Woodville Vs Maneater

Ok folks, I have been trying to do some controlled tests on two weapons, the Maneater and Woodville axe for a comparison...in all circumstances I offhanded a Juggernaut.

Here is my conclusions. I know I am going to be trolled for this but this is just what I personally have experienced and if there is a way to improve things, I am all ears.

Maneater as we all know has it’s +16 to 18 att and base dam 49 under 100 tp and because of that, it out damages Woodville under 100 tp everytime. However, after 25 rampages at 250+ tp with each axe, I have to say that overall it appears Woodville wins. I have gotten several 4 digit rampages with Woodville but have not gotten one…that’s right…none with maneater.

So what’s the deal? Maneater is supposed to be such an awesome tool but I think it is basically a little less than Woodville overall…I suppose it’s what you are looking for in a weapon. I do not have a parser but I would love to get one. Can someone tell me where to find one? I am somewhat new to this side of the game (parsing, ws damage studies, etc) but I am trying to learn and improve myself overall. please let me know your experiences and how I might do better.

You all know I am basically new at the DD side of bst. I soloed up as /whm so I am just trying to fig out how to be better as a DD and what I can do better with what I have access to. I got the message on my tp/ ws gear and I am working on that but now I am trying to figure out which is a better mainhand weapon and quite frankly I am confused. I appreciate that I am going to need a temperance axe offhand and get rid of Juggernaut but that time is not here yet.

Thank you all for your input and suggestions.

What were you testing on? Attack and Accuracy do not do much against weaker adversaries.

I don't use WAR very often, when I do, I'm usually using GA, but I DO have axes, Woodville's/Maneater. Due to the rarity of me using them, I never felt the need to get a Juggernaut. But that's me.

Yes, Woodville's Axe will virtually always pull better Rampage numbers, that much is obvious. But, the fact that Maneater gives a +5 Accuracy boost, as well as higher delay, means that you'll do better DoT (Damage from melee swings and not WSs), as well as more frequent WSs, since you'll get TP move often.

The reason Woodville's Axe will always be better is simply because a boost of 1 DMG equates to +4 STR, give or take depending on what you're fighting. So overall Woodville's Axe adds roughly 8 STR, which everyone knows will add a lot to any WS, let alone one modded so highly by STR.

Edit: Another thing, the more Attack you have, the less improvement you get by adding individual bonuses of Attack. The fact you offhand Juggernaut makes the Attack on Maneater next to useless.

Well at 75 woodville will have about 3 more base dmg on ws. Since you are using one handed axes depending on gearing and such your base dmg should be around 100 so that's 3%ish more dmg from just that.

Also yeah what Raen said. Even something not that weak you can cap Ratio on with food beserk. Even merit mobs if you def down them some

And what about sample size? Could be just didn't proc as much crits or something

Wood/Man (Best WS damage the higher base DMG beats out Juggy Easy again)

Man/IronRam (Best DoT Factored in with Weaponskills beats Juggy easy..)

Man/Temp.(Awsome multi attacking weapon for BST) Good for Primal Rend Spam?

Juggy is just a huge waste of gil. Sell it and keep a Maneater/Woods/IR Pick since BST can't use GAXE :D

I don't agree that Wood's base DMG is going to beat out Juggy there in your first setup.

Man/Temp is the best combination for most stuff though. Wood/Man failing that.

I have been testing in campaign, specifically against No-Mho's guards...yes i tried to be very anal and only count ws's against the same type of mobs. I realize there is alot of variable's...did they shell guard, did they diamond shell...but that being said... that is the target mob...generally in Grauberg.

And yes I noticed that. The wiki says that maneater is +18 att. However, when I switch from woodville to maneater at 0 tp, I only see a +16 att change...I suppose that is because of +4 str on woodville.

I think woodville shines because it's base damage is 50 and maneater is 49 under 100 tp and 46 over 100 tp...erm....that is a guess by the way.

There are also the trial axes. Max dmg one is 53, the OAT one is 46, then there is a 49 dmg one that gives you 4 str and 12 attack to either you or your pet depending on which path you go down. The def down one is 50 dmg

Wont matter as it works on ws. The 4 str however is being counted twice on ws. Once for fstr and once as a ws mod. That 4 str pretty much adds another 2 to base dmg. And 2 to attack always of course

Ah, Campaign is not a good judge because the stuff there is on the whole incredibly weak unless we're talking bosses.

EDIT: To give you an idea, if they were anything other than puny, you wouldn't get all of the melee mages who just melee with whatever mage gear they're wearing etc.

Lol...I didn't realize how dumb I was about game mathmatics and strategy...that being said...should I continue this study or can you guys just tell me from your experience which is better...I am confused because I see advantages to both weapons mainhand. I carry all three at the moment cause when i fighting a mob that strips tp, i use maneater, if not, i use woodville and hopefully smash into it with a 4 digit rampage...

Yeah...I suck...I know

On anything with weak *** mobs like Campaign and such, it doesn't really matter. On anything worthwhile, Man/Jugg > Woods/Man > etc. Haven't really looked at Magian axes.

