SMN/RDM

Hey guys, since my SMN isn't 80 yet I want to ask if /RDM is better than /SCH because of Convert (and next update + refresh).
Might need a HP+ set do get a higher MP-amount/ea convert.

Thanks in advance

You also forget phlanex, SS, Fast cast, and blink from /rdm ^^;

Other then that, I would say for solo, /rdm should, overall, be better then Sch, even if it(convert) has a higher recast, it still gives you ALOT more mana for your bang, which when I was playing my smn back before stuff happened, /sch was nice for the 200 or so mana back every 3-4 mins, But if I could get 800-900 every 10mins, that'd outweigh it in burns.

i'm smn 80 and what i noticed is that as elvaan i got almost 1200mp and about 850 or 900HP...so max convert would makes me recover 800mp.
so not as powerfull as with a ballanced job (HP/MP)
+ sublimation is a great + allowing to recover mp without healing (250mp with subli and 200 to 300mp with siphon)
that makes a nice recovering every 5min.
facts to add is the weather effect /sch will deal once the lvl cap will raise allowing if AF2 pieces to have mp perp- cost whenever we want. RR is a +
that was for the scholar sub +

/rdm is nice for solo buffing but in fact u can BP almost all of the buffs, and fast cast isn't really helpfull and again no RR

From my own i've done the yama's staff almost all solo and the best sub ever was /thf: SA + spirit taker allowing 200 to 250mp recovering each 100TP and that makes the difference

that's all i got in mind for now i hope this will help with reflexion about best sub keeping in mind what's the situation

Should look into getting(or if you have already, using) gear that give a large chunk of HP. Bomb Queen Ring and Gigant Mantle are a lot of bang for the space they take up as they give a huge boost to HP. Now that /RDM is a powerful subjob(and may continue to be), be sure to look for gear that will give you the most 1:1 ratio you can out of your converts.

With BQR and Gigant Mantle, you should be at least 950 on your converts based on what you said your MP and HP are.

I wouldn't suggest converting if you'd sent carbuncle to fend off the mob 3 minutes ago and you just realized you were out of MP. It's best to plan it out, really. Getting in the 100ish range of MP? You've just summoned your new avatar and successfully pulled hate off yourself onto the avatar, now you get out of hate range, buff, convert, and cure yourself to full, all the while making sure your avatar is still alive and holding its own.

Of course there are things that can murder your avatar in less than the time it takes to be able to do all that, or even situations where you don't really have all that much room to play with. In those situations I'd say that /rdm may not be your best bet.

/Rdm has really grown on me for events though, especially in abyssea where other people hold hate just allows you to keep punching out the dmg. Another example did the old ks99 Horns of war last night and completely spanked him on dmg. converts is bit tricky unless you got someone else holding onto the hate though. Still prefer /sch for soloing though, but for events i'm finding /rdm to be a very welcome addition.

Convert is usefull as recovery between fights or during events where you can release the Avatar. casting Light Spirit => convert and it will cast curaga IV or Cure V 90% of the time. (casting regen on u beforehand will make it up to 99% :P). this method gets the most out of convert as u do not have to spend half the MP for curing urself up. Elemental Siphion afterwards and your fresh to go.^^

this is no method for getting MP back while in a solo fight. So if you hunt a NM as SMN and want to use one more PC to quicken the fight, use /SCH. as for other things /RDM is the better option, even at 80 without refresh.

I'm the type of SMN that plays far back and lets my avatar do the damage. I know many smn's prefer to stay 10 feet away from the mob and/or pull out their staff to "assist" their avatar. I prefer to stay much further away so if I convert I have SS up, Cure3, regen and I could probably chill for a bit. Toss another cure3 and I'm no longer in danger of a one shot.


There is actually a method, albeit dangerous, to get mp back while soloing. Again, I stand far away from the mob while my avatar fights. When I'm getting ready to pull out another avatar I am 45+ feet away from the mob. Instead of casting Garuda or Carby, cast your ellie. One nice thing is they cast very fast so you have time to use Siphon. Let your ellie attack the mob, run past the mob and far enough away to dismiss and recast a new avatar. If mob is too close let ellie attack it, then as you are running past the mob use siphon. Granted, you need to have decent minus avatar perp. gear.

