gimped.

RDM lvl 48 .. WHM lvl 40.. (For real y'all.. what spells have you seen whm/rdm do in abyssea besides cure 3/4 and haste ,haste being from like 10% of the non lazy ones)

But 75 whm has more mp you say O:!!.. hmp or pop elixers.. not like there aren't a hundred of those soothing light chests either >_>