That and there stats even on the same type in same zone vary a decent amount. Didn't really notice it till I started playing with magic hammer alot and would get the exact same numbers over and over again and back calculate the mnd to 1 number then do it again on same mob type from the same way and calculate like I think the biggest I got was 17 mnd difference for the same mob type before I gave up lol. Well throwing out and resist or day effects of course

Again, please forgive my ignorance and general stupidity. But...I have seen in this thread and a few others across the site knocking down the Juggernaut. I dont understand. It gives +3 str and +30 att...

What am I missing here? I can't think of any other gear in the game that gives +30 att...is that not important? Is speed and overal tp gain more important than base attack numbers?...seriously, I am asking, not being a smart ***...

Oh, we know you're not being a smartass :p don't worry, we get plenty of them here so we know the difference.

It's not that Juggernaut is bad... Axes as a whole are just really good. It's not Juggernaut being bad, it's just that Maneater/Temperance in particular are REALLY good. Juggernaut is roughly on par with Iron Ram Pick depending on your level of Attack buffs and Woodville's is about on par with that. A much lower price tag on both of those alternatives though!

EDIT: If you want a generalisation, and bear in mind this is a blanket statement: Attack is more important than Base DMG to 2handers and vice versa. There are limits on this of course, but the 4D difference between Juggernaut and Woodville is roughly the same as the 30 Attack difference in most setups (except on WS, where the 30 Attack difference wins a bit - assuming the Attack is doing something which it won't be on the mobs you were testing on reliably).

4D wouldn't beat 30 Attack on DRG, say - but it would on THF or something. This is because +DMG (and +STR) is better the lower the damage of your weapon and gradually becomes worse as it becomes higher, but Attack maintains the same returns (roughly speaking).

Jugg is an off hand axe.

Most people knock it when some one is using it in the main hand. But as Raen says, there are arguably better off hand axes.

But some would say that dual axes don't really have a use. If you are /NIN you would probably be better off using man/joy, man/ridill or ridill/joy.

He is a BST you silly cat.

Alot of it has to do with the fact that bst and war get alot of decent multi hit weapons to offhand. Joy toy (I know not for bst), ridill, temp, kinship axe, or the trial one. Well and kclub I guess

Punisher/Temp Axe would be interesting for BST Primal rend spam to be completely honest

Woops

Go ME! Way to read the OP.... Go:


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Yea, this has been the biggest debate in years in fact. However it really comes down to your preference and how often you'll use dual axes and whatnot.

Granted, at the time I was new to the game the Juggernaught was the most single goal I wanted for my Warrior since it was the first job I levled to 75. Beforehand I had both the maneater and woodvilles and I loved the combination. When I finally got the Juggy I didn't quite see too much of a difference.

The Juggy IS worthy of a offhand as opposed to using it on main which I don't use at all because of the delay on it. Also you have to take into effect that STR is a cruial factor for warrior all around and with the various races it does show in damage so in cases where if you're not Elvaan>Galka you'll need all the STR you can get of course.

To sum up Juggy is ok but wood/maneter is just as good too; even if you dont have the gil for the juggy or just don't wanna use it its not the end of the world either. Because I admit there are times where I would want to go back to that set up and sell my Juggy. That's just my opinion is all.

Not like it would matter which one you mainhanded then. There is always Fendoir if you don't have sea.

All is forgiven with pics of cat.

And lol at Fendoir... would work well in Primal Rend set but I was just laughing at the fact that it has such small DMG at level 69 yet Soboro at level 50 which is TRIPLE attack is supposedly A-OK to SE. So weird.

SE learned there lesson. They always be taking ***back after the fact like that.

For ages I used woodville main and maneater off. Everyone kept saying "Oh you need a juggie offhand" so i got one.

(ouch btw, i think i was the last dumbass to pay near a mil for mine)

Here's the root of my dilemna...I am frozen on all missions...I have soloed... soloed... soloed...a duo here, a trio there and now i cannot advance anymore without help...tried and tried and failed and failed...so i gotta suck it up now.

On basty nation missions...i can't solo the 4 quadav's for 7-2...tried twice and fail...had a mnk try to help and we failed

I am stuck on frags for zilarts...i cant beat the weapons in behemoths dominion...they ate me twice.

Promy's...dont go there...I just suck...i need mea and holla

Toau...I need Back coffin and guess what...I cant solo that either...which really sucks cause ti think bst should be able to solo anything

I hate that I cant do this stuff solo...i can damn near beat anything as bst/whm or bst/nin but I can't beat these...so this is the root of my problem. I want to move into endgame ***, but i am stuck and I am hoping that understanding my gear better will help me Beast thru these things...

You're going to have to deal with a lot of negative stigma as a BST I'm afraid :x always going to be challenging. My sister is a BST main though and she managed to get through everything but you do have to be willing to put your neck out and organise things yourself. Your damage can be very respectable if geared properly.

2005 called, it wants it's dual wield warriors back...

The OP is a BST.

Thank you, come again.

Not to mention that Dual Wield is still very strong on WAR in the right kind of situation :p underrated!