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Am i doin it wrong ? lol
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By Valefor.Slipispsycho 2010-05-30 23:16:17
Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Valefor.Slipispsycho said: Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Sylph.Kimble said: Thats because your rdm doesnt use cure :P A RDM cannot keep up with all their other duties and act as a primary healer in most situations where a DNC is present. This is assuming you even have a dedicated RDM... If your RDM can take up the slack, either they're doing it wrong or your DDs are. If you don't have a RDM, I'd be very surprised if you're not waltzing at recast.
EDIT: Also what Niniann said.
K, now I'm confused what you're talking about.. I always end up main healing on RDM in merit parties. Even when we do have DNC, I'm still the one responsible for keeping everyone alive... I'd like to say I do a pretty damn good job of it too, considering my healing magic is still gimped, and the only merits I have that benefit RDM so far are Convert Timer (1), Enfeebling Magic (1, but also doesn't get used in merit pt) and MP (1, I wouldn't have chosen this merit, and if/when it comes time I need to replace it, it will be done, this merit was chosen when someone else was using my account, I might would have understood it if I were Elvaan, or Galka, but I'm a Taru..) Are you hasting everyone? Casting Dia II (or III) on every mob? Are all DDs using Hasso?
Okay that may be why, I do try to keep up with haste (it may drop at times, if MP is getting low and no convert up, I have to sacrafice Haste in lieu of survival) But no Dia ever (the mobs honestly drop to fast to really worry with it, and yes they are using Hasso.
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2010-05-30 23:16:26
Leviathan.Niniann said: Valefor.Slipispsycho said: Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Sylph.Kimble said: Thats because your rdm doesnt use cure :P A RDM cannot keep up with all their other duties and act as a primary healer in most situations where a DNC is present. This is assuming you even have a dedicated RDM... If your RDM can take up the slack, either they're doing it wrong or your DDs are. If you don't have a RDM, I'd be very surprised if you're not waltzing at recast.
EDIT: Also what Niniann said.
K, now I'm confused what you're talking about.. I always end up main healing on RDM in merit parties. Even when we do have DNC, I'm still the one responsible for keeping everyone alive... I'd like to say I do a pretty damn good job of it too, considering my healing magic is still gimped, and the only merits I have that benefit RDM so far are Convert Timer (1), Enfeebling Magic (1, but also doesn't get used in merit pt) and MP (1, I wouldn't have chosen this merit, and if/when it comes time I need to replace it, it will be done, this merit was chosen when someone else was using my account, I might would have understood it if I were Elvaan, or Galka, but I'm a Taru..)
If you're in a party with a DNC (at least on merit level) they should be healing, or at least taking up the majority of the healing duties. You should be Dia II(III)ing every mob, hasting everyone (including the DNC) and Erasing ATT down (if you're pulling wivres), and cleaning up cures where the DNC can't. You shouldn't be 'main' heal, though.
Edit: @Ent With a DNC DDs should be subbing not-nin and using full-out offensive JAs. Anything she says on dnc related stuff is true
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2010-05-30 23:17:32
Valefor.Slipispsycho said: Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Valefor.Slipispsycho said: Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Sylph.Kimble said: Thats because your rdm doesnt use cure :P A RDM cannot keep up with all their other duties and act as a primary healer in most situations where a DNC is present. This is assuming you even have a dedicated RDM... If your RDM can take up the slack, either they're doing it wrong or your DDs are. If you don't have a RDM, I'd be very surprised if you're not waltzing at recast.
EDIT: Also what Niniann said.
K, now I'm confused what you're talking about.. I always end up main healing on RDM in merit parties. Even when we do have DNC, I'm still the one responsible for keeping everyone alive... I'd like to say I do a pretty damn good job of it too, considering my healing magic is still gimped, and the only merits I have that benefit RDM so far are Convert Timer (1), Enfeebling Magic (1, but also doesn't get used in merit pt) and MP (1, I wouldn't have chosen this merit, and if/when it comes time I need to replace it, it will be done, this merit was chosen when someone else was using my account, I might would have understood it if I were Elvaan, or Galka, but I'm a Taru..) Are you hasting everyone? Casting Dia II (or III) on every mob? Are all DDs using Hasso?