I am interested in trying out both subs. Haven't got around to lvlin my smn to 80. My sch is still 1 lol. From what has been said seems cool on all sides. What I will say is there is a timer in using SMN buffs. Sure it's fine when u have the time, mp and a group to do it. I sub whm a lot and I can tell you castin SS on myself while my pet was fightin save my *** a bunch of times. RR is kinda the same way. Any well prepared endgame player should always have rr items with multiple charges regardless if you can cast it or not. I can't count how may times a fight was going bad and you see a mage using what little of their weakened mp left to cast rr or raise someone who died for the first time lol. Knowing when to use your spells and items is just as important in having them. Ahh yeah off topic. So ahh situational yeah lol

Here is something I have noticed... especially ppl using /rdm but do not have a high lvl one....that they are converting at odd times in strange locations.

Convert is a huge hate generator..if you add divine seal to it for a huge cure, you better warn you healer and have all the "extra" protection you can muster because the mob, as well as any links, are coming straight for you. (Dynamis Xarcabard..35+ feet from "the King", he was swamped by DDr's and he still came running after my behind)

since the lvl cap lifted I have seen:

Blm/rdm converting with 35mp less than 10 feet from a mob with a huge AOE...then wondering why they died..

Blu/rdm ...moved away more than 10 feet but had no diamond hide ( or a stoneskin-ish spell) before they converted..and was suprised at the amount of have they got..(had a damn good whm in that pt...he survived..barely)

Smn/rdm hits 0 mp and converts... not realizing 0 mp=0 health.. yeah...seriously.

For those new to /rdm....
1) convert before you get under 150 mp, even if something hits you, you have a chance of surviving if something comes after you.
2) try to convert out of Aggro range (22+feet) but remember this may not be enough in dynamis or other endgame events.
3) if you have a regen+/or refresh...use it Before you convert...if you have a whm in pt ask them...it helps.
4) Never ever convert near someone using hate to hold a mob... you will steal it... and you will be the one kiting until they get it back.

0mp to convert does not give 0hp.ie convert is wasted.needs 1 to work.unless its changed since last september when i stopped playing.

This is good theoritically, but it's really bad in long fights, just for people who don't know much about hate control, SMN generates hate for issuing BP: Rage , & for releasing when you're "within 30'" of the mob, other thing is your avatar hate DOES NOT retain from one to another.

The bad thing about Elementals is that they usually have really low accuracy so they won't get hate for ***from trying to melee , & mostly they cast either stupid low hate spells , or very long casting spells "hello AM" , the mob end up having all the hate on you, & you would get hate more by running, that's when things get really bad & the SMN die.

If you really want to use that method , use LightSpirit for chance of flash , or DarkSpirit because all the spells it casts have high hate values.

I'm not saying your method is bad, I'm just making things clear, I personally had 5/5 -elemental MP merits & used to love playing with elementals/testing, till I found out they were useless mostly except for the case u mentioned, & elemental siphon ofcourse recently.

Yeah except you can't vert with 0MP , you would get message like "Player cannot perform that action"

Verting with 150MP to spare is stupid still , imo if you're on SMN @most vert with 50MP to spare maybe & be buffed.

Do you realize how many Garudas/Carbys/Fenrirs can you cast/maintain with that much MP? with very good perp cost gear & good management of MP you can easily have 4~5 Fenrirs/Garduas & like triple carbys, IF we're talking strictly about "kite" method.

You shouldn't be in range, or have hate on you before verting , I totally agree with your points.

For OP:

For solo:

Depends on what you're soloing , if let's say you're soloing something that have relatively low HP , & can be killed within single or double mana pool with BPs rage , then /RDM is your choice , given you know how to utilize hate & vert .

If you're soloing something with relatively high HP, you think the fight would take long time, & fight is more of carby/fenrir/garuda kite, then go with /SCH , use max -perp cost gear, & don't BP much, & keep good distance, so you would maintain good hate.

For events:

If you're in event there are 2 points , if you're strictly there as source of DMG only , then /RDM would be great.

If you're playing more of support type, BP Ward , Rage , & help with -na , minimum curing between BP timers , /SCH is your best bet , & that's my favourite playstyle, since SMN is hybrid job imo.

You know what I like most about convert in parties? Healers immediately panic and cure bomb you before you can do so yourself saving you mp =D.

I really love /SCH, even refresh and convert from /RDM isn't enough to take me off /SCH :P sublimation is basically 2mp/tick refresh and can be stored before a fight, making it more tactical without the sudden loss of HP that convert does.

