Nanatsusayanotachi's Potential

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Nanatsusayanotachi's Potential
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 Siren.Itachi
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By Siren.Itachi 2010-05-15 07:46:31
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This weapon can 6hit easily and possibly 5 hit, or even 4 hit, every other round. Before you call me crazy let me introduce you to the potential of this weapon.

I did the math, because i was bored im not even a sam, using the formulas from wiki. Without any Store TP the base tp of this weapon is 10.7. When adding trait+merits(35)+Askar body(5)+Usukane feet(7)+Brutal(1)+Rajas(5)+Hachi hnds(8)+Rose strap(4) the TP raises to 17.6 a hit, 17.6*6=105.6(6 hit). Provided you have capped Ishikoten merits, if you miss even once you're second swing will have +35acc(zanshin) and will give a 32.6 tp,17.6+15(Ishikoten), making this weapon a 5 hit, (17.6*5)+15=103. All the gear mentioned is not impossible to attain, other than the GK itself, and you only sacrifice 3% haste for a potential 5 hit. If you miss twice but land both Ishikoten Zanshin attacks you just got a 4 hit!(17.6*4)+30=100.4.

With Zanshin giving 35 acc and being a 100% proc with this weapon, sam's can go all out without fear of missin. Can eat pure attack food and use Walahara Turban over ace's helm. Sure the weapon is hard to attain but with the right setup it can surpass the almighty hagun with even more weaponskill spam and rarely "missing a complete swing." So do not take this weapon lightly.
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 Bismarck.Dracondria
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By Bismarck.Dracondria 2010-05-15 07:50:57
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It's crap.
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 Asura.Daleterrence
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By Asura.Daleterrence 2010-05-15 07:52:26
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It's name is too long for most Samurai to even remember, let alone pronounce.
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 Shiva.Flionheart
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By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-05-15 08:04:58
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Siren.Itachi said:
This weapon can 6hit easily and possibly 5 hit, or even 4 hit, every other round. Before you call me crazy let me introduce you to the potential of this weapon.

I did the math, because i was bored im not even a sam, using the formulas from wiki. Without any Store TP the base tp of this weapon is 10.7. When adding trait+merits(35)+Askar body(5)+Usukane feet(7)+Brutal(1)+Rajas(5)+Hachi hnds(8)+Rose strap(4) the TP raises to 17.6 a hit, 17.6*6=105.6(6 hit). Provided you have capped Ishikoten merits, if you miss even once you're second swing will have +35acc(zanshin) and will give a 32.6 tp,17.6+15(Ishikoten), making this weapon a 5 hit, (17.6*5)+15=103. All the gear mentioned is not impossible to attain, other than the GK itself, and you only sacrifice 3% haste for a potential 5 hit. If you miss twice but land both Ishikoten Zanshin attacks you just got a 4 hit!(17.6*4)+30=100.4.

With Zanshin giving 35 acc and being a 100% proc with this weapon, sam's can go all out without fear of missin. Can eat pure attack food and use Walahara Turban over ace's helm. Sure the weapon is hard to attain but with the right setup it can surpass the almighty hagun with even more weaponskill spam and rarely "missing a complete swing." So do not take this weapon lightly.

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 Siren.Itachi
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By Siren.Itachi 2010-05-15 08:23:24
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lol very funny Flionheart. But you wouldn't want to sacrifice shikoyo and/or blade bash for a 5hit or 4hit?
Bismarck.Dracondria said:
It's crap.
and Dracondria i can obviously tell already you're a hagun loyalist so unless you back it up with some stats or info.. You're statement is crap.
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 Sylph.Tigerwoods
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2010-05-15 08:33:06
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Zanshin can't proc on rounds that had a DA proc is one downside. You only get a 4hit build "sometimes" and as a 5hit it doesn't beat any of the higher end gkts. It's ws dmg will be rather shitty as compared to other gkts and zanshin is already a 45% proc rate, so this is more of a 55% increase in zanshin proccage than anything else.
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 Carbuncle.Axle
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By Carbuncle.Axle 2010-05-15 08:36:24
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Gear to miss. Ya that's gonna work. Zanshin isn't a 100% hit, its still based on your acc.