Okay that may be why, I do try to keep up with haste (it may drop at times, if MP is getting low and no convert up, I have to sacrafice Haste in lieu of survival) But no Dia ever (the mobs honestly drop to fast to really worry with it, and yes they are using Hasso. Yea, dropped haste and non dia = *** that noise son
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By Fenrir.Mtmoogle 2010-05-30 23:18:00
Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Siren.Enternius said: Didn't really read the whole thread, but why should a DNC have to be healing in a party with a RDM? RDM can do it just fine with 3 SAM, BRD, COR, RDM. What's the difference if they switch out a SAM for a DNC? Thorny did some math a while back that showed that there's basically no way a RDM can cure, haste, Erase (if necessary), and Dia every mob in a Hasso onry meripo. DNC picks up the slack. I will die b/c rdm ran out of mp if i full timed hasso drg/sam on brds XD
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-05-30 23:18:23
Valefor.Slipispsycho said: Okay that may be why, I do try to keep up with haste (it may drop at times, if MP is getting low and no convert up, I have to sacrafice Haste in lieu of survival) But no Dia ever (the mobs honestly drop to fast to really worry with it, and yes they are using Hasso. Pull Wivre.
Sylph.Liltrouble said: Sylph.Kimble said: Guys take ***way to seriously, lol. Taking Dnc to Dyna, einherjar (Tier II, Tier III, or Odin's chamber) is NOT taking anything seriously, I can assure you lolwut
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By Valefor.Slipispsycho 2010-05-30 23:18:40
Leviathan.Niniann said: Valefor.Slipispsycho said: Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Sylph.Kimble said: Thats because your rdm doesnt use cure :P A RDM cannot keep up with all their other duties and act as a primary healer in most situations where a DNC is present. This is assuming you even have a dedicated RDM... If your RDM can take up the slack, either they're doing it wrong or your DDs are. If you don't have a RDM, I'd be very surprised if you're not waltzing at recast.
EDIT: Also what Niniann said.
K, now I'm confused what you're talking about.. I always end up main healing on RDM in merit parties. Even when we do have DNC, I'm still the one responsible for keeping everyone alive... I'd like to say I do a pretty damn good job of it too, considering my healing magic is still gimped, and the only merits I have that benefit RDM so far are Convert Timer (1), Enfeebling Magic (1, but also doesn't get used in merit pt) and MP (1, I wouldn't have chosen this merit, and if/when it comes time I need to replace it, it will be done, this merit was chosen when someone else was using my account, I might would have understood it if I were Elvaan, or Galka, but I'm a Taru..)
If you're in a party with a DNC (at least on merit level) they should be healing, or at least taking up the majority of the healing duties. You should be Dia II(III)ing every mob, hasting everyone (including the DNC) and Erasing ATT down (if you're pulling wivres), and cleaning up cures where the DNC can't. You shouldn't be 'main' heal, though.
Edit: @Ent With a DNC DDs should be subbing not-nin and using full-out offensive JAs.
They don't =/ The last DNC in a merit PT I was in, had 5/5 in NFR, they only ever threw off a Waltz when my MP was completely dead AND someone was in red (not orange, just red)
The ones before that, no merits that I can absolutely remember, but none of them healed.
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-05-30 23:18:48
Fenrir.Mtmoogle said: Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Siren.Enternius said: Didn't really read the whole thread, but why should a DNC have to be healing in a party with a RDM? RDM can do it just fine with 3 SAM, BRD, COR, RDM. What's the difference if they switch out a SAM for a DNC? Thorny did some math a while back that showed that there's basically no way a RDM can cure, haste, Erase (if necessary), and Dia every mob in a Hasso onry meripo. DNC picks up the slack. I will die b/c rdm ran out of mp if i full timed hasso drg/sam on brds XD Exactly!
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By Fenrir.Mtmoogle 2010-05-30 23:20:41
if i dont like rdm i super jump and he gets all the hate mwuahahahahaha!
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By Valefor.Slipispsycho 2010-05-30 23:20:59
Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Valefor.Slipispsycho said: Okay that may be why, I do try to keep up with haste (it may drop at times, if MP is getting low and no convert up, I have to sacrafice Haste in lieu of survival) But no Dia ever (the mobs honestly drop to fast to really worry with it, and yes they are using Hasso. Pull Wivre.
Sylph.Liltrouble said: Sylph.Kimble said: Guys take ***way to seriously, lol. Taking Dnc to Dyna, einherjar (Tier II, Tier III, or Odin's chamber) is NOT taking anything seriously, I can assure you lolwut We were, it was at Mamool Ja Staging point, not bird camp, and that is one the times the SAMs managed to get 1-shotted X.X
Maybe it's my fault, I've accepted main healing, and everyone else seems to be DD/Tank only with no sympathy for mages or the struggle for MP.. They keep going, I keep struggling to keep up, we broke 100 chain though, so I'd say I did pretty good.