/SCH also gives a usable aspir, and using alacracity cuts the recast by half, i can get over 100mp back each aspir on a lot of mobs.

I totally agree with what Holyman says, /SCH still wins as a general support sub with light arts, -na spells, now has erase, accession at 80 and regen II. Whereas /RDM is nice for pure DD situations when you need those rage BPs coming constantly to keep up with other DD, although thats still doable with /SCH.

That took me about a year to get over, but I'd say that I haven't cured someone who's converting in about an equal amount of time, if not greater. XD

I wish LightSpirit would act like that 100% of the time instead of 70% of the time deciding you need haste first when you're at 20hp remaining.

As a taru, I've gotten a decent convert ratio.



I have to cure myself up from ~570 HP before each convert, but it's still a decent ratio. Lacking armors like Cassie Earring, BQ ring, Gigant Mantle for it.



edit: sorry for crappy quality, i was on my laptop ^^;

i'm a fan of /rdm especially soloing magian trials helped save a lot time when i just compelted my -5 dark perp stave.
I never rested & in between fight still have elemental siphon too.

I use smn for some events not all. all depends if its a event where mob do a lot of stuff like paralyze /whm still better for erase etc.

Has much has i was a fan of /sch, i no longer use. /rdm with ss & blink grav dispel is the better combo for most stuff.

80SMN/40SCH with addendum: white up gets accession -na spells and now has erase which can be accessioned too :3 in my opinion that makes /whm redundant except for situations when you need to teleport or need the gimpy barspells like fighting avatar primes solo

But as always its up to the players preference and which sub they work best with, i tried /RDM for a magian trial and it felt kinda wrong for me losing all the stuff /SCH gives you :/, I even have a good HP/MP ratio gear set for convert (both around 1100, but i use that gear for sublimation charging mainly.) and just thought its not as efficient/worth the effort to me as sublimation

Also, dispel and grav relies on the enfeeb skill of /RDM, so unless you have some crazy Macc+ setup you wont be landing gravity or dispel on anything around your level.

For things like that /SCH with addendum: black gets access to sleep and dispel but gives you a native B skill and with capped skill, that ability to sleep VT and maybe IT mobs has saved my *** a few times already lol and as for SS and blink, i just got used to not having them and use regen II/drain to compensate for any dmg taken.

And one MAJOR win imo for /SCH side next update is the fact you get sandstorm spell at 82, meaning you can activate the desert boots +12% move speed all the time, meaning you have heralds gaiters without the 10+mil pricetag :D

But the key thing is to use which sub you perform best with.

storm spells will also proc the relic horn effect.

Yeah so you would have a constant -3 perp head for titan while whizzing around the area in your desert boots :P I need to get myself that relic horn now more than ever so i can keep being /SCH without losing out on -perp :( except for diabolos/fenrir ramuh and carby since we wont be getting light/dark/thunder storms

You lose -1perp from feet with desert boots, I'll take my tatsumaki sitagoromo, kthx.

Its not such a huge difference between 8% and 12%, but its made me rethink of what im putting on ASA legs, if you're kiting with an avatar out could just make a macro like

/equip feet "desert boots"
/ma sandstorm <me>

I know that costs mp (30mp, or 15mp with penury) but it lasts for 3mins.

then when you're at the distance you want swap back into AF+1, although tatsu with 8% removes the need for that altogether i guess if you already have them but for me im going to use desert boots then choose siphon+20 and either MP+25 enmity -4 or pet macc+7 on tatsumaki.

Also i only recently got sea access lol so i've had to work with no -1perp feet (planning on getting the +1 items and nash hands merc'd soon D:)

I know its a little impractical stopping and spending 30MP for 3mins of +12% movement speed, but i'm thinking about just getting places faster more than kiting lol SMN never really has a need for +move speed against the majority of things we can solo since we have avatars to tank the mobs while kiting.

You lose -1perp from legs with Tatsumaki Sitagoromo, I'll take my desert boots, kthx.

Augur's Brais

You lose -3 perpetuation cost using Tatsumaki Sitagoromo, actually. -3 from head, +1 from losing AF+1 feet, then another -1 from Augur's Brais.

Edit: AND you gain +4% movement speed. Not going to make or break anything but your choices are 8% movement speed and -1 perpetuation cost, or 12% movement speed and -3 perpetuation cost. No matter how you look at it, Tatsumaki Sitagoromo are inferior.