Your gonna tp slower cause you don't have 95% acc.
Would rather have a 6 hit and hit 95% then a 5 possibly 4 and hit 80%.
 Asura.Daleterrence
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By Asura.Daleterrence 2010-05-15 08:40:52
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In all seriousness, that thing has a hefty price tag for something you will setup your gear to miss for.
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By Yuffy 2010-05-15 08:47:56
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If delay was 450-480 and base DMG at least had +10 it would be an other story but as it is, its a just a very bad toy.
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 Siren.Itachi
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By Siren.Itachi 2010-05-15 08:55:49
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@Axle, You aren't gearing to miss. What i see a sam using Nanatsusaya wearing while tping is as follows:

Strap:Rose strap
Ammo: doesn't matter much but that store tp+2 one would be nice
Head:W. Turban
Neck:PCC or justice
Ears:Brutal and Bushi combo, or Bushi and wyvern earring if sub drg
Body: Askar
Hands:Hachiman
Rings: Rajas and w/e acc ring(blood, ulthalam's, sniper's, etc)
Back: Cuchulain's or forager's
WAist: swift or v belt
legs: B. Haidate
Feet: Usukane

So you arent gearing to miss. and with the acc from zanshin it more than makes up for the loss of acc from using askar over hauby. With drg sub haste is @21 with swift or 23 with v belt AND you have a nice 5 or 4 hit chance plus jumps and acc bonus.


@Tigerwoods, subbing /nin or /drg Sam will have a 7% chance of double attacking over Zanshin. Either procing isn't bad.

@DAleterrance, I'm not saying pay 50mil or w/e a crazy nut is charging for that thing, but with the level cap increase coming soon I'm sure we'll be able to take down PW no problems and we'll see more Nanatsusayas droppin for ppl.
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 Carbuncle.Axle
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By Carbuncle.Axle 2010-05-15 08:56:48
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Yuffy said:
If delay was 450-480 and base DMG at least had 10 it would be an other story but as it is, its a just a very bad toy.

ya, 420 delay, and +2 dmg over hagun will never win.

Better off getting trials of magians, OAT or high dmg.
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 Sylph.Tigerwoods
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2010-05-15 08:59:32
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Subbing nin isn't good for like 95% of the situations you'll encounter. /drg will be best for pure DD, but also keep in mind sam makes a formidable tank. You'll be on /war a lot if your sam brings versatility. As for either proccing not being bad, zanshin won't proc when DA does and DA doesn't get the acc bonus, so yea it'll screw w/ you when you gear purposely for zanshin procs.

You get jumps on any other gkt btw, I don't see what having jump w/ nana has anything to do with it.

Also, it's WS dmg is going to be crap.
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 Siren.Itachi
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By Siren.Itachi 2010-05-15 09:05:05
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@Tigerwoods, What im trying to explain here is that a sam/drg having Nanatsusaya will have an insane hit rate. And how much damage you sacrifice using Nanatsusaya over hagun let's be real like 200-300? I don't have the exact numbers but a Nanatsusaya sam will be Weaponskilling atleast twice as fast a hagun sam with the gear set i have in mind. And if you sub drg use usu body instead of askar and wyvern earring instead of brutal you can take double attack completely out of the equation. that should put a sam over the freaken acc cap.
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 Carbuncle.Axle
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By Carbuncle.Axle 2010-05-15 09:06:52
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Siren.Itachi said:
@Tigerwoods, What im trying to explain here is that a sam/drg having Nanatsusaya will have an insane hit rate. And how much damage you sacrifice using Nanatsusaya over hagun let's be real like 200-300? I don't have the exact numbers but a Nanatsusaya sam will be Weaponskilling atleast twice as fast a hagun sam with the gear set i have in mind. And if you sub drg use usu body instead of askar and wyvern earring instead of brutal you can take double attack completely out of the equation. that should put a sam over the freaken acc cap.
 Sylph.Tigerwoods
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2010-05-15 09:07:07
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You wouldn't use wyvern earring instead of brutal. You'd use wyvern earring instead of your other ear. Yo uwon't WS "twice as fast" as hagun and you wouldn't use the same gear set, so that is irrelevant. I could take a hagun gearset can easily say that hagun would beat nana w/ that same gearset w/o even doing any math.
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 Sylph.Tigerwoods
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2010-05-15 09:09:01
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Also, if you swap from askar to usu, you gain 18 acc, 9% hirate. This is 9% more often that zanshin won't be proccing at all for your extra tp, since you won't have missed the attack to begin with.
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 Siren.Itachi
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By Siren.Itachi 2010-05-15 09:13:09
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@Tigerwoodz, its fine if you gain 9% acc the intention of using Nanatsusaya is not to proc the Zanshin and gain even more TP, the intention behind it lies in NEVER MISSING! Wouldn't you want to hit theoretically 100% of the time?
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 Carbuncle.Axle
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By Carbuncle.Axle 2010-05-15 09:14:22
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Oh and btw your figuring on 83% acc just to hit your 5 hit setup. At least to get a constant 5 hit you would need that acc. Otherwise its a 6 hit setup.

6 hit hagun > 6 hit nana
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 Siren.Itachi
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By Siren.Itachi 2010-05-15 09:14:53
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Also the freaken bonus of it is, if you do actually miss you have a high *** chance of getting nearly double the TP you'd normally get.
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 Sylph.Tigerwoods
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2010-05-15 09:15:35
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You can't hit 100% of the time, not even theoretically, the proc of zanshin is still bound by the 95% hitrate cap.