Leviathan.Niniann
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By Leviathan.Niniann 2010-05-30 23:21:53
Valefor.Slipispsycho said: Leviathan.Niniann said: Valefor.Slipispsycho said: Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Sylph.Kimble said: Thats because your rdm doesnt use cure :P A RDM cannot keep up with all their other duties and act as a primary healer in most situations where a DNC is present. This is assuming you even have a dedicated RDM... If your RDM can take up the slack, either they're doing it wrong or your DDs are. If you don't have a RDM, I'd be very surprised if you're not waltzing at recast.
EDIT: Also what Niniann said.
K, now I'm confused what you're talking about.. I always end up main healing on RDM in merit parties. Even when we do have DNC, I'm still the one responsible for keeping everyone alive... I'd like to say I do a pretty damn good job of it too, considering my healing magic is still gimped, and the only merits I have that benefit RDM so far are Convert Timer (1), Enfeebling Magic (1, but also doesn't get used in merit pt) and MP (1, I wouldn't have chosen this merit, and if/when it comes time I need to replace it, it will be done, this merit was chosen when someone else was using my account, I might would have understood it if I were Elvaan, or Galka, but I'm a Taru..)
If you're in a party with a DNC (at least on merit level) they should be healing, or at least taking up the majority of the healing duties. You should be Dia II(III)ing every mob, hasting everyone (including the DNC) and Erasing ATT down (if you're pulling wivres), and cleaning up cures where the DNC can't. You shouldn't be 'main' heal, though.
Edit: @Ent With a DNC DDs should be subbing not-nin and using full-out offensive JAs.
They don't =/ The last DNC in a merit PT I was in, had 5/5 in NFR, they only ever threw off a Waltz when my MP was completely dead AND someone was in red (not orange, just red)
The ones before that, no merits that I can absolutely remember, but none of them healed.
I don't know what to say. I apologize for my fellow DNCs. :/
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By Valefor.Slipispsycho 2010-05-30 23:24:59
To tell you the truth, I've never seen a DNC main heal, so until now I didn't even know they were supposed to.. I am a DNC, and I'd consider it my main, I spend all my time on DNC, unless I have to change for something (such as BCNM/KSNM/Dyna/Merit(I get pt invites easily, which is a plus to me since I don't have to wait around all day for invite) But I only Solo/Duo (with a friend, the same friend, not just like random people from LS)
I only know what DNC is capable of through experience, and all my experience on DNC is not party orientated..
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By Fenrir.Mtmoogle 2010-05-30 23:25:29
Valefor.Slipispsycho said: Leviathan.Niniann said: Valefor.Slipispsycho said: Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Sylph.Kimble said: Thats because your rdm doesnt use cure :P A RDM cannot keep up with all their other duties and act as a primary healer in most situations where a DNC is present. This is assuming you even have a dedicated RDM... If your RDM can take up the slack, either they're doing it wrong or your DDs are. If you don't have a RDM, I'd be very surprised if you're not waltzing at recast. EDIT: Also what Niniann said. K, now I'm confused what you're talking about.. I always end up main healing on RDM in merit parties. Even when we do have DNC, I'm still the one responsible for keeping everyone alive... I'd like to say I do a pretty damn good job of it too, considering my healing magic is still gimped, and the only merits I have that benefit RDM so far are Convert Timer (1), Enfeebling Magic (1, but also doesn't get used in merit pt) and MP (1, I wouldn't have chosen this merit, and if/when it comes time I need to replace it, it will be done, this merit was chosen when someone else was using my account, I might would have understood it if I were Elvaan, or Galka, but I'm a Taru..) If you're in a party with a DNC (at least on merit level) they should be healing, or at least taking up the majority of the healing duties. You should be Dia II(III)ing every mob, hasting everyone (including the DNC) and Erasing ATT down (if you're pulling wivres), and cleaning up cures where the DNC can't. You shouldn't be 'main' heal, though. Edit: @Ent With a DNC DDs should be subbing not-nin and using full-out offensive JAs. They don't =/ The last DNC in a merit PT I was in, had 5/5 in NFR, they only ever threw off a Waltz when my MP was completely dead AND someone was in red (not orange, just red) The ones before that, no merits that I can absolutely remember, but none of them healed. If im in a pty on dnc my goal is to make the mage bored :D
I made this one sch leave b/c he had nothing to do and b/c he cant haste lol
[+]
Leviathan.Niniann
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By Leviathan.Niniann 2010-05-30 23:31:05
Valefor.Slipispsycho said: To tell you the truth, I've never seen a DNC main heal, so until now I didn't even know they were supposed to.. I am a DNC, and I'd consider it my main, I spend all my time on DNC, unless I have to change for something (such as BCNM/KSNM/Dyna/Merit(I get pt invites easily, which is a plus to me since I don't have to wait around all day for invite) But I only Solo/Duo (with a friend, the same friend, not just like random people from LS)
I only know what DNC is capable of through experience, and all my experience on DNC is not party orientated..
