Tornado Kick Damage! Did Monk Finally Get An Epic Ws?

dont have much STP Rajas, Brutal, never done Salvage so no Usu Feet, Black Belt etc.. http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/71931 here, also i used the Moogle hat for the Spartan Helm MNK wasnt high on my list when i got it

Hi :x

Ive been following this thread abit and i was mnk before i left for break. But then came back, and was forced to lvl brd to help the ls with raid and stuff. But im a mnk at heart!
So i was wondering if u guys could help me with my setup

this is my WS with footwork:
http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/168858

this is my TP setup with footwork:
http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/168857

I tried doing good dmg but not very succesful, best i did was like 850ish on demons in Dynamis-Xarc and like 1.4k on lesser colibri outside WG.

PS: i know my fenrir should be replaced asap and that im a disgrace to mnk for using that, but waiting my turn for thew bomblet. I can maybe replace aesir earring with bushi for +2 str. but not sure which is best.

Thnx for any help in advance ^^

Somebody else can step in and correct me if my suggestions are off base, but off the top of my head Genbu's Kabuto, Snow/Thunder/Breeze Gorget, Warwolf Belt, and something different for your hands (Alkys, maybe Enkidu's if your acc is suffering) on WS, and Cobra Harness, Ecphoria Ring (these give you a 5/7-hit), and rearranging your haste options (you're 2% over cap) for TP. There's a variety of ways to hit 24-25% with Poise Shoes; use what you have available to you. Work towards a set of OA2-3 magian H2H for use when Footwork is up, as they'll vastly improve the output of your build (not the best choice for Footwork down though).

forgot to mention im working on the OAC 2-3 magian trial :x
But if i properly understand, ure saying theres something better than the magian OAC 2-3? If so, id like to know. Im not very "intune" with mnk, been mainly playing brd >.<

For Footwork up, OA2-3 are best. If it's down for some reason (paralyzed, dispeled, JA lock in Salvage/not enough equip unlocked to make it worthwhile), you'd be better off with a different weapon such as the STR/attack Taipan Fangs.

His main problem is that he doesn't have 7-hit build with footwork ...

yea im currently working on my attack 2-3 times magian weapon. so does store tp still matter? and i thought haste > everything else?

Store TP begins to matter when your WS damage can substantially outweigh your DoT damage, so it becomes more beneficial to shave off an extra hit or two to reach 100% faster. In these cases, sometimes it is beneficial to lose a small amount of haste in favor of Store TP, but I don't think you have to sacrifice any haste to get Store TP on monk.

I hadn't thought about this until that question was posed... for someone with one of these Occ2/3 weapons, what % of your damage is melee hits and what % comes from WS? I think MNK used to be a ~60/40 (70/30?) split in favor of melee DoT. I haven't been following this thread to see just how strong Tornado Kick really is, but the title seems to indicate that it is strong).

You don't have to give up any haste for an x-hit Footwork build. The Cobra Harness/Ecphoria Ring combination I mentioned is all you need.

What I've been hearing is that 100 TP Tornado Kicks aren't too dissimilar from Asuran Fists with a comparable build, but the increased WS frequency and strong DoT between WS boost your damage.

So you need 14 Store TP to shave a hit off with footwork? How would you suggest doing that for people that use a Faith Torque instead of a Chiv Chain? I don't really want to buy a White Tathlum :/ (I'm excluding Brisk Mask because as far as I've heard, it hasn't even been found)

Also, does anyone know how the Occ.Atk.# works in conjunction with Double Attack (meaning, are they somehow cumulative or is one calculated before the other)? If the Occ.Atk.X is checked before any Double Attack bonuses, the Brutal Earring starts to look pretty lackluster since it would only add +1.5% double attack (5% of 30%) if you don't need the Store TP.

Rajas/Brutal/Cobra Harness/Ecphoria is the easiest way to go about it. OA# and DA are calculated separately, so Brutal is indeed a weak option in this case but as I mentioned, it's part of the easiest approach.

Oh, so you just need 13 Store TP? Whew, awesome! The guy who you were giving pointers to was using a Chiv Chain, so the Ecphoria wouldn't be necessary for him, but I will certainly be switching over; thanks!

You only need 10 store tp in theory since 13*1.10=14.3 and 14.3*7=100.1 however this implies that you also use high store TP during WS.

The simplest build is

* 6 store tp on body (usukane body or campaign body) and rajas for melee (don't need brutal and it's worse than an attack earring with OAT 2-3 ursine claws anyway) for a total of 11 store TP
* 6 store TP on TK with rajas and brutal (rajas is best for TK)

This is not a true 7-hit build but works the same because the chance of missing the 2 additional hits and the 2 extra than can proc from double attacked TK is marginal (and quantified). For reference on that, you can check the level 80 wpn thread on alla, and look at the spreadsheet from kinematic (here).