And my points still stand, you can't just automatically say the hagun set up has to be the same, because you're excluding stats that are beneficial to the hagun build that you won't be able to use in your build, like dusk gloves(+1), for example.
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 Siren.Itachi
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By Siren.Itachi 2010-05-15 09:17:01
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@Axle
Sorry i should've made it clear from the beginning, the intention of this setup is not completely the 5 hit, its a beautiful bonus though, the intention behind this setup is never missing and when you do BAM 5hit.
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 Sylph.Tigerwoods
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2010-05-15 09:17:12
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And again, w/e bonus you get for 100% zanshin procs, you'll be getting that same bonus 45% of the time, nearly half, for any other gkt.
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 Sylph.Tigerwoods
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2010-05-15 09:17:55
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Siren.Itachi said:
@Axle
Sorry i should've made it clear from the beginning, the intention of this setup is not completely the 5 hit, its a beautiful bonus though, the intention behind this setup is never missing and when you do BAM 5hit.
There's no such thing as never missing, unless you go with a retardily low sample size, like 1 hit or something.
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 Carbuncle.Axle
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By Carbuncle.Axle 2010-05-15 09:18:18
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@ Tiger

A 6 hit hagun wins out over a 6 hit nana right?
His 5 hit needs 83% acc, 4 hit needs 66%. If your hitting 95% your not getting 5 hit or 4 hit much at all.
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 Sylph.Tigerwoods
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2010-05-15 09:20:58
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w/o doing any math at all, 6hit hagun stomps the ***out of it.

As for 5hit, a 5hit rindomaru or pachi would beat a consistent 5hit nana. You'd have to RELIABLY get a 4hit for nana to even stand a chance.
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 Leviathan.Willoflame
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By Leviathan.Willoflame 2010-05-15 09:21:35
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I guess I just don't get it... Zanshin procreates when you miss. Why should you be missing? MY group 2 merits are 5/5 overwhelm, 4/5 Blade Bash, 1/5 Shikikoyo. The blade bash saves my life, the overwhelm makes my damage jump tremendously. I really just don't see the point in meriting Ikishoten because the object for my x-hit build is missing.

That being said... The GKT isn't "bad" in a sense, because of the 100% proc and the +7STR/DEX. And, it looks cool! But it just honestly falls short of the versatility of the Hagun, because you'd be losing your TP bonus :(. Anything with a high DEF, it's probably best to sub THF for a controlled fight, unless you're straight up zerging it. My sam has been known to do 1k+ on Kirin & friends. My acc is pretty good as well, and I would not like to sacrafice my STP build for a "maybe" x-hit build.

So, do I think that this GKT has a use? Maaaaybe.... I'm guessing in a situation when you're /drg with wyvern earring, have double march and haste, and are zerging a super high level mob with high evasion... It may just outdo a Hagun. But, alas, in a zerg you should have x3 brds.

I applaud you for your math but I don't think that the time is right for the samurai community to accept this GKT into their ranks.
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 Carbuncle.Axle
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By Carbuncle.Axle 2010-05-15 09:22:42
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well 95% acc, you get 5% of hit with possible zanshin. So you have a 5% chance of a 5 hit, and like 1% chance of 4 hit. Pretty sure having a 5 hit 5% of the time doesn't trump tp bonus.
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 Siren.Itachi
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By Siren.Itachi 2010-05-15 09:23:36
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Yes you technically cannot ever achieve 100% acc. But the miss to proc zanshin will count towards the mandatory 5% miss therefor making a loophole around it and increasing it past 95% hard cap acc.

And I never said hagun users couldnt use the same build gear wise or merit wise, or even add dusk gloves making them hit 3%ish more haste then the Nanatsusaya build. I'm just saying the Nanatsusaya build has higher hit rate compared to hagun therefor leading to more WS's. Even Zanshin can proc on WS's.
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 Sylph.Vincentius
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By Sylph.Vincentius 2010-05-15 09:23:42
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This thing's been shown to be poop many times. How do these threads still come up?

OP already demonstrated they don't like Hagun, but that's a pretty piss poor justification for being different. Remember, being different doesn't mean it's better.


edit- If Zanshin procs on a WS, I'd assume it would have the same effect as a Double attack, and not hit for ***. Go ahead and do this if you want OP, but you're changing nobody's mind. (Except the idiots who love to be different)
 Siren.Itachi
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By Siren.Itachi 2010-05-15 09:25:54
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@Willoflame,
You don't have to sacrifice Overwhelm at all. Only Shiki and blade bash. but god knows there are plenty of other sams to fill the void of one less shiki spammer and plenty of other jobs that can stun effectively.
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