I'm not saying a DNC can't put out decent numbers so much as the job was made to heal, and we can heal waaaaaaayyyy better than any mage in situations that we can poke things. We can heal absurd amounts, quickly, and we can keep doing it. We have a nearly infinite 'mp' pool, our only downside is we can't erase for crap. Keeping up the 'infinite' mp pool in situations where there's tons of dying requires lots of concentration, spamming steps/RF at timer, spamming cures at timer and occasionally throwing out a stun if you think the person with hate might just die before your cure timers are up.
Sylph.Kozuki
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By Sylph.Kozuki 2010-05-30 23:31:19
SCH + DNC is a really bad combo.
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By Lakshmi.Priestsan 2010-05-30 23:32:21
Fenrir.Mtmoogle said: If im in a pty on dnc my goal is to make the mage bored :D
I made this one sch leave b/c he had nothing to do and b/c he cant haste lol
^ this.
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By Sylph.Liltrouble 2010-05-30 23:43:56
Sylph.Kozuki said: SCH DNC is a really bad combo. I always found that Dnc+anything in any xp or meripo is a bad combo. I'm sorry, I just don't know how Dnc can replace any primary job and have yet to be shown otherwise. Dnc was made for solo or duo imo
Sylph.Kimble
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By Sylph.Kimble 2010-05-30 23:44:34
Cause Haste sucks.
Sylph.Kozuki
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By Sylph.Kozuki 2010-05-30 23:46:33
I don't like hundred daggering mobs with saber dance + samba/marchx2/haste!
Fenrir.Vazerus
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By Fenrir.Vazerus 2010-05-30 23:47:58
Sylph.Kimble said: Cause Haste sucks. Agreed; Who would want moar Haste, srsly? lolol
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By Sylph.Liltrouble 2010-05-30 23:49:16
Fenrir.Vazerus said: Sylph.Kimble said: Cause Haste sucks. Agreed; Who would want moar Haste, srsly? lolol I know, right?
Sylph.Kimble
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By Sylph.Kimble 2010-05-30 23:52:14
Sylph.Liltrouble said: Fenrir.Vazerus said: Sylph.Kimble said: Cause Haste sucks. Agreed; Who would want moar Haste, srsly? lolol I know, right?
Not sure if you are trying to whoosh me or not but you are aware DNC gives 10% haste right?
[+]
Sylph.Kozuki
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By Sylph.Kozuki 2010-05-30 23:57:11
nvm
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By Valefor.Slipispsycho 2010-05-30 23:58:09
Think it's too late for that..
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By Fenrir.Mtmoogle 2010-05-31 00:03:17
Dude haste owns what are u guys talking about >.>
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-05-31 00:04:31
Sylph.Liltrouble said: Sylph.Kozuki said: SCH DNC is a really bad combo. I always found that Dnc anything in any xp or meripo is a bad combo. I'm sorry, I just don't know how Dnc can replace any primary job and have yet to be shown otherwise. Dnc was made for solo or duo imo Terrible DNCs may fit this, but a good DNC with Haste Samba merits, fast engage times + quick debuffing, etc more than outweighs the loss of a heavy DD in the party hands down.
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By Fenrir.Mtmoogle 2010-05-31 00:09:53
Yes, i know where u guys were going w/ the haste thing, for those.. well you know.
Im out, peace
And Night tarutarus get dibs on all gear in my ls, you can lot after we satisfied :P
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By Siren.Enternius 2010-05-31 00:19:15
Sylph.Liltrouble said: Sylph.Kozuki said: SCH DNC is a really bad combo. I always found that Dnc anything in any xp or meripo is a bad combo. I'm sorry, I just don't know how Dnc can replace any primary job and have yet to be shown otherwise. Dnc was made for solo or duo imo Going to give a very straightforward honest nonbiased answer here.