This "false" 7-hit gives 3.3456 rounds per ws on average while a "true" 7 hits built would give 3.32. By comparison a 8 hits built would average 3.859 rounds per ws.

So in essence rajas and campaign body only are needed.

Yeah I know, I overlooked a few minor details. But the overall intent is good. And with just those stats its a pretty impressive standup.

I do however have a question in relation to this STP topic.

Now I read the math on alla for the prox rate on the 2-3x h2h, which if I read right(which I probably didn't seeing as how I skimmed near the middle or end). Is ~70% (on double rounds when using footwork) and I do realize that that is speculation at this point based on prior knowledge of other multihit weapons.

So when you sub war and lets say you have double att gear +10% you have a total of DA+20%
add your prox rate of ~70% and you are at a 90% double hit rate which is basically a 4-5 hit build since base footwork return is 13% TP and 26x4 = 104?

Or are we completely trying to null and void any extra hits on our way to 100 TP? Because I doubt its possible to beat a 4 hit.

But beaming back to multi hit weapons proxing with kick attacks. Would it just be better to use kraken club with footwork? Or has it already been tested and failed?

Anyone have any info on that?

"
So when you sub war and lets say you have double att gear +10% you have a total of DA+20%
add your prox rate of ~70% and you are at a 90% double hit rate "

doesn't work like that.

DA and occ attack x number of times are not the same stat, so you can't add them like that.

Let's say we have 50% OAT rate just as a sample and 20% double attack.

These two cannot proc on the same attack round.

We have 100 attack rounds, 50% of the time will will OAT. So, double attack only has a chance to proc on the 50% of the rounds OAT does not, so in this case, the double attack would be essentially halved, since it only even has the opportunity to proc half as much.

To clarify on the Store TP issue, and particularly what you need for a 'true' 7-hit (ie: not needing any 1 TP hits to land):

If you TP in 11 Store TP (body + Rajas), you need 8 Store TP on weaponskill (Rajas + Brutal + Ecphoria + Chiv Chain).
If you TP in 12 Store TP (body + Rajas + Ecphoria or Brutal or Chiv Chain), you need 7 Store TP on weaponskill (Rajas + Brutal + Ecphoria)
If you TP in 13 Store TP (brody + Rajas + Ecphoria + Chiv Chain or Brutal), you need 4 Store TP on weaponskill (Rajas)

The latter two are better options, as they free up the neck slot for a gorget. Given the fact that Brutal isn't terribly useful during TP phase, I'd go for body + Rajas + Ecphoria (or Chiv Chain if you use that). That allows Rajas + Brutal + Ecphoria to be sufficient for during weaponskill, and you're going to want Rajas + Brutal anyway.

True 7-hits means nothing though. The only thing that matters is the average number of rounds per WS. For exemple in your first exemple, using ecphoria will lead to a worse setup than torreador if you need acc or a mere STR ring if not.

"fasle-7 hit" to true "7-hit" is less than 1% weaspon skill frequency so much less overall.

My fault, I missed your most recent post when skimming the thread and seeing so much confusion on the Store TP issue.

The accuracy comment is mostly correct. 12 STP during melee + 4 acc vs 11 STP during melee and + 7 acc (where all 3 points of accuracy matter) would be 3.296 avg rounds per weaponskill vs 3.273, a 0.7% improvement (and stays close to 0.7% regardless of variations in exact DA rate). If comparing vs a standard sniper (+5 acc, far more likely for most people), though, the Ecphoria wins by 0.25%, and if 6 accuracy caps you it's ahead by a similar 0.25%.

And you also lose about 1/4 of that (relative) gain because average number of rounds per weaponskill is not 1:1 with average damage over time. However once you've capped accuracy and don't need the acc on the ring anymore (eg: during Focus), it is certainly better to not be tied to the Store TP on it for gearing decisions.

So I'll yield on the suggestion here. If you have a +5 acc ring that you're comparing against, Ecphoria is essentially tied with it, and you gain nothing in particular by swapping out. Technically the +1 of the Brutal (taking you to +6) doesn't change anything, but the Brutal itself brings enough benefit that you'd want to use it anyway.

Things get a little trickier as accuracy drops (particularly weaponskill accuracy), where the Store TP can completely compensate for the change in accuracy in terms of average rounds per weaponskill, but the weaponskill damage itself suffers slightly as well, so you might as well just stay with the accuracy option there.

Cancel don't work, wake up^^ :D

Cancel<3

In B4 "you dont have mnk on that account".

What do you normally tp in instead? JW