Assuming you have 3 SAMs, a BRD, a COR, and a RDM, I believe it's fair to say the 3 SAMs combined will parse about 90% of the total damage, with the COR doing about the last 10%, assuming he's just rolling and shooting and not forced to pull. If we were to drop one SAM, then we'd be losing about a third of our total damage. Seems rather large.
Now let's assume all SAMs have perfect Haste. Walahra Turban, Dusk Gloves+1, Velocious Belt, Byakko's Haidate, Fuma Sune-Ate. 23% Haste. Hasso, Haste Spell, double March.
That's a combined 68% Haste. Based on a 480 delay weapon, that's 480*.32= 154 delay.
Now we'll add 10% Haste from a DNC's Haste Samba. 480*.22= 106 delay.
Do the math, that's a 45% increase of damage for your two remaining SAMs. Assuming your DNC does not melee at all or hits for 0s everytime, that alone makes up 90% of the lost SAM. Even more if your COR is meleeing.
Now if we were to add in a DNC's damage, I'd imagine it to be quite a bit more than the COR's damage, so we'll go ahead and give it twice what the COR was parsing for. Now the DDs rank 35%/35%/20%/10%, SAM/SAM/DNC/COR. Taken as an independent ratio just based on how much damage the DNC added, it would be about 45%, give or take. That's compared to the third SAM's original 30%.
tl;dr version, SAM/SAM/DNC/COR/BRD/RDM is about 15% more effective as SAM/SAM/SAM/COR/BRD/RDM, and dropping one SAM and picking up a DNC will cause that 6th slot to increase 1.5-fold.
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By Sylph.Liltrouble 2010-05-31 00:55:43
totally biased, imo. I don't know that Dnc can out-parce a cor, or anything for that matter.
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-05-31 01:14:23
Sylph.Liltrouble said: totally biased, imo. I don't know that Dnc can out-parce a cor, or anything for that matter. Irrelevant.
Here's how it breaks down. In the above situation, Haste Samba alone gets you 90% (really 90.9%) of the repped SAM. If your COR is meleeing (they better be), gap is closed and exceeded. If it's not, Box Step will help close the gap.
From here, you look at the utility DNC brings to the table. I won't bother quoting the WoT where it was worked out, but a RDM cannot solo heal, haste, and dia every mob with fulltime Hasso DDs. There's simply not enough MP to go around. DNC fills the gap and allows RDM to focus on haste and dia plus providing supplemental cures. Enabling fulltime Hasso more than exceeds the last 10% of that third SAM. This is before we even consider the DNC's loldamage... chances are they won't be able to WS in this situation but they still contribute some damage, possibly even 10% of a SAMs.
DNC > 3rd SAM, end of story. Only caveat is they have to be smart, quick to engage, and apply debuffs immediately.
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By Sylph.Liltrouble 2010-05-31 01:27:09
ok, but who would have three sams in their party to begin with? much less 2. I mean, comeon. Is it because everyone has one?
So Dnc has long been my most favorite job in FFXI, and ive neglected it for too long. Have taken 5 jobs 1-75 and done a few subjobs since i got it to 75 and honestly i kinda stopped playin it when it hit 75 other than for campaign. So what i wanna know is how does my dnc gear look to you, my fellow dancers ?
Merits (dnc spec) 5/5 haste samba, 3/5 reverse flourish
3/5 No foot rise, 1 saber, 1 fan dance
(im currently working on capping no foot rise and reverse)
Acc gear:
Azoth, joyeuse, af weapon
O.hat, PCC, Brutal, suppa
SH, cobra, Raja's, Sniper
Cuch, Virtuoso, AF+1, cobra
Haste gear: (needs a lil work)
Azoth, Joy, AF
Turban, Pcc, brutal, suppa
rappare, dusk, raja, sniper
Cuch, headlong(need swift), AF+1(until etoile), dusk
Evasion:
Azoth, joy, AF
O.hat, evasion torque, Brutal, velocity
SH, Etoile, raja, sniper
Corse cape, Virtuoso(till i get scouters), Crow, AF
i do know that gear isnt everything, most of what dnc does is more based on skill. I dont claim to be the best, but i do think im doin pretty well, anything my fellow dancers have to offer in the form of advice, tips, or even flames cause i suck... i dont care, bring it on, i can take it. =) thanks guys.
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